scoutldr

I have 30 years' experience in the Occupational Safety and Health field. I can tell you that if "common sense" were common, I would be out of a job. Maturity and common sense have nothing to do with it. That's why there are Federal laws governing safety rules on the job. Are you sure that the sub-roof system is stable and will hold the weight of multiple people? Will you have fall-protection harness systems in place (which are very expensive)? Will you erect warning barriers around the perimeter to prevent people from walking off the side (very common)? If a scout falls and breaks his back, are you willing to give up most of your future earnings? Liability waivers are generally worthless if there is negligence involved. You need to think real hard about this. Why not have a fund raiser and then pay professionals to do the job who have the proper experience and equipment?

If the church wants to have a fundraiser to buy you a trailer, that's fine, and the donations to the church will be deductible. But units are prohibited from seeking cash donations. A unit fundraising application must be filed with your council, and approved by your SE. The rules for fundraising are printed on it. Sorry to be a wet blanket. That's what popcorn sales and car washes are for. Then, once the trailer is purchased, you have to figure out how to register it for license and insurance. Since the Troop is not a legal entity, is your CO willing to "own" the trailer on paper?

Good question. I, too, cannot find a reference, however my "spidey safety sense" says "BAD IDEA". If a monkey bridge cannot be more than 5 feet off the ground, and any other "climbing" requires training and safety equipment, I think your answer can be extrapolated from that. Were it me, I would say "adults only" working at heights, with scouts performing support work on the ground. And the adults should be following all OSHA regulations (while they don't technically apply to volunteers, they are still a good idea). Fall protection devices, roof edge guards, etc.

I guess I'm just lucky I made it to this age without a "lifeline." I made it all through Scouts without having to call Mom once, and I'm still alive. Thank God for miracles.

I did not choose to be fat. I just am. I was fat coming out of the womb, I was the fattest kid in my grade school class, and I am still fat at age 50. I eat a balanced diet and in no more quantity than those around me. I do not have six Whoppers at a sitting. In fact, I don't have them at all. I have dieted, exercised and prayed for deliverance from my affliction, since it causes me to violate the Scout Oath (physically fit) and be a poor "role model", although I am generally a good person otherwise. I tried the new "diet drugs" and they damn near killed me. I have concluded that being fat is in my genes, just like diabetes, high cholesterol, skin color, and high blood pressure are in some other people. I hope I don't get drummed out of Scouting and burn in eternal damnation because of it.

"The ranger said that in her judgment, the group did the right thing."

This is one reason why I think that co-registration in both a Troop and Crew can be awkward. If a Scout is having trouble advancing in his troop (strict adherence to requirements?), then he can get it through the Crew, if the Advisor is more liberal (not in any way implying that you are!). Kinda like when we were growing up and Dad said NO, so we went to ask Mom. I have seen boys transfer to other troops just because of this, and soon make Eagle. Perhaps the fact that he is "not very active" in the Troop is affecting his "Scout Spirit" and leadership, thus preventing him from advancing? If he's not active in the troop, he's obviously not "into it", so why doesn't he just register with the crew? Problem solved. I'm not an "expert" in Venturing, but I know of nothing that would prevent what you want to do. Put your poncho on, however.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

"Cambria said several other key pieces of equipment could have helped: _Water misters and large, outdoor fans _Personalized fans for the children _Tarps to shield the waiting Scouts from the sun Such suggestions will be considered for the Jamboree scheduled for 2010, Fairrer said." Any scout who has his Weather MB knows that the true measure of humidity is the dew point. In Eastern VA, we had dew points above 80 degrees last week. A dew point above 70 degrees, and the humidity is said to be uncomfortable. Water misters will not work in those conditions. They only serve to dilute the sweat, and the surrounding air is already saturated with water vapor, so evaporative cooling of the skin will not take place. Fans blowing 97-102 degree air on a body at 98.6 will likewise do little for cooling purposes. Yes, this was an unusually hot and humid week, likely the worst of the year that we will see. In Virginia, we have summer heat, humidity, hurricanes and thunderstorms. That's the way it is. Planning an event 4 years out, it's impossible to predict if you will have good weather. What we don't need is BSA National taking advice from self-proclaimed "experts" who don't know what they are talking about. We have experts already in the organization...just ask. Some of these tragedies could have been averted, like the tent fiasco. I'll admit I've never been to a Jambo, but why is a troop contingent renting a large "dining tent" from a local contractor? And if the contractor is being paid to erect it, why are there any scouts and scouters involved at all??? If dining tents are required, why aren't they provided in the site and ready to go when the troop gets there??? The Scouter who had the heart attack must have already had coronary artery disease. If he had not been at the Jambo, the clot would have busted loose somewhere else, like while cutting his grass or sitting in his La-Z-Boy. In the safety business, we don't assign blame, but we do perform risk assessments, mishap investigations and root cause analyses. That's the way to learn what went wrong and why, so it doesn't happen again. I'm also curious as to what "rigorous safety training" that scouter had before he was allowed to sign up??? I see a new mandatory training course in our future...G2SS. Perhaps my fellow OSH professionals on the forum and I can volunteer to help develop it? The only solution is to move the Jambo site to a location known for good, temperate weather. San Diego, maybe? (This message has been edited by scoutldr)

