SR540Beaver

John, Just one? I thought we had a number of members who don't like the current program.

Worry? i seldom got the chance as I often went to camp in my ASM role. This summer it is more about missing him. He is our only child and we are used to having him around. This summer he got out of school on May 24 and reported for staff week for Cub resident camp two days later. He was home for about 19 to 20 hours on the weekend. He left there and went to Philmont two days later. After Philmont, he was home for about five days before going to staff NYLT. He finally comes home for good tomorrow afternoon. We are proud of how he has spent his summer, but we are ready for him to be home. I never worried, but I've missed him like crazy. Out only contact has been thru late night text messages if/when he could get a signal. Oh, and washing at camp? Yes, our troop uses the bucket method mid-week.

Oh and BTW, I don't have an issue with the patch. It incorporates the 100th logo that was chosen from youth submitted designs in a contest.

Lisa, I don't know whether it is true or not. I know we are in the same boat as you. I went as an ASM with one of our Council contingent troops in 2005. Upon returning, we basically all wrote up a best practices document, combined them and gave them to the council in the final meeting of the adult leadership. We had 4 troops and ended up having to give up one because we couldn't recruit enough boys. There were two factors. One was the $1900 price tag and the other was the council dragged their feet on getting the whole process going. Here it is 2008 and National already has the online reservation pice in place. In looking around the internet, other councils have already determined their adult leadership and youth recruitment has begun. Our council.....chirping crikets....nothing, zip, nada. I understand that a committee chair has been selected and he is recruiting members, but that is about it. I only know tht much because I know someone in the know about those kinds of things. I'm guessing that with gas costs as high as they are now with no end in sight, the cost could be $2300 to $2500 for the 2010 Jamboree. If you try to make it as painless as possible, you try to keep montly payments at $100. That means you needed to be recruiting back at the beginning of the year or spring at the latest. As it stands now, I don't think they will start taking applications for adult leadership until this fall at the earliest and they won't begin promotion or recruiting until the adult leadership has been selected. They are only hurting themselves by not getting ahead of the curve like we told them to do. I do know of a friend of mine who signed his son up the first day that online reservations began. A day or two later he went into the council office and asked them about it and all he got was deer in the headlight stares and a lot of stuttering and stamering. He still has not received an answer. I know my comments sound extremely negative, but I really do like my council, the professionals and all they do for us. But geez folks, this isn't rocket science. We don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Gern, thanks for the laugh. I delivered my son and two other staffers to camp Friday evening so they can get set up for our course beginning today. I can't wait till next Saturday when he gets home to hear all about it.

Rooster, Salvation does not make a person "good". It makes them forgiven and "sinless" before God. Free will still exists and even with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, a person can choose wrong over right.

Pack, LOL Thanks for your concern. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

The funny thing is that many organizations continue to do fundraisers, but now discourage going door to door due to safety concerns. They instead want kids to target family and family friends and mom and dad to sell at work. Of course, many companies now ban fundraising in the work place and grandparents and aunts and uncles get tired of constantly being hit up for scouts, school, sports, band, etc. The old door to door is still the best bet because you don't wear out your customer base as much.........unless you are hitting them every week with a different organization.

Pack old buddy, I guess things are relative. I already said it once, but I'll say it again. The moderation done here is like a knat landing on you compared to the elephant of other forums. I witnessed what was close to a meltdown by a mod over at Hannity.com this week. They have all sorts of "civility rules" (read PC) which is kind of funny considering that Hannity is such a defender of free speech, accuses liberals of wanting to bring back the fairness doctrine to silence him and can be downright uncivil himself. But the name of the game there is to protect his reputation and not allow any of the posters to post something that can be used against him in a guilt by association attack. Jesse Helms died this week and some folks spoke up about what they thought about him rather than paying their respects. One of the mods had enough and started banning or giving lengthy timeouts to people who had 5 digit post counts and years of posting. Anything said against the military, Hannity, one of his friends or affiliates or the mods can get you booted. It honestly is a great board, but unfortunately they have decided to create one rule which begats another rule which begats yet another rule. Sometimes the most entertaining section of the forum is the mod forum to watch all the grown ups ratting each other out. Around here, just like in a troop, it seems that the best way to do things is to ask everyone to use the oath and law instead of create a litany of rules that constantly have to be modified for each new situation that comes up. Just like in a troop, you occasionally have the poster who steps outside the oath and law and it is determined that "something" needs to be done to rectify the situation. What you see as heavy handed isn't even a slap on the wrist compared to other places I go. All I'm suggesting is that you look at the big picture and think of what it could be like if we created a bunch of rules. I can almost guarantee you that you would like it even less. Now take that and 25 cents and get yourself a cup of coffee.

