SemperParatus

10-4 good buddy. Welcome back and happy scouting!

Speaking of ducks... Three guys are ushered through the pearly gates. The place is filled with ducks sitting everywhere. St. Peter greets the newest arrivals; "Welcome to heaven, your home for eternity. Whatever you do, don't step on a duck." So the three stand as still as they can, until one shuffles his feet and accidentally steps on a duck. Instantly, heaven resounds with the loud quacking of the multitude of waterfowl. As they settle down, St. Peter comes up to the offending man and admonishes him. As punishment, he ties the man to a short rope attached to the ugliest, most foul looking woman you ever saw, for eternity. The other two, seeing this punishment, resolve to stand ever more still. Eventually, one of the two moves ever so slightly, bumping a duck and causing the multitudes to begin quacking once again. Again, St. Peter runs up to the man and attaches him to a short rope with the most hideous of women, for the rest of eternity. Seeing this, the third man resolves to stand perfectly still. After a long while of remaining motionless, St. Peter runs up to the man and attaches a short rope to him with a voluptuous, drop dead gorgeous woman attached to the other end, for eternity. Dumbfounded, he says to the woman, "I've no idea what I have done to deserve such a reward." The woman, looking dejected, responds, "I don't know about you, but I just stepped on a duck."

And to think I used to spend money to be entertained this much. Thanks all.

A horse walks into the bar...bartender says 'what's with the long face'.

Ahhhh...Michael Moorcock...Behold the Man

I didn't realize that Boys Life accepts joke submissions online. http://www.boyslife.org/about/contact/jokes/ And you can get a cool patch and your choice of $2, a scout handbook or a fieldbook. What a deal! Submit your joke here and to Boys Life, and we'll see who gets the first patch.

A troop has no legal status as a charity. The charity status resides with the Chartered Organization. A troop is but an extension of the CO. Moneys raised through fundraising efforts are done so under the legal auspices of the CO and become the property of the CO (albeit, the accounting may specifically dedicate such funds to providing the scouting program to its individual members). Direct cash contributions to scout accounts needs a written policy as to the disposition of the funds. Without such a policy, direct cash contributions would also be considered property of the CO, and the contribution would be considered a donation to the CO/Troop. The policy should clearly explain that direct cash contributions to scout accounts are held by the CO/Troop, in trust, for the benefit of the individual scout and that the CO/Troop is liable for the return of such funds upon reasonable request of the individual. (This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

Karl, I know two Scoutmasters that had terrible experiences as scouts back in the 1970s. One was 'kicked out' of his troop. Both got heavily involved in cub scouts when their own sons were of age, because they value what the scouting program is about, recognize the tremendous benefits that it offers, and wanted to ensure that their own sons had positive scouting experiences (unlike their own). Serving as den leaders and later scoutmasters, they bring positive energy and kindness to their role. They have both told me they have found some healing of their scouting experiences as youth through dedicated and positive leadership as adults. You can focus on the past and the pain, asking why. Or, you can move forward and make a difference in the lives of many boys. The BSA is not beyond the ugliness of humanity. It should not be defined by the inappropriate actions of certain individuals. Research what the BSA offers to the youth of this nation, investigate units in your area, speak with some of the many dedicated scouters who have genuine concern for the boys in their units and spend countless hours making the scouting experience worthwhile for them, consider how your own son may benefit through such an association with positive leadership, and ask yourself if there may be an opportunity to heal your own wounds through giving of yourself to others by volunteering. Welcome to this forum.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

Our PLC is toying with a trip idea of transporting ourselves and gear on railroad tracks using those old style railroad push carts. Thought is to find a 25+ mile lay of track that is maintained (by railroading club or tourist train outfit) and propelling ourselves to a camping destination for a real 'hobo' style campout. Anyone ever tried this before? Do you know of any possible railroading clubs/orgs on the east coast that may offer such an experience? Safety considerations? Other thoughts?

Our PLC is talking about having cardboard box boat races during one of our summer trips. Any advice on application of G2SS (treat as a canoe?)? Anyone done this before? Any tips for hot boat setups? Other suggestions? Thanks.

Ditto to what Trevorum said.

I have the book. Its okay, nothing special. Probably worth the $5.

fred, I have no idea why the Sam Houston Council has a different rule for a school/school board, PTA or business. They all have EINs too. If you follow the Sam Houston Plan B option - you are getting a second EIN in the name of the Chartered Organization. I would think the proper thing to do is to get approval from your CO to do that, rather than file something in its name without their approval. If they don't want to release their EIN, or forbid a unit from filing for a second EIN in its name, then there is something wrong with the CO/unit relationship in spite of what the minimum requirements may be.

BTW, You may find your CO's EIN on this website: http://www.guidestar.org/ There are several commercial concerns that can tell you EINs too - like EIN Finder. A nonprofit organization must make its 990 filing open for public inspection to anyone that requests it. The EIN is prominantly displayed on the front page of this filing. In other words, it is not a big secret. Withholding this information (from itself) is ridiculous.

Our COR is trained. It helps that she has a son in the unit and is active. Good luck on the MIA COR.

I can think of no good reason for a CO to withhold its FEIN to an extension of itself. The lack of cooperation by the CO is an indication that the CO is not supportive of the program that it has agreed to sponsor. What to do? 1. Educate the CO. 2. Speak with a CO representative that would understand this to be the nonissue that it is. A secretary or clerk may be tasked with a simple no answer. Make sure you have discussed with the head of the CO. 3. Get approval from the CO to file for a second FEIN in their name solely for the unit's use. 4. Find a CO that is supportive of your unit and BSA program.

