SeattlePioneer

I've seen blacksmith shops at Scout camps that teach the metalworking merit badge and such. Has anyone seen an amateur radio station set up at a Scout camp that teaches the radio or other Merit Badge? That would probably have some interest among Scouts.

Hello Eagle92, In the past I've sent out e-mails to the Pack Committee Chairs and Cubmasters on what the Roundtable would be covering each month. Just recently I got a list of all Cub Pack unit leaders, including Den Leaders Committee Members and such, and just got done making an e-mail list of all those people. I sent out an e-nail to all of them explaining what our Roundtable would be about this Thursday. Stand by to see if that improves turnout. The District Executive e-mailed that list of unit leaders to me when I asked for it.

Hello Disappointed, Yep, that can happen. It's the usual occurrence that facts about what happened in an incident are in dispute, even among people who observed what happened. It sounds like your son made mistakes that could have gotten him kicked out of Scouting, and probably charged criminally. That doesn't appear to be in dispute either. The real decision was made by the Institutional Head --- the Church Pastor. He chose to treat this as a potential threat to youth in the Troop, and he acted accordingly to protect them. I understand that you feel he didn't act charitably, and perhaps that's true. But especially if he wasn't well acquainted with your son and the facts and history of this incident, perhaps his actions were reasonable, even courageous. The easiest thing to do is to ignore problems and hope they will go away. Sometimes they do, sometimes they get a lot worse. It sounds like the Pastor didn't have the issue with your son explained to him, and probably felt blindsided when it exploded on him. I wouldn't be at all surprised if in your unhappiness and anger you want to just put this situation behind you. Another alternative would be to wait a few months and to ask the Scoutmaster, Committee Chair or other troop leaders to ask to put you and your son back as registered pack leaders. You could both fill out adult leader applications and the Pastor would have another opportunity to decide to appoint you as unit leaders. One of the reasons why bad behavior is bad is because it can harm a lot of people in unexpected ways. The root cause of the problem here was the bad behavior of your son, not the Pastor and not even the angry parent. Your son made himself vulnerable to this kind of thing, and made you vulnerable too. When we make mistakes, we hope for charity from all and malice towards none. But it doesn't always work that way.

Sure it's an issue, and it's an issue for me. The last Troop I was with did a moderately challenging backpacking trip which I wasn't on. The Scoutmaster was overweight and he really wasn't fit enough to do the trip safely, and he struggled mightily and excessively. I suspect that an effective way of dealing with that kind of issue is to have a tune up hike or backpack trip which will make it obvious who is fit for a challenging trip and who is not. That should allow a conversation to take place about that. It's not unusual for people, youth and adults, to overestimate what they can do.

Hello desertrat77, Oh, I do. Probably good to know there are places where they are scarce as hens teeth, too.

I was involved in a troop where the Troop Committee Chair didn't hold meetings because he said no one was interested. After he quit and we appointed a new Committee Chair, we had regular monthly meeting which were reasonably well attended, including by the former committee chair. I've spent the past 3 1/2 years rebuilding a pack that was down to a single boy. We've had regularly scheduled Pack Committee meeting and every one has been at least reasonably well attended. April 30th our pack committee meeting was aimed at welcoming new parents recruited at our April 2nd recruiting night. Every new parent attended and had an experience in meeting other parents and understanding how pack activities were organized and run. On May 10th I'm making a presentation at our Cub Scout Roundtable on how to have effective unit Committee meetings. I think there are some general guidelines in how to make that happen that are easily understood and followed for those interested in doing so.

I can't recall ever meeting an adult whose purpose in Scouting appeared to be personal glory and recognition.

Hello Fabs, Sorry you ran afoul of bad advice that may prevent you from receiving your Eagle. You acted reasonably, so the rest of my post isn't intended as criticism of your actions. My intention is to explore one of the elements of Personal Management that people are well advised to learn and follow, although many adults never learn: However much you think you are entitled to run up against the edge of deadlines and requirements, the smart move is to stay well away from the sharp edge of possible disaster. The Personal Management Merit Badge discusses this some in one requirement: a. Define the project. What is your goal? b. Develop a timeline for your project that shows the steps you must take from beginning to completion. c. Describe your project. d. Develop a list of resources. Identify how these resources will help you achieve your goal. When you are developing a timeline, the prudent thing to do is to stay well away from DEADlines. Because if you fall afoul of DEADlines for any reason, you are, well --- a dead duck. This applies to lots of things, not just time. When driving a car, the way to avoid trouble is not to drive within the legal boundaries, but to drive WELL within the legal boundaries. People imagine they can get involved in confrontations with people if they stay within the law --- but it's not at all unusual for things to get out of hand. Usually you should be able to trust the advice of a Scoutmaster of the kind you received. But as it turns out, that was unwise. Too live a life of permanent caution and prudence can be boring. But at a minimum, if you decide to venture out to the edge, you should realize that you are doing so and be doing it for a good reason and taking care to recognize the risks you are running. This is wisdom I've usually learned the hard way.

What purposes do you expect this association to fill? I would be concerned this would become a group of insiders --- an "old boys club." Personally I think there's a lot to be said for spreading manure around the garden, rather than heaping it all together. So to speak!(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

There's a milestone. So what's next? I understand there's a district chair position vacant....

