shortridge

There's nothing preventing a modern-day Scoutmaster Simmons from using the same tools - common sense, parent and community support, rich benefactor, military/musical background and upbeat personality - that Fred MacMurray's character used. Folks who have a strong libertarian-style streak may be turned off by the way things have evolved since their own youth. But so has everything else. The rules and regs, for all that folks moan and groan about them, give individual units a remarkable degree of latitude to develop a powerful program. That's not to say specific things couldn't be improved, but I find it hard to condemn such "modern" things as YPT, two-deep leadership, Safety Afloat and climbing training.

jtswestark: Your son's experience sounds like a mirror of mine. The difference is that I never got Eagle. I was having far too much fun in the OA and on camp staff - they gave me opportunities that the troop couldn't.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Chapter meetings are hopefully not representative of the OA program in your area. Go to a lodge or chapter inductions or fellowship weekend, and volunteer your services as an elangomat, member of the physical arrangements (ceremony site set-up) team, general work crew member, kitchen crew, anything. Now, hands off! From there, let him choose his own path. There are many opportunities for youth to get involved and lead. He'll find his niche by himself. I touched a lot of bases working my way up, from sobbing while cutting onions in the kitchen to being summer camp staff rep and running elections. Loved all of it. Chapters are going to be generally representative of the troops in the district. If the troops are mostly adult-led, indoor-meeting, let's-kick-a-hackey-sack-around-Fellowship-Hall types, then chapter meetings are going to need an extra shot in the arm to make them fun. It's a little-known fact that a chapter can do pretty darn much anything it wants. It can do independent campouts, overnights, rafting expeditions, ski trips, ceremonial practice weekends, service projects... open a page at random in any BSA program publication and stick your finger on it, and odds are a chapter can do it. Random suggestion: I'm sure you've got talented Scouts who know how to work all the doohickeys on their parents' video cameras and then edit them and put stuff on YouTube. For a first, easy project, try making a chapter camping promotions video - either at your summer camp or at local popular campsites. It's simple and it just might spark something. Random suggestion II: Get involved yourself, if you have the time. If you set an active example in the OA, your son will follow.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

That said, though, what would be the purpose in restricting distribution or sale of the information in the green binders given to folks who attend NCS? It's not top-secret information, and can only help folks who want to learn more.

Such "Polar Bear" or "Frostbite Camper" patches are not really advancements, per se. They fall under the category of temporary patches. The vast majority of temp patches - the ones you can wear on your right pocket, brag vest or patch blanket - are local-issue type of things. They're for district or council events (like a Cub-O-Ree or Bowl-A-Thon), day camp or summer camp, hiking a historic trail, etc. They are on a council-by-council basis - so as far as finding all the info in one place, you are kind of out of luck on that angle. Edited: There was a previous recent thread on cold-weather camping awards, with some details that show how the criteria vary from council to council. See http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=211309(This message has been edited by shortridge)

I don't think I could watch this movie in a room with other Scouters, because it always makes me cry. The scenes with Whitey and his father, particularly at the troop meeting, are heartbreaking. It does give one pause to think that once there was enough land cheaply available (or freely given) for brand-new Scout camps. Now where I'm from, it'd cost you an arm, leg and your first-born child to get enough land on a suitable site.

[utmost apologies for duplicate post. My mouse is messing up.](This message has been edited by shortridge)

This Eagle adviser said he has a 100% first time pass rate and he is not going to take a packet in that he does not think is certain to pass the first time. This Eagle adviser needs to get his head screwed on properly, and possibly be replaced. It's not his project; he's not going to lose his job because of a low "pass rate"; and if his ego is so sensitive that he needs to be validated by that type of "achievement," then he might not be a suitable role model for youngsters. Make one last effort to work with this gentleman. Suggest that your son ask for a detailed list, in writing, of what else he needs to do to make the project passable - all at once, not piecemeal - and then do those things. Be sure to get it in writing. That should solve it. If the adviser keeps on throwing up roadblocks, then he's way out of line, and your son has documentation to prove it.

