SeattlePioneer

The BSA guide to recruiting adults for Boy Scouts is "Selecting Quality Leaders" For Cub Scouts " Selecting Cub Scout Leadership" You can probably find these by Googling the name.

<> We are currently offering to make a permanent plaque for that troop which would be used to recognize Boy Scouts who have served as Den Chiefs. My hope would be that it would inspire more boys to take on that responsibility.

Personally, I use Quicken for my personal finances and a small Cub Pack. <. We have Scout Accounts, which are kept as separate Quicken accounts.

<> Tough! In my opinion, BSA makes WAY too many demands on volunteers to manage their complicated administrative procedures ---rechartering being a prime example. I seriously considered dumping the rechartering back on the DE altogether, but devised the strategy I devised which made things pretty easy. My preference is to not get involved in the rechartering at all. But I also hate to saddle another volunteer with a needlessly complex, cumbersome and annoying job to do. So my solution is to make the task as simple as possible for ME as a volunteer. As I understand it, the Council staff can pretty easily reactivate a membership for some significant amount of time after the new year. I provide them with the names to reactivate and the BSA identification number ---and a check --- which is $24 PER PERSON these days you know. If they have to do some work to complete that, tough. Frankly, I've had no complaints from the DE or council. The DE did recognize me at our last District Committee Meeting. He was laboring over listing the many units that hadn't completed their rechartering and that HE was laboring over with hand holding and encouraging leaders to complete the process. He recognized ME for being the first in the council to complete rechartering. He seemed to be happy with that, and no doubt happy that he didn't have to do a lot of hand holding as was common among MANY other units. (This was at our December District Committee Meeting). If you want to use more conventional methods to complete rechartering, help yourself. If your unit finds it burdensome and difficult, they might want to consider the simplified method I have described.

<<Lashings - Room 692>> Wow! Must be some VERY orderlyScout Troops in that council!

The problem is that BSA has explicit rules. Furthermore, they REQUIRE us to be trained in those rules and get a receipt for the training. If there are no problems. you have no problems. If there happens to BE a problem, YOU are responsible if you knowingly permit violations of the rules. If you violate the rules, BSA might choose to cut you loose should legal action be taken against you. You should expect plaintiff's lawyers to cross examine you about the training you took and your disinclination to take those rules seriously. AND you should BE PREPARED to have a few million dollar judgment lodged against you and have pretty much everything you own taken to satisfy a judgment against you. If we have a lawyer in the group, I'd be interested in their advice on these issues.

The Mt. Baker Council. located just north of Seattle has their council training conference Saturday and I signed up to go. I'm signed up for the following classes: Session 1: 23 - STEM & Nova for Cub Scouts; Session 2: 6 - Science; Session 3: 7 - Cub Scout Wood Craft; Session 4: 19 - Getting Parents involved/Creating Leaders; Session5: 13 - Derby Workshop ) Those following other threads will note that by signing up for the "Getting Parents Involved" class, I'm interested in finding new or additional ways to find new adult leaders. Who else takes advantage of this kind of council training? What have been your experiences and what classes have been particularly rewarding for you?

My, but rechartering can be a pain in the neck! This year I devised a method that makes it EASY. MY experience is that 95% of rechartering aggravation comes because people don't do stuff in a timely manner. They don;t get trained. They let their YPT training expire. They don't pay their dues for the new year. And so on. My method bypasses all that. This year, as soon as I got the recharter packet, I looked at which adult leaders were eligible to have their memberships renewed. Those are the people who were enrolled as leaders for 2015. Then I looked at who was eligible for 2015 youth membership --- all of them boys who had sold our minimum amount of popcorn. Those boys had their membership renewed. Everyone else was dropped. Well, that was easy! I got the recharter packet on a Thursday, and by Saturday had the computerized recharter completed. Monday I got the Institutional Head signature and the Cubmaster's signature, and turned the recharter packet in to the DE on Thursday, a week after it had been issued. Our unit was FIRST IN THE COUNCIL to complete rechartering! A week ago I got a final list of popcorn sales, and several additional families got our "free" membership. I sent our DE a list of those names and their BSA registration number from the recharter, along with a check and asked them to reactivate those memberships. Monday I had several families pay me their Pack dues. I sent those names into the DE with a check and request that they be reactivated. I'll do the same as additional people pay for their pack memberships. That's FAR easier than going back and forth trying to flog memberships out of people when they aren't ready to make that commitment. Anyway, I like my method! I'd be interested in comments and alternative methods used by other units to complete rechartering.

