SR540Beaver

Rooster, Poll results are like the wind....one day it blows this way and the next day it blows that way. Let me ask you a question, in an event like Pearl Harbor or 9/11, don't you think almost any president would have the support and backing of the American people? I think his huge support is more a response to the event than to his abilities. Clinton always enjoyed high approval ratings even in the midst of his scandels. Imagine what the ratings would have been following an event like 9/11. The people have to rally around someone and look to their leadership in times of trouble. In an event like this, it naturally is the President. Had 9/11 not happened, do you honestly think his dismal approval ratings would have climbed to their current numbers?

Rooster, I'm not against Bush (I voted on him as the lesser of two evils), just trying to be honest. His Presidency was determined by the Supreme Court. He lost the popular vote and won the Electoral vote. But the win was with questionable election results. Those are the pure no spin facts of the matter. A mandate is when you carry 80 or 90% of the vote. Not 50%. Keep in mind that the Congress is almost balanced at 49% vs 51%. The nations view point is split down the middle. There is no mandate for anyone. Simply a mid-term election cycle that barely tipped the scale of Congress by a mere percent or so. BTW, I was a McCain man.

I don't know and I don't want to know. There are many stripes of Baptists in the world and I just hope (and doubt) they are not Southern Baptist like myself. Christians need to be honest, but not brutal. We've all recently seen the results of radicalism. As my mom always said, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Amen! I'm glad my glass is half full.

I certainly hopes he wears sequined suits with pearl snap buttons like the old movie serial cowboy stars! LOL

I can understand not wanting to ruin a relationship with the local troop, but it sounds kind of one-sided. Troops are no different than churches, colleges or even datable girls. It is all in what they have to offer that makes them attractive. If they show no interest in you, why should you be interested in them? I for one want my son to go to a troop he will enjoy....but also to one that is properly run and provides the best program. If that isn't the one who just expects the kids to come to them automatically, too bad. They should have a desirable program and put forth some interest early on.

MK, Thanks for the input. We live in Oklahoma City, so there are many many troops to choose from in the metropolitan area. I've already got my eye on one troop where some of my friends became Eagles some 25 years ago. I've looked at their website a number of ties and it professes to use the patrol method and does camping trips every month of the year. Their website is very imformative and explains how they are organized and the methods they use. So far (at least in what they put on their website) they seem to follow a very traditional boy led patrol method. I know not to judge a book by it's cover and that real visits will be needed to make sure it is the real deal. Plus, i plan on us doing the same with a number of troops. The decision will be my son's...with a little valuable input from dear old dad.

I have a question that I probably already know the answer to. My son is a Webelos 1 right now. Is it too early for me to start checking into troops? I realize he won't move to Webelos 2 until this coming summer and then on to Scouts around Feb. 2004, but is it ever too early to gather info about troops for the future? After all many kids and parents start looking towards colleges early in high school to give themsleves plenty of time for weighing the pros and cons of each school. I don't have a lot of faith in our Pack's organizational skills and don't want to get down to a month or so before the transition and have someone say, "here are 2 troops you might want to check into".

Redskins??? Is that a high school or college team somewhere? I'm not sure I've heard of them before. KWC57.....an Okie and Dallas fan.

OGE, I did a search on Google using just her name and got a lot of hits. Here is one site that has a lot of info: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about/thisispp/sanger.html It had some good and some bad things to say about her views.

OGE, I have to disagree with you on spanking. My parents are two of the most wonderful, loving, caring and Godly people you could find on this planet. My respect and admiration for them is endless. (I am 45 years old.) My dad was a very patient man and slow to anger. He would give you several warnings when you were doing something against the rules. If you were stupid enough to keep doing waht you were told not to, off came the belt. My dad was a Marine vet from WWII and knew the meaning of the word commitment. Once the belt came off, he intended to use it. I can honestly say that I deserved every spanking I got....and they were not that many. And they left a lasting impression on me. Not that it was OK to hit others, but that authority was to be respected and submitted to. Even though I was spanked as a child, I have never once in my entire life raised my hand to another person. Not once. I've never been in a fight. Most of my friends were raised the same way. Having a 9 year old son who is being raised in an environment where spanking is practically taboo, I can see a huge difference in the behavior of kids of my day and the kids of today. There is much less respect for authority. I have to remind my son a lot that our family is not a democracy and he does not always get a vote. In one ear and out the other. The few times he has had a swat or spanking, he acted so much better for a much longer time than when I try to follow all of the politically correct child psychology mumbo jumbo of today. We are setting our kids up for a huge fall in adulthood with sports where scores are not kept and events where everyone gets a participation aaward. Kids need discipline and loss and failure in their lives just as much as they need a warm hug and winning. Real life has ups and downs and we protect them from it to their detriment. The crap they can get away with today is not going to fly with their employer someday and they will be shocked that the boss wasn't concerned about their self esteem.

