skeptic

The volunteer "as employee" is I think the result of the legal system skewing the actual status and having the courts agree. It is, as pointed out, not reality. Are the coaches of youth sports and their helpers employees of the leagues? Are the volunteers at the Y or BGC and so on employees if they do not get paid? Lots of room for some actual common judgment on these things, and too often we let the slick tongues lawyer corrupt the real meaning and picture.

The idea of making HA bases into NP orgs actually seems to me a viable thought. As long as the focus is, well, focussed. Opening them up to more non-scout groups could likely lower the costs to Scouting groups who would get priority. And that also might include working out opening them to other World groups.

That is your opinion, though it is wrong. Good luck with dealing with your personal issues.

Sorry, but I think you are asking a truly misquided question. I am simply pointing out that trauma, either physical or mental, especially if repressed for decades for some reason, causes problems that can torment, especially if something happens to trigger it again. You surely can understand that without implying what you seem to be implying. There are NO traumas that do not leave some type of hidden scars mentally. And often they are put into our emotionally padded rooms to stay unless triggered. Many are worse than others, but they are all real and leave their own scars. And none of th

Our problem is that none of us see things exactly the same, and certainly do not intelectually and emotionally respond the same to various issues. And, it depends on the age of those experiencing a trauma. Very young emotional or physical trauma may be so buried that few ever really undrstand what that small discomfort or awful fear is that comes to them in dreams or with some trigger. Until if connected my brother's teasing me about his sunlamp being a wolf's red yee, I could not sleep without some light. Once I figured it out, it no longer was a problem. Similarly, I understand why elec

Say it like it is. Greed has made this entire process into fiasco, with as noted just now again, only the lawyers actually winning anything. If not for the presssure to try to magnify the pot at the expense of currrent youth and really the expense of the verified survivors/victims, more has likely been lost than might have been availible with reasonable and balanced efforts by people not looking for a big payoff, but rather a fair and viable offer that recognizes the errors of the past and makes a legitimate monetary payment and also sets into motion additional safeguards to be added to the

Now please do not destroy the negative bubbles mrjohns2. So, as this thread continues, some resourceful or more determined are finding indicators from the awful files that support the idea that at the time of many of these occurences, there WAS pressure from parents and authorities to NOT publicize things. With enough digging, how many more "might" hint at these types of choices "at the time"? Those that continue to try to make sense of how people thought decades ago, or how they reacted, will not be able to do so with a perspective of today. I am pushing 80, and I know for a fact that

While I am not one to make too much noise about California foolishness, because much of it seems to make sense in regard to the environment and freedom in many areas of society. They surely do not have a lock on legislative stupidity for sure. But this one is already on the path to appeal. Our local area Ojai Valley Gun Club has temporarilty shut down their junior program due to concern they could be accused of advertising "shooting" to youth. The bill is aimed at advertising, but the club has a legal opinion that it is not clear, and the actual youth program could easily be misconstrued.

I spoke to our Minister again today, and he assured me that they want us there. We are in our 101st year, and they are proud of their affiliation with us. Three units, though only the troop is old. Had cubs off and on in the fifties, also a Sea Scout Patrol (not ship), Explorer posts, and a Venture Crew. The sticking point for me is the ownership thing. Ther rest is pretty much the same anyway. They need to fix the concern about the LC being able to just take our stuff because they "own it". The have the money separated it seems. As I noted somewhre, maybe here, it would seem there co

You could make similar comparisons to many others of the day, and even today. In theory, the Y in its various states over more than a century would likely be held in similar esteem; Young Mens' Christian Association (and women's); or the various youth clubs that were common prior to organized youth sport, or any of the religiously connected groups, and of course the educational boards and schools with their members. All of them had/have some kind of "expectation" of higher moral values. Yet, all of them have examples of not meeting those expectations, and as noted in numerous past comments,

Well, why are we in this mess now? The less than straight forward lawyers did exactly what they do when given a chance. The files were not witheld, just not open to the public. Of course, we also still need to consider the eras as well, espcicially the libel laws of the past. You will never find a perfect answer, and there is not doubt many mistakes and a great deal of poor judgement when seen in the light of the current society. You cannot separate the realities of trying to remake history. History should help avoid mistakes if viewed with logic and balance, but it cannot fix the past.

But, how much of this will see the broader media, if any? A story that encompasses what Scouting really teaches and is will likely not bring their attention beyond noting some scouts were on the train. But, we all should still be proud of the example.

Hopefully we will see adjustments to this. For example; as part of the agreement for facility use, the BSA, LC will make an impertuity loan of all such equipment to the unit, charging them say $1 or something like that. With a little imagination, the units can continue pretty much on course and not worry that the LC will suddenly step in and say we want all our equipment back to offer to another group, or whatever. Or, can't the equipment simply be owned still by the church and they "loan" it to the unit in perpetuity?