We sell what we sell and don't sweat it. We always seem to have enough to run the Troop, and that's all we need.

Boy Scout officials apologize for comments about leaders By RACHEL D'ORO Associated Press Writer ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) -- National Boy Scouts officials apologized for remarks implying that four adult volunteers shared responsibility for their own deaths while setting up a tent beneath a power line at the national Jamboree in Virginia. Spokesman Stephen Medlicott said Friday the group wanted to clear up "some confusion" about the scouts' position. The Boy Scouts have "not assigned blame" to the Alaska Scout leaders involved in Monday's deaths, national officials said in a statement issued Thursday. "We apologize for any statement we've made which might be construed as assigning blame." The statement came after Jamboree spokesman Gregg Shields said the Alaska group had ignored scouting teachings by putting the tent under a power line at Fort A.P. Hill, the Bowling Green, Va., Army base where the 10-day event is being held. He also said the group leaders had taken the "somewhat unusual" step of hiring a contractor to help with the task. "Boy Scouts are taught not to put their tents under trees or under power lines. I don't know what happened in that case," Shields said Wednesday. The Virginia tent company hired for the job sent two workers to set up two dining canopies at the Jamboree, Alaska Scout officials said. The tent workers set up the first canopy while the leaders and Scouts set up sleeping tents, Bill Haines, a Scout executive in Alaska, said in a statement. The accident occurred when the contractors asked the Alaska leaders for help raising the second canopy, Haines said. Some Scouts had been watching as the metal pole at the center of the large, white dining tent touched power lines. The tent caught fire and the men burned. Killed were Michael J. Shibe, 49, Mike Lacroix, 42, and Ronald H. Bitzer, 58, all of Anchorage. Also killed was Scott Edward Powell, 57, who had recently moved from Anchorage to Perrysville, Ohio. Shibe had two sons at the Jamboree and Lacroix had one. Three adults, including the two tent workers, were injured. One of the injured people returned to the Jamboree after being released from the hospital. The Army is investigating the accident. The Boy Scouts are "cooperating closely," Medlicott said. A spokesman for the canopy supplier - Tents & Events, a Fishersville, Va., division of a company called RentQuick.com - said the company is also cooperating with the investigation. "When it is completed, information will then be available," attorney Michael Harman of Richmond, Va., wrote Friday in an e-mail. "That's all we can say at this point other to extend our condolences and sympathies to the families."

Camping in open fields only.

Any Scouting function is open to any parent who wants to observe.

Correct. According to Mike Walton's website, it (and the 75th award) are worn above the wearer's left pocket, above the service stars and below the world crest.

The 50th Anniversary Achievement Award was worn ABOVE the right pocket, as I recall (or was it left?), abck in 1960. If you earned it, wear it!

Taking someone from Montana or Michigan or Alaska and plopping them down into Central Virginia is a thermal shock. Our Humidity here is legendary, and those of us that have lived here all our lives are used to it. We've had it since May. It takes about a week of exposure to get acclimated to the heat, and during that time, activity should be slowly ramped up. Even the military ceases all unnecessary physical activity under the black flag conditions we have been having for two weeks, and they have trained for it. Unfortunately, the Jambo participants are so excited, they want to hit the ground running and quickly got dehydrated. The gallons of caffeinated sodas being sold at the trading posts probably aren't helping much. Most kids won't touch water if they have a choice. If you did an epidemiological survey of those heat casualties, I'll bet there is a geographical pattern...the boys from Florida, Louisiana and Texas probably don't think it's any big deal. It's a matter of acclimatization more than a matter of water.