Ed, The room in question was a Sunday School room that I would guess to be 12 ft x 20 ft. The number of people in the room varied. We had 9 boys there that night with 5 in our room working on Cristmas songs and 4 in the other room. Eventually, they all came back together. While we were split up, there were 4 adults besides myself in our room. The other room had 3 adults. One of the Dad's was playing his guitar and all eyes were pretty much on him and the boys singing. Being 9 year old boys, they never really quit moving and were up and down, in chairs, on the floor, etc. The cards were not visible where I put them. Since all of the boys had seen the cards of the 3 or 4 boys who brought them prior to the meeting, whoever took them knew who had cards and who didn't. One of the boys put his cards back in his shirt pocket. One of the other boys had his in the pocket of his coat he never took off. Although he kept taking them out and messing with them thru the meeting. Whoever the person was who took them, they saw my son hand them to me when they were told to put them away for the meeting and saw where I put them. When I was out of the room and everyone was paying attention to the guitarist, the person took the chance and snatched them. All it would take is sitting down in the chair next to the coat and waiting until no one was watching. All of the boys had their backs to the chair and the guitarist was watching his guitar. Where he hid them, I don't know. He could have slid them inside his shirt or down his pants. An appeal was made for their return several times, but we obviously were not going to do a strip search. They are gone and they can be replaced. Again, my whole point of posting was to point out that the incident drove home the point of the Scout Oath and Law to my son. He connected the dots on his own by knowing what the Oath and Law is and means and applying it to the situation. I'm proud that he understands them and tries to apply them in his young life.

Acco, I agree with most of what you said. Let me clarify a few points. While I stated my opinion that the cards were stolen, that is not what I privately voiced to the den leader. I told her that they were not where I had put them and were missing. I had no control or idea how she would approach it. She did not use the word stolen either. She did say that we needed to hunt for them and if someone had them, they needed to return them. I don't remember her exact words, but basically she was not too happy and got her message across. I agree, there probably was a better way to state it. The Cub Master took the better approach of not sounding accusatory and suggesting that maybe some one picked them up and forgot to put them back, let's check one more time. He did give them an out. This wasn't a case of them being "stolen" in the eyes of a child who misplaced them. I hid them from sight specifically to keep anyone from being tempted from even looking at them instead of paying attention in the meeting. Whoever took them, spotted me putting them in my sons coat hood and covering them up. The coat had not been disturbed in any way. Someone simply slid their hand in and put them in another hiding place. The boys were on the opposite side of a Sunday School room from where I was sitting and were milling around one of the Dad's playing his guitar prepping them for Christmas Carols. They waited until I left the room to make their move and uncover them. They could have walked over and asked to see them if they just wanted a look. They WERE stolen. I'll be the first to say that the boys shouldn't bring things like that to a den meeting and my son will tell you that he never will again. My whole point to my post was that no matter how hard we try to impart the Scouting way to kids, a few don't get it, but overall it sinks in pretty good with the majority. I agree that 9 year olds are still learning finer points of right and wrong, but the vast majority of 9 year olds know that taking something that belongs to someone else is stealing and it is wrong. Otherwise, they wouldn't hide their actions.

NJCub, Gay or not, he is a pedophile. We only know that he exposed himself to the boys which would lead some to believe he is a gay pedophile. He may have done the same thing to girls at a different setting or time and was just never called on it. Regardless of what his gender preference is, he is a pedophile. The background checks are not any kind of guarantee and are not meant to be. They are just another tool to help in trying to prevent people like this from becoming BSA leaders. Many people who commit sexual crimes do so for years before they are caught. While he may have passed a background check with flying colors 2, 4, 6 or more years ago, he won't anymore. The background check will only help once he has actually been caught which unfortunately means that someone has to be a victim. But since none of us can see the future, it is the best we can do.