Personally my respect for the LDS church has grown over the years as I've seen the generosity of spirit and cooperation shown by LDS Scouters and Church leaders towards Scouting in general. Frankly, I think there are lots of things about LDS practices that seem smart and supportive of families to me. For example --- I like the idea of families being encouraged to have a years supply of food on hand. To me, this sounds like families deciding that THEY are responsible for the welfare of their families, not the government and not Mr. Safeway. I'm IMPRESSED by the number of young people going on missions, often to foreign lands. There was a good movie about that a few years ago by a young man who went to Tonga or some similar Polynesian Isle. That's an impressive level of commitment and probably has consequences for the church with added understanding about foreign cultures. I don't know if LDS families have lower divorce rates --- I wouldn;t be surprised if they do. If you consider issues like that, perhaps it's not surprising that some other churches don;t want their members seeing too much of that....

<> Heh, heh! You make a convincing case that if Plan A fails, go to Plan B! No argument. I guess the question is which method you'd prefer to try as Plan A. Obviously, I have my biases --- but if others have other methods, they are welcome to them and I'd be glad to hear about successes they have had. My experience is that making a concerted effort to ask the best person to do the job is likely to produce better results than a "my way or we cancel the program" approach. And I've cancelled programs in the past ---- notably our popcorn sale a year ago. This year the only person willing to do it was the Cubmaster. He did an excellent job, but it's unreasonable to ask someone to do two major jobs like that. On the bright side, I believe the Cubmaster has taken a real interest in finding a couple of parents to do that next year!

< Next year, take the same program, throw it out on the wall, maybe a combination of the "tried and true", something kinda "new and different", and toss in a couple of the "oldies but goodies" that didn't get enough signups last year. Maybe even a couple of blank sheets for someone from the parent group that has something they would like to do and it's not on the wall. I just started a new troop within the last year. I use my system and I have a full compliment of adult leadership of people who said they wanted to help. I didn't need to even recruit. The programming, on the other hand with the signup sheets is not for the parents, but for the boys in that we are a boy-led program and they decide on the programming. It would be different for a Pack setting, of course, where the leadership comes from the adults. Stosh>> If it works for you, fine. But I work in marginal to failing units --- typically about 1/3rd of those in our district. With another 1/3 that periodically will fail if they don't have some kind of support when they need it from time to time. Out in the 'burbs, I hear reports that they pretty much just ring a bell and flocks of children and adults sign up for Scouts. I would suppose that your methods would be all that's needed in such circumstances. But they aren't likely to work in weak or failing units where people are posting anguished cries for help in recruiting adult leaders. Those people need help in combing leaders out from among available parents, and persuading as many people as possible to help support the unit. BSA puts out a brochure on recommended methods of recruiting Boy Scout and Cub Scout units, and those brochures are on line. I'll have to see if I can find them and post links to them.

<> Didn't you just gratuitously disclose that you have a security clearance?

<> Yes.... Where IS that curly horned antelope?