Like the vast majority of publications, both Boys' Life and Scouting *rarely* take unsolicited manuscripts. Those end up on the "slush pile," as book publishers call it, and might get a cursory glance, but little else. That said, they do publish freelance articles, and welcome article ideas - it's not just an "as-assigned" type of thing. Just don't waste your time writing the whole thing up first. Send them a detailed query with your idea, and wait until you get the go-ahead. They'll let you know if it meets their needs. (It might be a good article, for example, but it's just not the right time on their editorial calendar... or they may have done something similar within the last few years.) Writers guidelines (read carefully): http://media.scouting.org/boyslife/about/contributors/writers.pdf http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/about/contributors/writers.html

Marbles bring back many fond memories of Cubs. My den leader had an old carpet, worn pretty flat, that she let us draw chalk circles on (she was extremely tolerant) and was PERFECT for shooting marbles. We spent many a "pre-meeting activity" on our knees in her living room. Nowadays, however, I find that my thumbs and fingers get really painful, really quick, if I try to shoot some. I'm not sure if they've aged faster than the rest of me, or if I was just a lot tougher at age 8.

nrp1488, Are you certain about those Maryland regs? I don't recall those rules from my youth (early '90s), and couldn't find any such reference on the state park Web site. The only ratio I could find is a 1:5 rule for groups using a free "youth pass" for groups.

You get on the internet and the first three sites you visit are Scouter.com, baloos Bugle, and the council website to make sure that you are not missing anything. You've been snooping on my computer? Darn Big Brother...

In present-day camping, very few of the traditional Scouting skills are used on a day-to-day basis. Wilderness survival? Got a cell phone and personal locator beacon. Map and compass? Got a GPS. Boiling water? Carrying canteens? Heck, you can get a filtration system hooked up to your Camelbak, and you don't even have to take off your pack to drink. Carving a Scout stave? Got a pair of trekking poles. To me, it's those traditional skills that are the most important to pass on, lest they fall by the wayside completely. You never know when they'll be useful, and that really is the crux of the issue, as GW's story showed. I never learned tracking, trailing, stalking or signalling, but I sure wish I had, and am trying to teach myself nowadays. (Re: Campfire cooking - for that matter, what happens when your high-tech stove breaks down, you can't fix it, and most of your food requires cooking?)

In my council, the summer camp program guide comes out in January. So you might have to wait a while.

What exactly are you looking for?

I've only seen them in libraries. Interesting approach. I love the "old" issues. My first SM gave me some copies from the '60s (not that that's old!!! ), and the articles and illustrations and photos are just of amazingly high quality. IMHO, BSA would do better by publishing two magazines - one for Cubs and one for Boy Scouts/Venturers. It's virtually impossible to write something that appeals to ages 6-17 without dumbing it down so you lose the older segment.

Yeah, keeping the parents happy is going to be your biggest challenge. If they're grumpy, the kids are going to be grumpy, so don't give them the opportunity to sit around and grump! Enlist them as helpers cooking, leading songs, activities, etc. Knot-tying never goes out of style for any age group, and is super-suitable for rainy days. Just have plenty of appropriate rope - short pieces of thick nylon or kernmantle (climbing rope) castoffs, fused at the ends, is perfect for small hands. (Don't try to teach them with manila or polyprop, unless it's all you've got.)