What you are doing is creating a second FEIN for your chartered organization. Do they approve of that? If you are using their address, then they will know about this very shortly as the EIN notice is received in the mail.

Our family has been heavily involved in both the Boy and Girl Scout program for many years. Your daughter's Brownie Troop meeting during the middle of the school day is unusual. Not making the bridging ceremony an important event, that most parents can attend, is also unusual. In our family's opinion (including my wife - a troop, cluster and community leader for a dozen years - and daughter, a Gold Award recipient), the BSA program is much more varied and intense, especially at the older ages. At the younger ages, they are somewhat comparable. But in the teen years, the BSA seems to have its act more together while the Girl Scout program does not seem to capture the same level of interest for maturing girls. Obviously, local leadership can make a huge difference in what an individual child gets out of the program. Both are great programs that have helped our kids (and ourselves) mature and establish a solid base for adulthood.

Your tax filing responsibilities will be determined by the IRS based on the information you provided on your application. Here is the FEIN application form, which mirrors the information you provide on-line or via the phone. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fss4.pdf Out of curiosity? 1. How did you complete line 1 - legal name of entity? Your unit is not a legal entity - it is not separately incorporated, organized or formed under the organization chartering statutes of your state. 2. How did you complete line 7a - Name of principal officer, general partner, grantor, owner or trustor? A scouting unit has none of these positions that are legally defined under the appropriate state statutes. Realize that whoever you listed would, in all likelihood, be considered by the IRS to be a responsible party that may have personal liability for tax, penalties, other obligations owing to the IRS. 3. How did you complete line 8a? Especially given the fact that your unit is not an entity, whose name appears on any state charter registration records. 4. How did you complete lines 9, 14 and 15? What you have is an FEIN issued erroneously by the IRS. Assuming you have indicated that you are a 'nonprofit' under line 8a, you can expect that the IRS will be sending you a Form 990 in the mail for completion. Likewise, assuming the their computer system is not fouled up, the IRS may contact you asking where your exempt organization application (Form 1023 or 1024) is. When that happens, the jig will be up. You cannot file an exempt organization application for the unit because the unit is not a separate legal entity. Besides costing $600, the application requires that you attach the unit's articles of organization and corporate bylaws, which do not exist. If you are not an exempt organization (determined solely by the IRS based on the exemption application they receive), then you are a taxable organization. I fear you have opened up a can of worms for yourself, that will result in some IRS notices that will need to be addressed. Assuming they are all handled in the correct manner, in the end, the IRS will merely revoke your FEIN and you will be back to the beginning, albeit somewhat wiser. I am sure there are units out there that have received an erroneous FEIN and continue to believe that everything is just fine. Maybe the IRS just doesn't bother with chasing it down, or notices have been discarded because of changes in the names and addresses of the unit leadership over the years. Regardless, you have obtained a FEIN under false pretenses. It remains to be seen what the outcome of that may be. If handled correctly, it shouldn't cost you any money, only unnecessary time.

Mark, Historic Trails are open to any person/group. In many cases, the booklets are sold at gift shops for anyone to purchase and follow (and follow-up with a patch or medal order. Living in Maryland, we are fortunate to have about a dozen historic trails within 50-75 miles of each other. Check out this site for a good place to buy the historic trail guides cheaply. http://www.thecarolinatrader.com/trails.htm Happy hiking!

The last AT hike I did, I met an elderly gentleman that was in the process of his 6th thru-hike in the past 8 years. He was 77 years old. He appeared feeble sitting on a rock eatin his lunch. When we started hiking, he left me in his dust.

A non-profit organization does not have a federal 'tax-exempt number' (it may have a state exemption number used for sales tax purposes only). From the federal perspective, it receives an Employer Identification Number (so that it can file payroll returns, 990s, etc.) and a determination letter from the IRS that grants tax-exempt (Sec 501©) and public charity/private foundation (Sec 170) status. Note, it is the public charity/private foundation status that enables for people to make deductible charitable donations to the organization (not the tax-exempt status). So, asking a nonprofit organization for its federal tax exempt number you will get the answer that there is none, because there is none. Ask them for their federal employer identification number - that is what donors/grantmakers typically need. In the case of organizations that are not easily identified as a public charity/private foundation (e.g, not churches) it would be appropriate to ask for a copy of the IRS determination letter as well. It is very likely that your church does not have such a determination letter since they would fall under the group exemption that is granted to large denominational churches (Catholic dioceses, Lutheran synods, Presbyterian USA, etc.).

When I try to sing this, it comes out like a modified, 'My Darling Clementine'. Then again, I'm not much of a singer.

Marge, You should be commended for your care and concern for this young man. Too often today, we turn our backs on other people's problems out of a sense of 'minding your own business' or 'not wanting to offend'. If he is indeed worshipping Satan, then he needs help. Unfortunately, that help will only come if the scout himself (and his parents) choose to seek it. This young man needs the professional help that only a trained counselor/clergyman can provide. The BSA will be of no help for this boy as it concerns his 'religious' practices. Your prayers and demonstrations of concern are what you can best offer him. Your concern seems to relate primarily to this boy's attendance at summer camp and his possible sharing of his practice of devil-worshipping with other scouts. Has this occurred in the past? If yes, did the Troop leadership take any action? If no, why would you think it would occur now?

In this situation - 2 small dens are better than 1 larger den. You and your husband love scouting too much (in spite of the adult problems) to completely walk away. Start that new den up with the three boys, recruit a few more and make it special for those boys.