Thjanks for your last excellent post! I began working with my current pack eight years ago when it was down to a single boy, We had 23 boys egistered at the end of 2014. So I've had your experience of slowly building up a pack. << There is another pack in the area so this new pack doesn't ever expect to have huge numbers. >> That's true for us, too. One of my main reasons for working to prevent the dissolution of this pack was that aneighboring Scout Troop has a good program but has struggled to get new Scouts. A failed Cub Pack might have led to a failed Scout Troop too. Another Scout Troop has a powerful influence in the neighborhood, and has poached a number of Webelos Scouts graduating from our pack program. While my bias is to funnel boys to that smaller troop, the stronger troop has used sneaky tactics such as sending a graduate of our Cub Pack back to us to serve as a Den Chief. The NERVE! << that has really helped us be able to plan events such as a Pinewood Derby, Raingutter Regatta etc.... We are using every opportunity to recruit such as hosting STEM nights at the local elementary school and having meetings directly after school for maximum participation.>> Persistant recruiting is an exellent strategfy for growth! And using the kind of events you describe as a way to attract interested boys and parents is the strategy I use and find effective. Sounds like you are doing a terrific job!

<< What happens when the best person is identified and all the begging, pleading, whining, cajoling, threatening, and doing all kinds of other things to embarrass oneself and they still say, "No, not interested!" How does that fit into the best guarantee of success scenario? >> The BSA recommendation is to have your committee decide on the best person, to then make an appointment to see that person and for the committee to meet with that person and ask them to serve. If they don;t agree, go on to your second choice. Many people are flattered to be invited that way, and are a lot more willing to serve when asked. You have a chance to answer their questions and objections, Frankly, we donlt usually follow that procedure in detail. Often the Committee Chair or Cubmaster and I will ask someone to fill a position at a Committeee meeting or after a Den or Pack meeting. Since I'm the perpetual Tiger Cub Den Leader for our pack, I often have had a chance to become acquainted with parents and identify capable prospective leaders, and they have usually had a chance to become acquainted with Cub Scouts, the Cubmaster and myself before we ask them to take on a real job. Usually we ask parents to help out in small ways first, which is easier for people to accept and you get a chance to see if people will do what they agree to do, and the quality of that performance. Personally, I prefer to avoid ambushing parents by making demands enforced by the threat of cancelling program. That may need to be done, but it's a last resort. That's what I do, anyway. And it's a good imitation of the methods recommended by BSA. But if you have success with other methods, help yourself. At our last Pack Committee meeting, I asked our Bear Den Leader if he would be willing to serve as the Webelos Den Leader next year. He agreed to do so, and asked about training and such. The existing Webelos Den Leader, who has done an outstanding job, has agreed to work with his replacement and help him understand and plan the program. That's a big help, since there are substantial differenced between the Cub Scout and Weblos programs if they are done right. I might add that in the eight years I've been working with this pack, ALL the Den Leaders and Cubmasters have been men. I suspect that one reason is that they have usually seen me as the Tiger Cub Den Leader, which I think encourages fathers and grandfather to participate more and to be more willing to serve as program leaders. My experience is that a lot of Moms, especially single Moms, value that adult male association for their Cub Scout. If I had a Mother or Grandmother who was the best prospect to be a Den Leader, I'd be glad to ask them to serve. But it's been the men who have been the best prospects and have been willing to serve. Moms tend to serve as Committee Chair or Committee Members, or in other positions.

<> We also have our district meeting and Roundtables at an LDS church. We have a district marble tournament each year held in the same LDS church. Our Klondike Derby was just held at an LDS camp. So the LDS church has been VERY welcoming and accomodating to our district and it's program! We have an outstanding district Assistant Commissioner who looks after all the LDS units. What a terrific organization! The Cathjolic Churches are in fairly distant second place by comparison. Unfortunately, the LDS practice around here of assigning people to Scout leadership positions and then rotating them around after a couple of years tends to lead to weak units. But they are certainly out there trying to do a good job.

These days when Indian tribes go to petition the Great White Father, I imagine they and their lawyers mostly wear business suits.