I came back to edit and/or delete my post, but for some reason I don't have an edit icon available. My apologies for my un-scoutlike comments. I've grown tired of all the macho, he-man, I'm better than you are scouters who like to accuse many of the dedicated and trained folks here of not being the real deal because we don't practice scouting as it was at the turn of the 20th century. Perhaps I just need to take a break and concentrate on my actual scouting responsibilities. Again, my apologies for my comments. If a nice mod would like to delete these two posts, I'd be more than happy to see them gone.

I propose a third split. One for the arrogant he-men who are uber-scouters. I've never taken a fan to camp and I never will. I know a number of scouters with cpap machines who need the electricity. There can be other health related issues where having electricity in camp is beneficial. There are times when having electricity in a campsite can be useful for maintenance work. There is nothing wrong with having electricity in a campsite unless you have people trying to run laptops, refrigerators, stereos, TV's and game consoles. I don't think anyone here has suggested such. If folks want to go into the wilderness in a loin cloth armed with their wits and a flint knife, more power to them. Last time I checked, that has little to do with the purpose of scouting. I'm sure there were people who complained when they actually brought potable water into campsites and you didn't have to carry it from a stagnant pond and boil it. Scouting seemed to survive that and it will survive other modern conventions as well. Times change and if scouting doesn't make minor adjustments here and there, it will be relegated to a museum display in fairly short order.

True Bob, they chose to stay there. Why? Because you can't have a unit without a CO. Because unit 123 has existed there for 50 years and that is where dad, uncles, cousins and brothers attended. Because other organizations might not want to charter. Because there are trailers, equipment, finances, etc. involved. You know as well as I do that there are minimum requirements of what a CO must provide and that is all some are interested in providing. Would it be better to have a CO that supports you enthusiastically? Well sure it would. Only a fool would want it differently. But you don't throw out the baby with the bath water. If you have a successful long term unit with a proud history and tradition, you don't just fold up shop because your CO only wants to be bothered once a year to sign the charter. You make lemonade with the lemon. Truth is, many CO's know they own the troop, but they want someone else to run it, so they let it be self sustaining. I've been in both situations and in between too. The volunteers were the folks who cared the most, got the training, followed the program and it really didn't matter how involved the CO chose to be. We were the ones making it happen and we were always very inviting and seeking them, even when they didn't seem to desire it equally.

Bob, With all due respect, there are countless CO's who want to have their cake and eat it to. They like having a feather in their cap by owning a unit, but they totally abdicate any resposibility to warm bodies willing to operate it. To many of them, supplying a meeting place and signing the annual charter is as far as they want to be involved. Strange I know, but that is the reality that many volunteers are used to regardless of what the model is supposed to be. When the volunteers make an effort to create some connection and build a more meaningful relationship, they are rejected. Use our space, do your thing, but don't ask for more. Many successful programs have existed under such conditions. The CO isn' hostile to you being there, they simply want you to run it and leave them alone except for what they need to sign once a year. I hear you that it is their program and they should want more out of it, but many don't. As for the DE getting involved, it all depends on whether or not they have met their FOS goal as to whether they have time to get involved. Sometimes operating a unit is a lonely proposition, but the only way to keep moving forward.

Nope. Vehicles other than service vehicles are only allowed in to load or unload on opening and closing day. Even then they are regulated as to how many can be in at one time.

Actually.........yes. Our council has not done a capital campaign in years and it really showed in our camp properties. Our three main properties are in the process this summer of building new flush latrine and hot shower facilities per the current specs from national. They have individual showers on one side and individual toilets on the other with locking doors with a central maintenance hallway down the middle. There are handicapped facilities as well as a laundry room. The ceiling is a metal mesh with exhaust fans in the eaves for air flow. Of course if you don't want to hike to one of them, you can still use the campsite latrine.