NJCub, If they are gay, they are not qualified leaders. I can't fault the United Way. The are a private organization just like the BSA and can decide who to fund based on their criteria, just as the BSA can decide who to admit based on their criteria. However, as I said before, my support will go to BSA and not United Way because I believe in BSA's program and I disapprove of some of the United Ways organization's programs. I don't like giving to a blanket charity no matter how effecient it is to run such an organization. I prefer to pick and chose who my money goes to.

My son is a 9 year old Webelos 1. He is at that age where some of lifes hard lessons are being learned. We had our den meeting last night and as usual, a number of the boys brought their Yu Gi Oh cards to compare and trade prior to the meeting. Not something that I really like, but accepted since they have to be put away when the meeting starts. My son handed them to me which I put in the hood of his coat and set in the chair next to me. I left the room for about 2 minutes and then came back and set down next to his coat again. I reached over to rearrange his coat and the cards were gone. I checked the floor under the chair. No cards. I went thru his coat pockets and mine and checked the floor again. Numerous times. Unbelievably, a Scout had stolen them. When I put them in the hood of his coat, I pushed them deep inside and pushed the hood closed where they were not visible. Since we were about 10 minutes from the meeting being over and snack time was approaching, I told the den leader. She promptly announced that my son's cards had been taken and we needed to search the room or who ever had them needed to give them back. Everyone including the parents looked. No cards. Before we left, the Cub Master stood up and said, "hey guys, we need to find these cards. I'm going to check all of my pockets, how about you do it too." No cards. We had to leave without them. I told my son how sorry I was that they were taken and that he had learned a valubalr lesson about how some people will be dishonest and how you need to take precations with your possessions. I told him that he had done nothing wrong, but that he really didn't need to take his cards to a den meeting where they might tempt someone to take them. He was upset, but handled it in a mature manner and only teared up once. My proudest moment was on the way home. He said, "you know Dad, whoever took them was not being a good Scout and isn't following the Scout Oath and Law. Scouts are supposed to be honest and trustworthy." I smiled and told him he was exactly correct. It is nice to know that the example we set at home and the lessons we teach them thru Scouting does sink in for most of them. It is just sad that he had to learn a hard lesson of how poorly some people conduct themselves at a Scout meeting.

Bob White, Glad to see you back. I had noticed recently that you were not around and was worried. Hope you were just out for the holidays.

Hey Eisley, congrats!!! You just hit your 1,000th post! (This message has been edited by kwc57)

While the United Way funds many worthy causes, I don't agree with all of the organizations they fund. I decided long ago to quit donating to the United Way thru my employer. I used to work for a company that took great pride in having 100% participation in the drive. They would have a representative come and put on a dog and pony show complete with refreshments. If you chose not to participate, someone from Human Resources would pay you a visit to twist your arm. If you still refused, they would donate a dollar in your name so they could say that all employees participated. To them, it was a feather in their cap for PR in the community. To keep from having the visit, I would always make a one time $1 donation. Let me explain a little further. Being a Christian and active in my church, I am a tither and also give to many other charities of my choosing. Because of that, I didn't feel bad in deciding to take a stand in not donating to the United Way. I don't want the good programs to suffer, but I won't fund Planned Parenthood pushing abortion or gay rights organizations. I'm glad to see the local leadership in this town choose to take a stand with the Scouts and raise funding for them since the United Way won't. Bravo!