Greetings, all Im going to be starting up a Daisy troop at my daughters school next fall. Im new to Girl Scouting my background is in Cubs and Boy Scouting and I have yet to undergo training (thats coming in the spring). However, I have been spending some time brainstorming program ideas to last the two years of the new program. Id really appreciate some input and feedback from folks whove been there, done that. Have any of these things worked (or failed) for you? Are there any that you think are too advanced for 5- and 6-year-old girls and should be saved for later? Ive tried to use a progression approach, laying the groundwork in the first year for slightly more advanced activities in the second. One of the biggest challenges is going to be making sure the activities dont duplicate stuff the girls have already done in school, so its not old hat to them. Ive laid this out in a rough seasonal format, but thats just for organizations sake these are just ideas based on interesting program topics, and some activities are clearly more time-intensive than others. (Ive also tried to beef up the winter programs with more indoor activities.) Im still working on pairing up the petals with individual activities. Thanks in advance for any feedback! YEAR ONE Fall 1. Open house 2. Welcome meeting: Me In Paper, other fun, low-key intro activity TBD 3. Investiture family ceremony, activity TBD 4. Cooking 1: Food groups, eating healthy, snacks, make GORP, banana Popsicles, emphasize adult help/supervision 5. Cooking 2: Simple homemade soup, foil cooking (maybe) 6. Pumpkins/Harvest Time: Visit to/tour of pick-your-own pumpkin patch, painting and decorating pumpkins, maybe roasting seeds 7. Founders Day Oct. 31 8. Safety 1: Stranger rules, what to do in a car accident, dialing 911, simple first aid (cuts, scratches, splinters) 9. Safety 2: Visit to fire station, stop-drop-roll, home escape plans, dialing 911 (again) 10. Colors & Dyes: Tie-dye butterflies, natural dyes, doing something with shirts 11. Thanks-Giving food baskets, adopt-a-family, canned food drive Winter 1. Maple sugaring: Visit to local nature center 2. Holiday parade (optional) 3. Caroling (optional) 4. Tea Party: Working on politeness, courtesy, manners just a fun dress-up formal-type troop event, bring your favorite stuffed animal 5. Art 1: Mosaics, collages, painting 6. Art 2: Sandpainting, masks 7. Flags: Basic rules about the American flag, salutes, Pledge of Allegiance, folding the flag, simple flag ceremony, color guard 8. Music 1: Simple instruments making your own shoebox banjo, washtub fiddle, drums, rattles, bottle flutes, kazoos 9. Music 2: Basic notes, types of bands, rehearsal 10. Theatre 1: Skits, songs, sock puppets, costumes, masks (combine w/Art 2) 11. Theatre 2: Visit a performance (high school/youth group show ideal), go backstage, talk to actors/actresses, stage crew 12. Family Show! musical performances, chorus, skits and stunts, art gallery on display Spring 1. Weather 1: Rain gauge, thermometer, basic cloud types, barometer, weather rock 2. Weather 2: Keep a weather diary/chart, visit a local TV meteorologist 3. Kite Day: Making a simple kite, flying them at annual kite festival 4. Birding 1: Birdwatching basics, basic IDs, troop birdbook, binocular use, keeping up a birdbath, pinecone birdfeeders 5. Birding 2: Making nesting bags, birding walk with expert at state park 6. Gardening 1: Mini-gardens, cup seeds, flowerbox, window gardens, seedlings, troop garden 7. Gardening 2: Visit to greenhouse, organic farm 8. Flower Planting service project (daisies, of course!) at school, nursing home, community center, senior center 9. Safety 3: Police station visit, fingerprinting, safety ID cards, photos, plaster casts of shoes, dialing 911 10. Outdoors 1: Safety and getting ready adventure kits, foil shoeprints, whistle, water, poncho, GORP, Hug A Tree program 11. Outdoors 2: Family picnic and hike at local state park/nature center Summer 1. Library visit (Summer Reading Program tie-in) 2. 