This is one manly man who does not enjoy lying in a pool of sweat. I've done it plenty as I rarely miss an outing and I am one of those guys who can sweat in a snow storm.........literally. fyi, many camps now provide electrical service in the campsites. I've been to two camps that do, but they are in forested locations with high heat and humidity.

"Good lord! Can you spell parlour scouts? Sheesh! Just open the flaps and you'll get a nice breeze through the tent." Depends entirely on where you are camping. I recall the 98 degree nights with 98% humidity at the 2005 Jamboree. There was no where to run an extension cord from, but I would have killed for a fan. Instead I just lay in a pool of my own sweat most nights......with the doors on both ends tied completely back. Been to summer camp in Arkansas where it was much the same. The rolling hills and tall pines and hardwoods don't allow much of a breeze.

Canvas. I have nothing against it....much. The smell takes me back to the 60's as a kid and our family camping trips. I remember that it was so hot that we kids always dragged our cots out under the stars instead of sleep in the hot stuffy tent. We only slept in it if it rained and then it leaked anywhere it got touched. Since then and advancing to quick, easy, light, dependable synthetic tents, I've still spent my share of time in canvas at WB, summer camps and Jamboree. There is nothing more impressive than a row of nicely pitched wall tents and dining flys at a Jamboree. Of course, most contingent troops struggle for hours and still don't get them set up right, so they look terrible. Then it rains and you have to tighten them. Then the sun comes out and you have to loosen them. Everyone has to be careful where they walk so they are not tripping over the sea ofguy lines and tent stakes. The one thing all 3 of the Jambo SM's and the 9 ASM's agreed on as a note for next Jambo was to ditch the canvas wall tents and go with the fast and light dome tents. Even after having practice sessions at the contingent troop meetings and 2 shakedowns, the boys spent most of their first day at Jambo just trying to get all the canvas strung up. The dome folks were set up in an hour and out experiencing a Jamboree. I like canvas just like I like my old turntable and vinyl albums, but I love my iPod and digital music more.

Nessmuk, Just for fun, lets pretend that the BSA came to you and admitted that their training program stunk and they wanted you to revamp it. What would you do?

""As an example. There is nothing in the BSA that says the scout should say "I am working on my Eagle rank can I do a project for you?" He could just as easily learn to say "as a Boy Scout I have learned the importance of "service to others" I have also learned many good leadership skills. I would like to help your organization be leading a service project on your behalf. What kinds of things do you need done that I could organize and take care of for you?" Yes, perhaps in Pleasantville that could indeed happen and it possibly has here in the real world as well. I'll admit Bob that you have been involved in scouting much longer than me. However, in all my experience with the numerous childhood friends who earned Eagle as well as my experience within our large troop and our district, I've yet to hear of a boy who does not tell the organization why he is doing the project. He is doing it to earn his Eagle rank in the Boy Scouts of America and as part of the requirement, he is doing it for an organization outside the scouting sphere. The boy himself is involved in a scouting (rank advancement) activity even if everyone else involved in the project is not. Most know why he is doing it and many who might not normally participate do so to assist the boy in earning Eagle. Bob, you are splitting philosophical and semantic hairs.

Our wise founding fathers were fortunately smart enough to realize what a sticky wicket it is when you start trying to combine politcs and religion. It has always been a recipe for disaster and always will be. At least that is my view as an evangelical Southern Baptist Christian.

Bob, I have no qualms saying that it is outside the sphere of scouting. At the same time, I realize that the benefitting organization realizes that the boy is serving them in order to earn his Eagle or that the boy is doing the project to both benefit the organization as well as to earn his Eagle as approved by the district. It is a scoting related activity for the boy done outside of scouting.

BP, With all due respect, grow up. All of this wailing and gnashing of teeth over the "heavy handed" moderation here by some is laughable. If you want to see heavy handed moderation, go to Hannity.com and visit the talk to the moderator forum where the mod staff has been painted into a PC corner with all sorts of arcane rules brought on by the need to protect Hannity from the same kind of guilt by association attacks he employees as well as all of the whining by thin skinned posters. For gosh sakes folks, it is just the internet. Take a break and go for a walk. Cool off.

An Eagle project is not a scouting activity except that it is a rank requirement and the rank can not be earned without doing it. Perhaps we can call it a scouting "related" activity.

In case you are not aware, you can click on the link above called "Headlines" to get scout related news.