skeptic

Don't you have to have an international letter of some sort to take scouts outside the country? Or is that only required when going places not connected to our borders?

We have our church van listed separately with the church's insurance info. Then annotate to indicate driver(s), their licenses, and their insurance info. Good luck.

Okay. If OGE says it was "overwhelming" to close the thread, so be it. However, I find it particularly odd that the attacks made on myself and others in these threads by a few are allowed, but when a pattern that dates back a long way is verified and pointed out, then it is somehow wrong to point it out. Mr. Westley: (corrected name) I apologize for hurting your feelings. I will try harder to live by the "live and let live" idea that I have tried to follow. More importantly, I will try to do a better job of living the scout law, specifically "friendly", "courteous", "kind", "cheerful", and "reverent (reflected in turning the other cheek in my beliefs, while accepting your right to disbelieve anything)". Mr. Kroh: My name is Wes Fish. You may Google me all you like, as I have nothing to hide, unless you feel liking Rod McKuen is somehow weird, as some do. Sincerely, Skeptic; AKA Wes Fish(This message has been edited by skeptic)(This message has been edited by skeptic)(This message has been edited by skeptic)

http://www.myreader.co.uk/message/1486544.aspx This saga is from back in 2005. Looks like we are not the only recipients of this nonsense. If you do a bit of Googling, you can find numerous similar things in bits and pieces. And very often, our buddy starts calling people liars. Oh well, guess everyone needs a hobby. Just kind of sad that this one is so negative.

Calico; At least in the larger cities, it is the latter. Many stores no longer have real display windows; and few are willing to give up space to a display of something they do not sell. With many larger retailers, the fear of PC backlash is likely a factor too. I know that at least was part of the reason that JCPenney Co. quit selling scout stuff;they got threats from certain groups about boycotts and negative publicity. I worked for them in middle management for years, and inquired directly when I could no longer even get stuff in catalog.

What does most of what you gripe and moan about have to do with scouting? You are NOT a Scouter. And this is the political thread in which you go on and on and on ................ about how persecuted Atheists are. So, answer your own question. Frankly, I just found it amusing to have a major paper actually publish something that points out how insecure and thin skinned the strident few of you are. And, I really could care less what you think or say, as you long ago proved yourself to be everything you keep calling the BSA and people of religious bent. So, have fun ranting.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-allen17-2009may17,0,491082.story Okay, for some reason, the link will not post completely, so cut and paste to include the last part. Some quotes from an L.A. Times Opinion Piece today by Charlotte Allen. "What primarily seems to motivate atheists isn't rationalism but anger -- anger that the world isn't perfect, that someone forced them to go to church as children, that the Bible contains apparent contradictions, that human beings can be hypocrites and commit crimes in the name of faith. The vitriol is extraordinary." "My problem with atheists is their tiresome -- and way old -- insistence that they are being oppressed and their fixation with the fine points of Christianity. What -- did their Sunday school teachers flog their behinds with a Bible when they were kids?" "Maybe atheists wouldn't be so unpopular if they stopped beating the drum until the hide splits on their second-favorite topic: How stupid people are who believe in God." "Maybe Darwin-o-mania stems from the fact that this year marks the bicentennial of Charles Darwin's birth in 1809, but haven't atheists heard that many religious people (including the late Pope John Paul II) don't have a problem with evolution but, rather, regard it as God's way of letting his living creation unfold? Furthermore, even if human nature as we know it is a matter of lucky adaptations, how exactly does that disprove the existence of God?" "If there is no God -- and you'd be way beyond stupid to think differently -- why does it matter whether he's good or evil?" "What atheists don't seem to realize is that even for believers, faith is never easy in this world of injustice, pain and delusion. Even for believers, God exists just beyond the scrim of the senses. So, atheists, how about losing the tired sarcasm and boring self-pity and engaging believers seriously?"(This message has been edited by skeptic)(This message has been edited by skeptic)(This message has been edited by skeptic)

le Voyageur; Thanks; Amen.

Right now on eBay there are 8 copies being offered, including one 1944 edition for $12 and "buy it now". 7 of the 8 are the first edition, various printings. Suspect the offerings will continue as people clean out garages, attics, and basements, along with houses of parents who have passed away or are downsizing. Take a look.

Thanks for the additional link info. I am paper collector, and now have one more unusual type to aspire to find, even if it is unlikely. At least I know it exists now. You never know what sort of just shows up somewhere.

Try this; it works for me in Mozilla browser. Tried it in IE, and it did not for some reason. Odd. Has the earlier late 40's to late 50's program; also a couple of patches from the new program from late 50's. Probably with a bit of digging, you can find some other representations. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/8826/explorers.html

Yes, the first edition, the old dirt brown cover, is definitely the best. Minor correction; the first edition was in 1944, with subsequent printings almost every year from there on. The earliest has a pebbled type surface and a copyright date of 1944. There is a second printing in 1944 that does not have the pebbled surface. Also was a public copy of the 3rd edition that was sold in bookstores. Would like to see that happen again. I still look for copies of the first issue to give to assistants and friends, as I do with the classic Rockwell Scoutmaster HB. Also look for BSHB's from adult youth periods for thank yous. Many have lost their original books, and it seems appreciated.

