SR540Beaver

Guys, I've said this a couple of times in other threads and no one has picked up on it. His Mom was his Scout Master. I asked in a thread about who makes up a BOR. The answer I got was that it is basically the Troop Committee and a person from District. If this is true, he got his Eagle because it came thru the people he had been with for years, including his own Mom. They overlooked the duty to God part because they already knew it. Assuming they had a friend at District who set in, he was a shoe-in for his Eagle. I could be wrong, but that is my opinion.

Merlyn, You never addressed the website I listed. It is obvious from what I have found that the government and the military have engaged their substantial legal staff to design documents that spell out their relationship with private organizations. Boy Scouts included. Their legal people seem to have no problem with and seem to even encourage these relationships. Whether courts will agree with their stance is the question. So far, there has not seemed to be a problem. Considering the vast legal resources of the government and the military used in drafting these documents, I imagine

Here is another website regarding logistical support to scouting organizations by the US military. http://www.afmc.wpafb.af.mil/HQ-AFMC/JA/lo/lojaf/ethics/updates/990226.htm

To all concerned, here is what I found thru the US Army's website. It is a 20 page document. http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r210_22.pdf Army Regulation 21022 Private Organizations on Department of the Army Installations 37. Membership practices a. Organizations will not unlawfully deny membership, unlawfully exclude from participation, or otherwise subject to unlawful discrimination, any person because of race, color, creed, sex, disability, or national origin. (When unlawful discrimination by a PO is suspected, information about procedures for individuals to follow

Merlyn>>>Unlawful clauses of contracts aren't enforcable; the military could sign an agreement with an organization to run a "no Jews" youth group, and that wouldn't make it legal, either. You are still confused. The BSA position is clear and well known by the government. They are not being dishonest in signing the contract. The government created the contract with the so-called "unlawful clause". As Bob White said, your beef is with the government, not with the BSA. The BSA position is clear and the contract says the government expects them to adhere to the BSA policies an

willysjeep, Cub Scout camping is family camping. At the very least, a parent or guardian must be present. However, we just went to two council sponsored campouts in October and both were family camping. Many of the activities went towards individual items for achievements. These activities were not limited to the Cub Scout boys. Any brother or sister of any age could participate in the activity. When my son was thru shooting on the BB gun range, one of the instructors asked him to help another Cub's little sister who was having trouble. Different colored beads were given for each a

Merlyn, The military base does not RUN the scouting program. They are the charter organization that sponsors it. While you are busy studying constitutional law, it might be helpful if you also studied how scouting is organized and ran. The charter organization does not run the program. They make provision for others to run it. You never responed to my post pointing out that the agreement you are so taken with also states that the military entity expects the FECBSA to operate the scouting program based on the BSA policies and procedures which includes excluding atheist. Whatever

Here is the agreement between BSA and the military that Merlyn keeps referring to: http://www.cnfj.navy.mil/Admin/instructions/5720.11F%20Instruction.doc Here is an interesting part of the agreement where the military spells out the responsibility of what FECBSA will do: 9. SCOUTING SERVICES. 9. 1. The FECBSA and the USAGSO-WP will: 9.1.1. Develop, guide, and maintain scouting services in all areas identified by the SOC within Japan and Korea. 9.1.2. Subscribe to the purpose, adhere to the policy, and be guided by the standards of the BSA and the GSUSA,

Merlyn, I understand your "stated" argument about the Government's not allowing descrimination based on religion and therefore can not sponsor a Scout unit. However, after viewing a good number of Atheist websites, they all define atheism as the "absense of religion" and that atheism IS NOT a religion. To exclude atheists because the BSA says you must believe in some kind of supreme being to be a member is not descrimination. If they said, "you must beleive in a god to be a member" and then said, "we are all Christians and you can't join because you are Muslim" would be descrimination.

Merlyn, Why would an atheist want to join an organization that values religious principles? Simply to be disruptive? Why should hundreds of thousands of people who formed, joined and support an organization based on certain principles have to change their program to accomodate a single individual who does not support those principles? How would an atheists organization feel if a religious person went to court to force their organization to allow him to join and push his religious agenda within that organization. When the atheist organization holds their monthly potluch dinner, are

Only being exposed to Cub Scouts so far, I do not know the answer to this question. Who makes up an Eagle BOR? The kids Mom was the Scout Master. If it is made up primarily of troop leadership, I can see how he passed it. If the Mom has been involved in the district and is friends with district leadership, again I can see how he possibly passed it as well. I think the makeup of the BOR might have a lot to say about how he passed it even while being honest. It wasn't until he spoke up in a training class full of other scout leaders outside of his troop that he exposed his beliefs to other