Here is an interesting article addressing those who think we've just about used up the Earth. 46 percent of Earth is still wilderness, researchers report By Paul Rogers Mercury News Despite population growth, logging and other environmental threats, nearly half the land on Earth remains wilderness -- undeveloped and nearly unpopulated, according to a study released today. The study by 200 international scientists, the most comprehensive analysis ever done on Earth's wild places and population trends, was seen by some experts as a surprising cause for optimism. Biologists also viewed it as a warning, since only 7 percent of the wilderness is protected. ``A lot of the planet is still in pretty decent shape,'' said Russell Mittermeier, a Harvard primatologist and president of Conservation International, an environmental group in Washington, D.C., that organized the study. ``We should be happy about that, but we should do everything we can to maintain it. A lot of areas, particularly tropical forests, are under the gun.'' Using databases, computer maps and satellite photos, the study found that 46 percent of the Earth's land can be classified as wilderness -- from the forests of Russia, Canada and Alaska to the Congo, the Amazon, the Sahara and New Guinea. That area, totaling 68 million square kilometers -- more than seven times the size of the United States -- is home to only 2.4 percent of world population, or 144 million people. Antarctica and the Arctic tundra make up roughly a third of that wilderness, or 23 million square kilometers. To qualify as wilderness, researchers required areas to have fewer than five people per square kilometer, or 247 acres; at least 70 percent of their original vegetation; and a size of least 10,000 square kilometers, about the equivalent of Yellowstone National Park. The research was done over two years by scientists from such institutions as the World Bank; Cambridge and Harvard universities; Zimbabwe's Biodiversity Foundation for Africa; and the National Amazon Research Institute in Brazil. The results will be published in a 500-page book next year: ``Wilderness: Earth's Last Wild Places,'' by the University of Chicago Press. The study was bankrolled in part by donations from Intel co-founder Gordon Moore, of Woodside, a major donor to Conservation International. The developed world should do more to safeguard wilderness, said Thomas Lovejoy, president of the Heinz Center for Science, Economics and the Environment in Washington, D.C. ``There is also an ethical and moral reason,'' Lovejoy said. ``We are all -- every amoeba, every person, every rhinoceros -- the end point of 4 billion years of evolution. You just don't snuff that out.'' Others noted that civilization's footprint is worldwide. ``There's not a square centimeter on Earth that's not affected by humans and what we produce, from chemicals in the atmosphere to global warming,'' said Peter Raven, director of the Missouri Botanical Garden. ``But this is interesting. It makes the point that there are lots of little-affected areas, more than most people might think.'' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IF YOU'RE INTERESTED To learn more about the study, go to www.conservation.org

Kassie, I've had some confusion on this topic. My son is a Webelos 1. I realize that there is supposed to be a transition in Webelos of getting away from parents signing off and letting the den leader do it. It has been explained to me that this is not a requirement and the leader can allow for parents to sign when they feel it is appropriate. For instance, my son got his Handyman by doing many of the activites at home. They were things like fixing a flat on a bike, washing a car and helping with the yard work. It was kind of a "six of one, half a dozen of the other" type thing. Should I sign them or have him tell the den leader he did them and let her sign? She has no way of knowing whether he did them or not. Our rules are kind of loose. I think the leader would prefer to sign off, but will allow the parent to do it too.

I have to agree with ExperiencedUniforms on getting to know the parents. I think this is the biggest problem I personally have noticed in Cub Scouts. I'm used to sports where we had multiple practices and/or games per week and tournaments on weekends. The parents all got to know each other pretty well. With Scouts, you go to a single one hour den meeting per week full of boys with the heebie jeebies. The den leader has little time if any to spend with the parents. Then you just repeat the whole process the next week. Pack meetings are pretty much the same. Trying to keep the boys interested and impart any info the parents need to know. It is the best time to request help, but when done from the podium it goes in one ear and out the other. there needs to be a time where some team building can occur between the leaders and the parents.

Weekender, Can you name any sin that isn't disobedience or rebellion? They all are.

I believe the Scout Shop sells patch blankets.

Gee, I'd be thrilled to be asked to help our Pack. I know, I know, I should just go tell them I want to. As far as I can tell from the phone list they provided, they already have all spots filled. I never hear a request from our pack for volunteers for leadership positions. Of course there are always the standard requests for helping with the Halloween party and such which I do. I would love to get training and help. My son just started Cubs as a Webelos 1 and Boy Scouts is not too far around the corner. I'd like to get my feet wet now and be active in his Troop throughout his Scout career. I guess I'm no help in answering your question, because I'm willing and you're wanting. From my observations, many parents don't want to help and some leaders are rather shy about asking for help...even though they desparatly want it. I would keep asking during dne and pack meetings over and over. Perhaps taking time at a pack meeting to go over the organizational structure of the pack leadership would help. Let them know how many positions are available and how many are unfilled. Let them know that it is too much for one or two people to do and that if they want a quality unit, some of them are going to have to step up or their sons could be wasting time that could otherwise be a valuable experience.