4th of July parade (optional) 3. Indians 1: Studying different cultures, making headbands, how they lived, dances, clothing, game (e.g., corncob darts), visit to local Indian museum 4. Indians 2: Visit to local Powwow, talking to an Indian woman and members of local girls Indian dance group 5. Bike Rodeo: Safety, rules of the road, helmets, stopping, bike maintenance and helmet checks, string and cone courses get local bike shop employee to help? 6. Pets & Animals 1: Visit to a vet, no-kill animal shelter, discussion of responsible pet ownership, bring in photos of girls pets 7. Pets & Animals 2: Visit local zoo, talk with zookeeper 8. Swimming: At local Y or community pool, safety rules, basic swimming instruction for those who need it 9. State Fair visit YEAR TWO Fall 1. Fitness 1: Obstacle course, including balance beam, stunt walks (frog, crab, etc.), rope swing, frog stand, rope climb, monkey bars, etc. 2. Fitness 2: Fitness challenge athletics, gymnastics, sit-ups, push-ups, long jump, stretching, inner-tube stretches, dashes, croquet, kickball, Red Rover, Frisbee, basketball 3. Knots: Overhand, square, shoelace bows, coiling/throwing, ropemaking 4. Delaware Agricultural Museum visit: Old-time schoolhouse, baby chicks, looms/weaving, sheep-shearing, old-time baseball (rounders) demonstration 5. Farms 1: Tour of working farm (dairy/swine ideal), Q&A with farmer 6. Farms 2: Visit to/tour of orchard pick-your-own place ideal 7. Genius Kits: See traditional Cub Scout activity each member gets a box of miscellaneous stuff and has to make something from it a diorama, mechanism, display, just something cool 8. Magnet Power: Positive/negative energy, refrigerator magnets, making magnet creatures, drawings with shavings and plastic covers, magnetizing a needle, magnet games 9. Inventions & Creativity: Famous female inventors, washer-parachute catapult, puddle jumpers, etc. 10. Founders Day Oct. 31 special assignment? 11. Tools: Basics of safety and use tape measure, screwdriver, saw, pliers, hammer, nail-driving relay 12. Coastal Cleanup optional service project at state beaches, held annually Winter 1. Hammer & Nails 1 (piggybacking off Tools): Review basics of tools, start making holiday gift toolbox or birdhouse 2. Hammer & Nails 2: Continue/finish making holiday gift 3. Holiday parade (optional) 4. Caroling (optional) 5. Collections: Different types of collections, keeping things organized, Show & Tell, how to start one 6. Family Bowling: Just a fun, simple, low-stress family event, possibly multiple troops 7. Night Skies 1: Fear of the dark, stars, umbrella pinhole planetariums 8. Night Skies 2: Telescopes, constellation basics, visit to observatory/local astronomical group, presentation by local expert, talk about stars and space 9. Photography: Very basic stuff, using simple digital camera, digital vs. film, snap shots for troop newsletter 10. Codes & Ciphers: Invisible ink, number codes, alpha substitution, code wheels, famous female cryptologists 11. Letters 1: Writing letters to future self, pen pals, sister troop, exchanges, letters to seniors, letters to soldiers (esp. local military women), making paper 12. Letters 2: Visit to/tour of post office, envelopes, addressing envelopes Spring 1. Trees: Planting seedlings, deciphering rings, tree ID walk, collecting leaves, bark rubbings 2. Recycling 1: Three Rs, helping the planet, recycling at home, re-using stuff for crafts, making simple item/craft from trash 3. Recycling 2: Visit to recycling center, recycling drive service project 4. Kites: Making more advanced kites, visit to local kite festival 5. Fishing 1: Waterscopes, parts of the fish, how to ID fish, rules of safe fishing 6. Fishing 2: Make own simple poles, rules review, casting, fishing! 7. Visit a Brownie troop Summer 1. Boating 1: Types of boats, balloon jetboat, rubber band paddleboat, making regatta racers 2. Boating 2: All-day event at state park (multiple troops?), raingutter regatta competition, pontoon boat trek (small groups) 3. Swimming (pool party?) 4. 4th of July parade optional 5. Family Fun campout 6. Summer Roundup weekend campout 7. Bridging ceremony to Brownies SECONDARY MEETING ACTIVITIES in no particular order, just a start-up brainstorm list to complement or break up the main program activity 1. Treasure hunt 2. Scavenger hunt 3. Languages counting, greetings (in local Indian tribes language for Indian studies?) 4. Sing-a-longs make troop songbook with favorites? 5. Magic tricks show them off at Family Show? 6. Cardboard boomerangs 7. Spinning string color wheel (for Colors & Dyes or Art) 8. Map-reading, 50-state maps 9. Crystal candy 10. Color A Smile 11. Baby food-jar snowglobes 12. Project Linus 13. Halloween safety rules 14. Making smile bugs 15. Adopt-An-Angel or similar Salvation Army-type project at holidays? 16. Making soup mixes in a jar for elderly residents 17. New Friend Rolls 18. Weekly or regular pen pal letter-sharing? 19. Make friendship bracelets for Brownies 20. Story-time? 21. Make chore charts for use at home, with stickers