In regard to Boys' Life, it is definitely read by kids in the schools that have them in their library. National should seriously consider finding a way to get it into every school in the country. And that would be both Cub and Boy Scout printings in the elementary schools, since that is the cross over level. I donate old copies to various schools in which I sub, and the librarians always say they wish they had them regularly, and more of them. One school says that more than once she has had keep the pieces for the boys to read; and she also said a lot of girls like them too. I also occasionally talk a bit about some outing I was on with my troop, and I always have a number of boys show serious interest, if it is outdoors; and even service that they see as fun and interesting, such as flags at Memorial Day. Now, if they put out a contact piece as part of the mag itself with the recruiting link for on-line, and maybe an 800 type number for local council, that would really be a good tool it seems to me.

Well, until after WWII scouts were registered as First Class or below, never the other "higher" ranks. If they were Star, Life, or even Eagle, they were just First Class with merit badges. The name "First Class" is specifically referring to being the best, as having the epitome of scouting skills. Unless somehow getting older takes away the earning of the other ranks, it would seem to me to be simply logic that if once an Eagle, always an Eagle would apply similarly to the ranks earned prior to. But of course that is just my opinion.

Yep; that would be accurate.

Okay Stosh; since I am in California and unlikely to have the chance, maybe you can give me the recipe and I can make my own. Of course it likely will not measure up to yours at first, but maybe with practice. I made sweet chili at Camporee using four different beans,crushed tomatoes Italian style, Mexican tomatoes, fresh onions, pre-cooked sirloin to get out the grease, garlic, and would you believe powdered hot chocolate. The kids ate every morsel (no plates with half left), and the adults said it was some of the best they ever had. I normally use molasses, but forgot to bring with. Had read somewhere about chocolate, and gave it a try. No cobbler though, as we are already on fire restriction here, and we could not even have charcoal, except in a large open area with a cement slab that was a quarter mile away. They used it for Dutch oven contest and string burning. Did the beans in a number 12 on a large Coleman single burner so I could stay in the site.

Because we eventually talk about pie, and other delectable's.

Stop; I need to try to reach the upper limit of my weight range.

While the outdoor material has something to do with skills, it is more focused on how to run things, the ins and outs of a weekend in the outdoors with kids. If it is too basic for you, then you can simply become the mentor for those for whom it is all new or strange, just like a senior scout. Also, you many be surprised; someone may introduce you to something new, or a different, possibly better way to do something. Good luck. Scout is Outing.

Ed; it is from a late nineteenth century version of the Vulgate bible, which predates basically the King James version. It has a number of Old Testament books not included in the more familiar version with which most of us are familiar. It also has slight variations in the New Testament. You can find a number of substantial descriptions by Googling.

Don't forget the district award of merit; most districts also have recognition awards and certificates at all levels, they just do not have a square knot. It has always seemed to me that cubbing has too many of them, though I know they serve a purpose. At one time, all volunteers were pretty much on the same level, and the few awards just used devices to distinguish them. In some ways, it would be good to revert back, but realistically it could not happen without real confusion and even upset people. Find a way, if only on the troop level. I have given old skill awards to leaders for camping contributions, and one got an old camping meritbadge on a magnet.

Not the same thing Pack; she had no right to ask you in the first place, as it has nothing to do with voter registration. So, no it was not wrong that she had to register you. It is another thing to fire, or threaten to fire someone when you change the rules and they will be forced to go against their personal beliefs for some reason.

So, when the court said Gays could marry anyway in California, and the county clerk suddenly found themselves going against their beliefs, it was okay to tell them to give a license or be fired? How is that right? As long as there are others who can perform the task without it infringing on their beliefs, the individual for whom it is a problem should simply be able to refer them. In regard to medical procedures, I doubt there are many doctors who would not over-ride their normal objections if it was truly life or death at the moment. But they might choose to refer a patient to some other physician in non emergency situations which are matters of choice.

Nolesrule: While I do not countenance the comments of this thread's beginning, I feel you need to know the Vulgate is an authentic text, and there are numerous variations known. While most of us were raised with the more or less standard King James Version, it is nowhere nearly the oldest translations of the texts. And various biblical scholars continue today to reinterpret parts of the material, attempting to go back as early as possible. It will always have variations, and often major errors; but the best are clearly valid. Still, the basic material is fairly consistent for the most part. No matter which biblical text you may choose, there will always be cogent versions that challenge the meanings and interpretations. How can it be otherwise, with 2 centuries and 4 major languages, possibly more if you add in the Germanic ones, and some of the earliest Arabic material?

"Public school charters haven't worked very well, have they? The BSA removed them all when the ACLU threatened to sue any public school that chartered a BSA unit that discriminated." And the circle of regurgitation is completed. Shall we start again? Nah! What is the point?