< >> Actually, this is pretty much exactl;y what BSA recommends: find the best person to do the job that needs to be done and make a concerted effort to effectively ask themn to do the job. <> Getting the wrong person to volunteer is a formula for a real failure. Finding the best person to do the job and getting them to do it is your best guarantee of success. <> No. Identify the best person to do the job and ask them to do it. The "best person" probably is not an existing leader, but someone who has already shown their ability and interest by doing another job and is ready for another leadership opportunity. For a Blue and Gold dinner, I'd probably start by finding a promising person or two to be the Blue and Gold Chair assistants, and then go to your prospexctive chair and tell them that you have an assistant or two to help them do the job.

I'd be interested in hearing about the plans for the new Cub Pack, including what kind of help you can expect from the council and other volunteers.

< >> Actually, BSA recommends that unit leaders review a list of those availabole to fill a leadership position. The BEST person for that job is determined, and leaders make an appointment with that person to ask them to serve. The idea is to find the best people to lead the organization and to persuade them to serve. My district is currently going through exactly that procedure to identify and fill vacant leadership procesdures.

The farthest packs are about 10-12 miles from the Roundtable location. Most are probably withing about five miles. I'm about five miles away --- about 15 minutes by car or an hour by public transit --- each way.

<> Actually, we are living in a world where educated liberals think that facts are the be all and end all of politics, and once they state THEIR facts, only unreasonable fools will fail to agree with them. The reverse is much closer to the truth. Have you considered why political differences are so persistent and hard to change? It's not because one side doesn't undersatand "the facts." If facts were the real issue, the world would have far fewer areas of political disagreement. However, a large part of political disagreement is because of the different VALUES people and cultures have. Differing values are persistant, and very often not subject to being resolved by "facts." I always find it amusing that my liberal friends are so ready to believe they have the facts on their side, when the facts are very often not the issue at all.

<> As I said before, that's a fine system if you are willing to have 2/3rds of the Cub Packs fail. I always work with Scout units on the edge of failure, myself. I've been working with a Cub Pack that was down to a single Cub Scout eight years ago. This year we had 23 boys by the end of the year. Despite that, it's always a struggle to find good leadership. I leade the Tiger Cub Den each year in order to 1) provide an example of an excellent den program and 2) identify one or more adults who are interested in being den leaders and capable of doing a good job. Last year, I didn't have anyone willing and able to do that job until we did spring recruiting in April. Despite that, the new parents are doing a fine job as Wolf Den Leaders. It's not easy, in my experience. Dumping the job on someone not interested in doing it or not able to do it is simply a formula for a failed den. But new leadership can be searched for and cultivated. And recruiting enough boys makes it more likely that you will find someone willing and able to do the job.

The ideas of "Dead white European Males" have been ridiculed for decades. Yet they were trotted out and put on display rather widely in the wake of the Parish shootings. Why? What happened last week to multiculturalism and being tolerant of the varying cultural values of diverse immigrant groups? What about freedom of EXPRESSION? The Charlie Hebdo editors had their rights of freedom of expression, why should the Jihadists have their own right of free expression? Of course, that proved to be hard on some journalists, but they are the ones promoting radical concepts of freedome of expression anyway. In the wake of the Fergusun, Ms episode, we have seen left wing groups use their freedom of expression with murder, arson, lotting, property destruction, assault and general mayhem directed at society as a whole. "no justice, no peace!" is the liberal mantra these days. This asserts that the shouters expect to get what they want or they feel free to violate any laws they choose and violate the rights of anyone until; they get what they want. Seems like that should have been the mantra of the Paris shooters. For decades, left wingers have been blythely attacking the rights of other people while complaining constantly about THEIR rights. As demonstrated last week in Paris, that can work the other way. But until journalists and left wingers start getting shot and their heads cut off, advocacy of tolerant multiculturalism seems peachy. But when the left wing starts getting THEIR heads cut off, suddenl;y the ideas of Dead White European Males seem to have more relevance.

Why do you suppose that the recent attack took place in Paris rather than Tokyo?