Winter nature hikes are great - I like the "undiscovered country" theme. Try outdoor photography, as well. There are bound to be some great wintertime scenes waiting to be captured.

Running/tennis shoes.

I might get called out for this, but you also might consider partnering with a local Girl Scout Daisy troop - not joint meetings, but maybe holding meetings at the same time and meeting place for families who have kindergarten or first-grade girls as well as first-grade boys. That could keep the programs separate while offering convenience to parents with multiple kids or younger siblings. You could also do some joint recruitment efforts. (Caveat: I've never done this or seen it done, but it seems like a good idea, at least initially.)

GaHillBilly wrote: "Leave No Trace" is dishonest BS. Any of you with even minimal outdoor experience know this. My skills pale in comparison to what 1st Class Scouts learned 70 years ago, but I'll guarantee you I can follow the "trace" of your patrol of 6 boys, no matter how "conservation minded" they are, everywhere they WALK, unless it's on rock or pavement. The only way to "leave no trace", is to stay home. Many elements of the modern environmental movement see mankind as an infection of Mother Earth, and this belief has trickled into mainstream jargon. The "Leave no trace" slogan is only one example. Fortunately, it's possible to pledge "The Outdoor Code" without crossing your fingers, but BSA needs to dump LNT as EITHER dishonest or ELSE incompatible with Scouting. GaHillBilly: I would respectfully but strongly disagree with your interpretation of LNT. I'm also sorry to hear about Lem's daughter's experience with the raving lunatic of a Girl Scout leader. Some people do take issues to extremes, on both sides of the proverbial aisles. As to your statement above: It's impossible for any human being, even holed up in a house, to leave no trace of their passing on the planet. The Leave No Trace program does not suggest that it is, and only a very literal reading of the slogan by someone with very little understanding of the program would suggest that. Rather, it's a series of best practices, if you will, for lessening your impact. I think the Leave No Trace folks themselves put it best: "Leave No Trace is an national and international program designed to assist outdoor enthusiasts with their decisions about how to reduce their impacts when they hike, camp, picnic, snowshoe, run, bike, hunt, paddle, ride horses, fish, ski or climb. The program strives to educate all those who enjoy the outdoors about the nature of their recreational impacts as well as techniques to prevent and minimize such impacts. Leave No Trace is best understood as an educational and ethical program, not as a set of rules and regulations." Personally, I love campfires - I still haven't adjusted to backpacking stoves. There's something elemental about crackling flames. But I'm not going to light one up when I don't need to. That's the kind of thing that LNT teaches, not eco-extremism.

My personal do's and don't's: Camp staff members DON'T... - Complain about food, facilities, other staff, Scouts or leaders (at least not in earshot of Scouts or leaders ). - Discuss internal staff problems in front of Scouts or leaders, including but not limited to underfunding, low salaries or materials shortages. - Act in ways that violate camp and Scouting rules and regs (throwing knives, canoeing without PFDs, etc.). I've seen and worked with far too many staff members who aren't mature enough to understand that these kinds of behaviors aren't professional. Unfortunately, one such staffer per camp is too much - the proverbial bad apple. That one immature, trash-talking staffer is enough to give a unit a bad experience and decide not to return. Staff members DO... - Keep smiling even in the most lousy of adverse conditions. - Have a good sense of humor. - Know almost everything there is to know about their program area. - Be willing to learn new things. - Pitch in with other duties before they're assigned - cleaning the dining hall, moving tents, dishing out meals. - Lead songs and do skits with genuine enthusiasm, not any rolling-eyes, we've-done-this-10-times-before fakery. - Learn Scouts' names by the second day. - Be seen around unit campsites frequently, if only to say "Hi, howya doin'?" on the way to their program area. - Take safety seriously. - Share responsibility, even at the lowliest CIT levels. - Possess a "We're the best!" attitude that generates pride in the camp and its units. - Cherish old camp traditions and establish new ones. All these go back to two core things - enthusiasm and maturity. Unfortunately, those aren't attributes that can easily be checked out in a 10-minute interview, or even a staff interview/activity/training weekend. But generally, they can be transferred down from the top. If the camp director takes his turn pitching in in the commissary and the program director can be seen helping a younger Scout tie a bowline, well, that does wonders for morale and overall attitude. Edited to add: The percentage of returning staff is a critically important criterion, and one that can easily be checked out. Returning staff have the institutional knowledge necessary to run a camp smoothly (what's the best way to set up a tent? in which box did we put those field guides last year? how do you break in to the woods tools shed when the key has gone missing?), as well as the obvious love of the place and people necessary to maintain enthusiasm. That said, don't make it your only checklist item. There can be many reasons for a staff to have its returning percentage drop suddenly, including senior staffers graduating college.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

So female leaders can wear temp patches in the "Jambo spot," but the same is not true for female Venturers? Does that make sense? I don't have an Insignia Guide right here.

The Beatles were clearly into Sea Scouting, as evidenced by their ditty about a submarine. And I've heard rumors that John and Paul were both Vigil Honor members of the OA (Ob-La-Di Lodge 68).