Merlyn, The best atheists or gays will probably ever be able to do is stop government entities from chartering BSA units. If that happens, 99.9% of those units will have someone step in almost immediately to start a new charter and they will go on without ever skipping a beat. If your agenda is to get scouts to allow membership to gays and atheists, you will probably never achieve your goal. As a private organization, they can choose their membership. I'm not sure which you want, one or the other or both. One you may accomplish, the other is doubtful. I'm a Southern Bapt

They seem to be somewhat lenient in my son's Webelos den with parental signing. It seems they somewhat use an honor system. Right after my son joined about a 6 weeks ago, there were a number of things around the house that needed to be done. There was some yard work, Mom's car needed washing, a bike had a flat, a lightbulb needed replacing, etc. I showed my son how to do each item and had him physically do them. He earned his Handyman in one afternoon. I signed his book and he took it to his den leader who accepted it with no problem or comment. I even asked the ACM if it was OK to work

Merlyn, Sorry, you're going to have to do better than your reference to Scouting For All. I read it and as I said, this organization has an axe to grind with the BSA. They are the only people I've come across that are claiming these particular coments were made. I watched the atheist scout on TV in several interviews and he himself has never alluded to the comments that S4A is claiming. Plus, S4A's item quotes none other than the authors brother/relative for a spin on scouting and atheism. He really needed to go outside his own family for support of his views. Find me something auth

Merlyn, My company has an internet filter on our network that limits viewing many sites. I can't see the ScoutsForAll site right now, but will check it from home tonight. I will take their press release with a grain of salt however. When I said credible source, I meant a mainstream news organization like the AP or CNN. I've yet to see this comment in any news article. ScoutsForAll is an organization that has a political axe to grind with the BSA, so they will have their own particular spin on the subject that lends itself to suspicion.

Merlyn_LeRoy, Why are you avoiding answering my question. Please provide a credible news link quoting Scmidt making this comment. I'm not saying he didn't, I just can't find anything that said he did. Since you keep using it as an example of BSA thought and policy, I want to be sure it is accurately attributed to the correct person. However, I will again state that even if you can prove the comment came from him, it is his personal opinion, not BSA policy.

Merlyn_LeRoy, Please provide a link to verify that the comment came from Schmidt. I've read every available news story I can find on the internet and even saw the kid of O'Reilly last night. I've never seen this comment in any news story and can't find it using any search engines. The only reference I've found is that their was a difference of opinion between the kid and another "scout leader" during a training class. All of the stories I have found have been consistent on this point. Even if Schmidt did make the comment, it is still his personal opinion and not an official BSA polic

"Anybody that doesn't believe in god isn't a good citizen, and that if an atheist found a wallet on the ground they would pick it up, plunder the money and throw the wallet back on the ground." Let's be honest and clear here. This statement was an opinion made by one Scouter to another during a training course. People need to quit giving the impression that this is an official policy from BSA headquarters. It was one single solitary individual's opinion stated in the heat of an argument betwen two people. Period! To try to make it sound like this is the opinion of the majority of BS

This page http://members.doubleknot.com/Pack4567/about/ScoutingOnSubase/scoutingonsubase.html clearly states "Cub Scouts: Sponsored by the CO of Subase, Capt. Baker" and "Boy Scouts: Sponsored by the PACNORWEST MWR David Della-Rovere"

Red, It means "in my humble opinion".

A quick note! My example was extreme and most people would find it difficult to respect a belief in sex with children....myself included. The example was to make a point that respecting someone's personal convictions is seperate from letting them be included in your membership when that belief is in opposition to your organizations beliefs.

acco40, Respecting someone else's beliefs and denying them membership based on specific qualifications are two different things. Denying membership is not being unfaithful to the part of the oath respecting others beliefs. Someone has the right to believe that it is OK to have sex with children and may be a card carrying member of the Man Boy Love Association (this is a real organization), but while we can respect his heartfelt belief in the practice, we are not going to let him be a Scouter because it is contrary to our values.

acco40, And just what would an atheist's belief be? Not in God. Their "belief" is denying the existence of God. Since Scouting requires a belief in God and an Atheist does not believe in God, it is kind of difficult for an atheist to be a Scout according to the rules. That does not mean that a Scout can not respect the athiest's right to a lack of belief, it just means the athiest can not be a Scout.

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Being a lowly Cub Scouter at this time, let me ask the obvious question for those not in the know. If Scouts don't work on merit badges at their meetings (I realize that much of the work must be done outside the meeting), what do they do in the meetings?