SeattlePioneer

While most Boy Scout come through Cub Scouts, your open house would be a goodpportunity to invite boys who are 5th and sixth graders and not in Cub Scouts to come visit. The best way to do that is to visit schools with those grade levels and talk to 5th and sixth graders while they are having lunch. Have a flyer inviting them to your open house. You can efficiently go from table to table and talk about your troop program of hiking and camping and ask who would be interested in visiting your troop and finding out how to join your program. Many schools will welcome such visits --- some wont. Talk to your DE about how welcome schools in your area would be to this kind of approach.

Millions of people keep attending baseball games despite the fact that their team keeps getting a shellacking and doesn't win the World's Series. Politics is no worse. Personally, I find the idea that the government is actually going to cater to your views a remarkable one. Only rarely do I vote for people who clearly reflect my views and who actually get elected. Most of life is a compromise. Why should politics be different? And I think we underrate our politicians. The most important job politicians have is to create a system where we can live together in peace. We have done a remarkably fine job of that, by and large. And one of the great sports in the United States is not baseball or football, but the game of politics, which anyone can play as much as they might wish. You can PLAY as much as you wish, but you have no guarantee you will win by doing so. Personally I was a liberal and Democrat from 1965 to 1984, with some time out as a left wing radical from 1967-1970 or so. Since 1984 I've been a Reagan Republican and more recently a Tea Party type. I look forward to an entertaining evening of election returns tonight, perhaps winning a few and certainly losing a few. In politics like Cub Scouts, we do our best...

<<~~If not, you are personally liable for fraud, posing as a non-profit organization under a fraudulently acquired EIN..... >> This sounds like a wild exaggeration. Out of thousands or tens of thousands of Scout units doing what you deplore, do you have an example of an outfit being treated this way? Never heard of that myself, and I suspect the IRS has more important things to do than pick on Cub Scout packs. If you want to nitpick all the laws out there, you'd eliminate 95% of Scout units. How many units get food handler permits for adults and Cub Scouts and health department permits before serving up snacks at den meetings? Keep an even strain.

<<~~ If the requirement of believing in a supernatural supreme being stands>> Where does it say "supernatural"? Personally, I'm not inclined to cross examine children or adults about this issue. If someone gets up and says "I'm an atheist" then I'd make inquiries. I had a Tiger Cub do that once!

Frankly, I find this kind of complaint that attempt to guilt people into voting objectionable. People are free to vote or not vote as they wish, and to complain or not complain as they wish.

See how BSA has rules so cumbersome as to effectively make desirable activities impossible. More of these all the time. On the other hand, drownings are a major source of lives lost in Scouting.

< >> Sounds like a fine system to me. However, the pack with which I work has a limited number of volunteers and thus we have to choose where we spend our time. Perhaps someone will choose to provide the leadership that would lead to the kind of desireable situation you describe. But last year we had no parent agree to manage the popcorn sale, and we didn;t participate in that last year. This year, the only person willing to organize the popcorn sale was the Cubmaster, who was therefore unreasonably burdened and distracted from doing the job of the Cubmaster. In Cub Scouts, our motto is "Do Your Best!" Often enough I find myself doing my best but still finding it could easily be better. So I commend your unit's practices, but I don't see an early way of emulating them.

<> These are good explanations of the WEAKNESS of the Wood Badge program, in my opinion. Developing adult leadership skills is not a proper aim of Scouting, as I apply the Boy Scout Mission. BSA wants to market the Wood Badge program widely and advertize it as useful business training. I think that dilutes what the program ought to be --- effective training on how to lead Boy Scout troops in particular, and BSA units, district and council in general. As I mentioned before, I took WB in 1985. Thirty years later, what I learned there most effectively was not "leadership," but the value of "working my ticket....." for life. BSA is a values oriented organization. In my view, Wood Badge should be instilling the values of the BSA Mission statement in adults, not abstractions like "leadership."

<> I'm guessing this is no coincidence. Have you worked amateur radio into your Scout program, and if so how?

Our pack charged $60 in past years, $84 this year due to increased BSA dues. Families that sell $300 in popcorn get a free pack membership. Families keep 20% of popcorn sales above the $300 level in a Scout Account.

<<. Considering that no money goes into any ISA and that all the money goes into the general fund of the troop, it's kind of an anomaly, but I have NO ONE complaining. I also have one parent from every family registered in an adult position. Stosh >> That's excellent! Reason we use Scout Accounts is so families can, if they wish, pay for all Scouting expenses without leaning on the family budget. Or, they can pay cash for stuff including pack dues if their time is more valuable than cash. Also --- A Scout is Thrifty --- which means paying you own way. This allows boys and families to pay their own way in Scouting.

< Stosh >> A ticked off parent and a lawyer can always find something to complain about. I doubt if complaining about having an EIN is likely to be very high on that list. As I noted, I don't see BSA guidance on this issue, about Scout Accounts or whatever. If BSA adopt a clear rule about such stuff, I'd follow it. Until they do, I'm forging on ahead. I have heard ever so many warnings to Scouters about such stuff, but never encountered a unit audited by the IRS over such an issue. There are a universe of things you can worry about if you wish ---- help yourself.