I think my favorite position was being Tiger Cub Den Leader. You just can't beat Tiger Cubs in being enthusiastic about almost anything ---- for five minutes, ten minutes tops. Then they are ready to go on to the next activity, and you had better be ready too! I reprise that role by leading our district Tiger Twilight Camp and being the Tiger Cub Den Leader trainer for the district and our council annual training event. Tiger Cubs is a critical activity packs need to get up and running every year, and too often that can be tough to do. I've never been Webelos Den Leader. My theory is that that's the toughest Cub Scout position to do WELL. It shouldn't be Cub Scouts any more, but a genuine transition to Boy Scouts, with several camping opportunities and partnerships with Scout troops. Rather often Webelos Dens aren't led properly by adults, with the result often being boys dropping out of the program or failing to go on to Boy Scouts. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Hmmm. Never done a Boy Scout outing with patrol boxes. On the one hand it sounds kind of neat. On the other hand it sounds like a lot of junk to haul around. What are the odds that patrol boxes get stored with dirty plates and such?

Hello Basement, What happens in three weeks?

Hello Basement, Running it by the book minimizes problems and risks. It actually sounds like a great activity, if it didn't violate the rules. I suppose National doesn't trust packs to follow those rules the way your pack is doing.

> Are you sure? My presumption is that YPT records are maintained by National and that people are just dropped. I sort of find it hard to believe that my council has the gumption and organization to do that on their own. > Heh, heh! Best laugh of the day!

I think that memorizing the ascii codes for various symbols and such would have more practical utility than morse code these days. I would compare it to slide rules, which provided greatly utility for about 300 years before being made obsolete by calculators.

> Now you have me wishing I could set up a BB gun range at our June 2-3 Pack overnight! Do you set up a formal range according to BSA standards? Is it operated according to BSA methods? Do you have adult leaders who have gone through the BSA training? We have plenty of fun activities planned for our campout. The formality of following BSA rules would really discourage me from having that as an activity even if it were permitted. I use the availability of BB guns and archery to help sell participation in Cub Scout Day Camp. That makes the ban on pack level BB gun shooting reasonably useful and palatable. > Are you paying a first ever compliment to your DE or should this be interpreted as lack of care and concern on his part? Suppose someone is injured by BB gun shooting at your pack outing. Do you suppose your DE would remember being aware of giving you tacit approval for this activity?

Unfortunately, morse code is pretty much an obsolete skill in the digital age. Cool looking strip, though! I might get me one of those. (Thinking back on the good old days of rag chewing on 40 meters on my homebrew CW transmitter made mostly from parts from an old television set.)

ScoutNut makes a variety of good points, but I'm surprised at his surprise that adult leader membership is often poorly organized and maintained. Getting adult leaders through the application process is increasingly a complicated and burdensome process, especially when councils require a variety of mandatory training. The opportunity for people to fall through the cracks or for someone to just throw away applications rather than jump through all the hoops is there at multiple stages. I expect in the years to come we will find more and more people registered as "Scout Parents" and nothing more, if that. Just as an example, my district has found quite a number of people who were dropped as registered district leaders because their Youth Protection training expired after two years. They weren't notified by e-mail to renew it, they were just DROPPED. You'd think it would be easy enough for National to send out e-mails 90 days, sixty days and 10 days before YPT expired, but nooooooooooooo!

I've been a Unit Commissioner for a pack since 2004 (that's a district position, actually). I was a Tiger Cub Den leader for a year in each of two different packs at the same time for a year. (2008-2009) A Wolf Den Leader for a couple of months. (2009) Then took over as Cubmaster for two years. (2009-2010) As of the first of the year ---- Chartered Organization Rep and Pack Committee Member. I gave up the COR position after a couple of months when an excellent person for that position sought me out at Scout Sunday services. Now I'll be taking over as Pack Treasurer as a Pack Committee Member. I've been having a tough time holding down a steady job in the Cub Pack lately.

One of my biases is that when someone is tired of doing a Scout leadership job, they should be and deserve to be replaced promptly. Our pack treasurer notified us that she wanted to be relieved in December. We found a parent willing to take over, but she didn't act to do so and the family wound up leaving the pack. So we were back to square one. I told the Committee Chair I would do the job if she wished. After some delays, I was told to go ahead. One thing or another and I still haven't taken over, although recent delays are due to the current Treasurer. May 12th is the newly scheduled date for that change.

How effective are your pack committee meetings?

What is your attitude about keeping families in your troop if paying dues or activity fees is a burden to the family? To what extent do you think ability to pay is an issue? There are reasons why businesses send out monthly bills: they tend to get paid. I'd have a bias towards sending out monthly bills for 2-3 months, and see what happens. Incidentally, I've just been appointed our Pack Treasurer. As far as I know, we've collected money before providing services, so I'm not expecting this to be much of an issue. I could be surprised I suppose. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

I bet the District Executive put a gun in the back of the District Chair to get a larger FOS contribution.

Hello jonathanrbaker, Sounds like an excellent plan. And an ambitious one for a pack that recently collapsed. It's taken me a lot more than a year to get to those levels with the failed packs I've worked with, one since 2004 and the other since 2008. Any particular issues you are struggling with now?