Trying to take a deep breath and see how it goes. Our church has assured us they want us there; in fact we have more space than before for storage and such. They have approved us turning the two main meeting rooms in the basement into partial museums, as we are in our 101st year. My understanding is that other churches with longevit also are hoping to keep that tenure in place. I need to check into it, but if we had to find a new CO, but kept the site, would the unit tenure transfer to the new CO? That is the biggest concern if we needed to find another sponsor. But, until we see how thi

I know we had issues once or twice with the county and maybe even the state. We had to replace the well after it collapsed due to the drought issues and age. Then it had all be recertified. We use a local portapotty system for camp sites and outlying activity areas, and we have a relatively new system at the pool with individual stalls and a connect system to septic tank. The other main part of camp has some challenges due to age, but is also septic connected but needs updating. The county keeps a very close eye on us; do not know if they do that to other camps in the area, but would hope

Say what you will, these people seem to not find their levels of billing usurious. Who on here, of normal populace, ever made three digit hourly rates? What is non working transportation hours? I know, it is our system. And that is half the problem, as it has become far too much of money pit than a legal equity and fairness instrument. And since the wolves are in charge of the system, little will change unless we find a way to get rid of many of the wolves. Just saying. I am a peon, and this whole thing reeks, and worst of all is that the survivors/victims are also getting abuse again b

Thank you for another perspective. I agree we need to deal with our own issue in BSA. I just wish the field would widen to deal with what seems a really larger concern, one that "nobody is watching". Those places could even include some of the individuals NOT able to get involved with BSA due to their efforts to do some kind of prevention, and those prevention methods improving. It is a societal problem, as well as one related to the worst parts of humanity. But we also do not want to see another disaster like the McMartin case.

Let me try one more time. The point is that the lack of safeguards in most of these camps is a far larger problem than the BSA due to the apparent lack of reasonable oversight. So, and the article hints at it, abuse is one of the things that the camps are open to and in a far greater way due to the lack of oversight. Note also the comment that no body wants to take that oversight responsibility. IF BSA is held to the grindstone when it has verifiably some the safest camps around due to their program requirements and training, and it is still the target of public disdain and legal attacks,

The whole point of sharing is that this is happening with no where near the turmoil as BSA has, even though they have far safer camps at far higher usage. So, not sure why the down vote, as it does relate as you noted, in comparison.

This article is on point and also, in my view, suggests how skewed the BSA lawsuit and its fall is. While BSA, that has huge levels of supervision and is in some states almost unable to meet all the restrictions, this is going on with little or no serious attention. And, it is not new, nor is it only in California. The article notes that few states have any real supervision over these types of programs, and that most government entities seem to NOT want to take responsibility. It does not excuse the BSA mistakes, it only points out that BSA is not the likely worst player, just has become t

Let us try to not jump the gun with our already biased opinions. Until we see the entire agreement, and we also see how it comes together, or apart, we should move ahead. As far as most gear is concerned, the LC will have no place to keep it, and I believe that is actually part of the larger agreement. We will be very wary of how it works, but it is too early to panic completely or rebel. Our local church is still supportive and I do not see that changing.

"Humanity as a whole" is the key phrase here. And BSA at any level cannot fix that, no matter how many lawsuits or dollars are offered. That of course is the problem from day one. People in BSA are part of the larger existence, "Humanity", or the human species. And controling all of them is not possible, only watching as well as you can to keep the evil ones away. And even then, as is shown, no manner of rules or methods are fool proof. Meanwhile, society continues down the sump while it destroys many of the most overall positive options in its existence. The panacea that somehow we all

A step, but we need it on the Scout level as well. Really no reason to not have coed other than lack of enough women, and that today should really not be a problem. JMO of course. Meanwhile, we now have to deal with the NEW charter model as Methodist units.

Thanks for the share. It touches on a couple of my concerns as to the approach. One for me is taking for gospel, or at least suggesting, that the 82000 number is accurate, even though few have been vetted even a little it seems, and we know the fact exists some likely were harvested. Another part is the time differentials of much of it. One of the primery survivors notes the abuse was also a teacher and much of the abuse was in school settings. Also there is admission that some did not bring it up until years later when the ads went out. That does not mean they are not victim/survivo

This was a short piece I wrote ages ago for the local newspaper when they were doing a series on summer youth activities and asked me to do one on Scouts. Ironically, not much has changed in the couple of decades or so since. Summer Camp It's 6:30 on a Sunday morning. An assistant scoutmaster and I have been at our scoutroom since 6:00, getting troop equipment prepared for a week's stay at summer camp in the chaparral and pinion hinterlands of northern San Diego county. Now, as the scouts begin to arrive, organized confusion begins. One hour t