<<"Yeah, if you don't sign up to work, your boy can't be part of the program." -> There's a PR nightmare just waiting to happen. >> Well, I haven't done that, but I don;t think there's anything wrong with it as a policy, used judiciously. Personally, I wouldn't burden the single mom working two jobs and barely making things work. Go with God.... But a good many other families are Artful Dodgers, who avoid helping out unless unit leaders make pretty clear demands on them. Then they are probably willing to help out. Tapping into these folks would be my aim with this kind of policy. Having some pretty clear expectations of families to support the program seems quite reasonable to me. Otherwise, you are going to burden other unit leaders unreasonably, or wind up with a failed unit when the existing leaders leave.

Well, it's rechartering time, and what a burdensome nuisance THAT often is! I took charge of that twice, and said never again! I saddled the CC with it for a couple of years, but he moved out of the area this summer, perhaps to avoid getting nailed a third time. And no other likely donkey available on which to pin that tail. So this fall I decided that I would do rechartering the EASY way. My aim was to recharter with ONLY those Scouts who had already paid their dues by the middle of September, and to re register only adults we needed and who had their YPTo date. (Chasing adults to complete training or getting new adults registered as leaders and youth to get dues paid are a major reason why rechartering is a gigantic nuisance, I more or less adhered to those goals and got the recharter turned in to the DE a week after they were handed out at Roundtable. I was told we were not only the first unit in the district to complete rechartering, but the first in the COUNCIL! So now as additional youth and adults need to be registered, I mail those in along with a check for each small group. Additional youth or adults who were dropped on the recharter can be added back on again upon request to the DE. This makes things a lot simpler.

So what will your unit be charging for dues in 2015, if you charge dues?

<< Sorry, Seattle, I guess my knowledge of "archaic literary" adverbs is sub-par. >> Heh, heh! The awkward part was when I had a typo on the title of the thread and it came out "White Order of the Arrow" Then I discovered I couldn't edit the title of a thread to correct that. Fortunately one of the moderators must have corrected what otherwise would have looked strange, if not offensive!

<> You apply for it on line. Anyone can do so. < >> Don't be silly. In my experience BSA is quite vague about such things. Large numbers of Scout units have their own checking accounts, EIN numbers, Scout Accounts and so on, and BSA guidance on such issues is vague or nonexistant.

For purposes of Cub Scouting I explain the "duty to god" as 1. Respecting the family's religious beliefs or practices 2. Respecting the religious beliefs of other families. And in Cub Scouts, parents sign off on achievements/requirements. Parents are free to decide how and when such achievements are completed. And frankly, if parents decided that one or more Cub Scout achievements were inappropriate or burdensome, I'd be perfectly OK with them deciding to bypass such achievements. As far as I'm concerned, Cub Scouts is about framing a useful family program that can be used to raise a family. But that family program belong to the family and parents,

<<~~ I'm not sure why you say it should be more for the Boy Scout side of the program as the leadership development, team building, teaching/learning methods, and program goals all work well for both sides (IMO). >> Well, we have separate Roundtables for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. We DON'T have Scoutmaster's for Cub Scouts or Cubmaster's for Boy Scouts ( or we shouldn't anyway). Seems to me that the programs are different enough that they have, and deserve, different leadership and training. So WHY have the same Wood Badge course for both? I suspect that it's just easier to lump everyone into one course. I doubt that it's BETTER to lump everyone into one course.

It's time for rechartering. Who does that? I think I might try calling each parent and asking them to volunteer to do some needed task in order for the boy to be able to register for the next year.

Federal Courts are now deciding that homosexuals get special rights to marriage that very few other social relationships enjoy. So homosexuality rules these days. Despite that, of course, liberals don't want BSA to be a source of DIVERSITY by excluding homosexuals. Generally speaking, I find that liberals are opposed to diversity if it differs in some way from their own bright ideas and social theories.

<<~~A vote by whom? The governing association is the charter organization. Your pack/troop does not exist except under their umbrella ... >> Saying this doesn't make it so. Our Pack has it's own EIN and checking account. The pack moved to a different CO a year ago, but continued to use the meeting place provided by the previous CO.

< >> Does it advance the MISSION of the Boy Scouts? In my opinion, no. In fact, the promotion of Indian mythology gets in the way of OA as a service organization, in my opinion. This is just stuff left over from the early days of Scouting when it was heavily based on Indian mythology. I don't think many 11-18 years olds have much interest in living Indian, although a few can apparently be persuaded to take an interest in that. But not many. And that gets in the way of the Mission of Boy Scouts, in my opinion. This is about the same as promoting the culture of ancient Druids if that were the aim of OA.

<> I began as a volunteer with Boy Scouts, and I've always been interested in recruiting more Boy Scouts. However, the most effective way to do that in my experience is to grow Cub Scouts who will become Boy Scouts. Anyway, the past ten years I've been working mostly with the Cub Scout program. It would be interesting to see what a WoodBadge like program for Cub Scouting would involve. I've seen a few Cub Scouters take Wood Badge, but not many, and I think Wood Badge shoult be a program aimed at Scouters in the Boy Scout program. But what should a Wiood Badge like program for Cub Scouts look like, and what might it be called?

Keep in mind that today's liberals really don't care a fig about "diversity" either. They want their values rto rule just like the groups they oppose, and are delighted with the opportunity tocoerce others into following their values or read other groups out of polite society when they get the chance to do so. It's the pot calling the kettle black, By and large, people LIKE their differences.