"Boy Scouts are taught not to put their tents under trees or under power lines. I don't know what happened in that case," Shields said. I assume that will be in the next BS Handbook and G2SS..."No tents under trees"...

Our camp chaplain is a Catholic priest and OA Vigil member.

The SCOUTS have spent $20 million on base improvements???? That can't be right.

Unfortunately, at our camp, any adult who is not camp staff is referred to as a "Scoutmaster". I don't know how to get around that, and it sounds like the other adult was too easily offended. You did the honorable thing by apologizing. Sounds like the homesick scout was handled just right. Next year he will probably have a blast. When he receives all those MB at the next COH, he will be beaming with pride and accomplishment and will have forgotten all about being homesick. "Other adults" need to be told prior to the outing that the SM (or ASM) is in charge, and all questions should be handled by him or the SPL. Scouts soon learn that with 3 or 4 adults they can always "shop" for the answer they want.

They can be worn if they are in a District, Council or Regional position representing the Venturing program. Example: summer camp staff are registered as a Venture Crew, therefore they may wear the green shirt with silver loops. Red white and blue loops are not official and should not be worn with the uniform.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

A.P. Hill is not out of the question. We just can't spend taxpayers' dollars to support a private club.

I am located about 2 1/2 hours away from AP Hill...tomorrow (Weds, Jul 27) is supposed to be the hottest so far (100+), then the heat should break. Forecast for the weekend is mid-upper 80's with lower humidity, which is more "normal". Tell your sons to drink plenty of WATER...even if they are not "thirsty". They should not go anywhere without a bottle of water in their hand. Avoid caffeine and sugared drinks and stay in the shade whenever possible. The "flag" system has been alluded to...this is a military system based on the WBGT index, which is a combination of wet bulb, dry bulb and globe temperatures. We have been under "black flag" conditions every afternoon for the past week, which means to curtail all physical training and unnecessary activities. As I write this, it is 99 degrees outside, with a heat index of 116. I just got back from summer camp and it was brutal. About the time we got acclimated to the heat, it was time to come home and I've been freezing in the A/C ever since.

BOWLING GREEN, Va. (AP) -- Three sons of Boy Scout leaders killed in an electrical accident at the National Scout Jamboree have returned home to Alaska, officials said Tuesday. "Our hearts go out to the families of these dedicated Scout leaders who gave so much to their sons, their troops and their communities," Boy Scout spokesman Gregg Shields told reporters, his voice choked with emotion. The accident happened Monday when the scout leaders were setting up a dining tent; four were killed. Officials said the gathering, which attracts tens of thousands of Scouts, would go on as planned. Shields said the accident was still under investigation and he could not provide additional details. Asked if a power line touched a tent pole, he said: "That's what we're investigating." Advertisement The victims were identified as Michael J. Shibe, 49, Mike Lacroix, 42, and Ronald H. Bitzer, 58, all of Anchorage, Alaska; and Scott Edward Powell, 57, of Perrysville, Ohio. Shibe had two sons at the Jamboree and Lacroix had one. A memorial service was planned at Wednesday's opening ceremony. Three other adults were injured. One was listed Tuesday in critical condition at VCU Medical Center in Richmond, one was in stable condition and another was discharged. Alaska Gov. Frank Murkowski issued a statement offering his condolences to the victims' family members and troop members. AP VIDEO Four Troop Leaders Die at Boy Scout Jamboree Audio Felberbaum reports some Scouts were near where the accident happened. "These individuals were killed while serving Alaska's young people - and I admire and thank them for that service," he said. Increased safety measures were put in place because of the accident and temperatures expected to top 100 degrees, Shields said. The jamboree is being held on 3,000 acres of the Army's 76,000-acre Fort A.P. Hill about an hour south of Washington. Army officials are assisting with the investigation. The youths with the Alaska troops - 80 Scouts ages 13 to 15 - were moved to an Army barracks where a chaplain and grief counselors were available. The jamboree runs through Aug. 3, with President Bush scheduled to speak Wednesday evening. The event, held every four years, attracts more than 40,000 Boy Scouts, leaders and volunteers from around the world. Bitzer was a retired administrative judge and assistant scoutmaster of Troop 129 of Anchorage, according to troop scoutmaster Ken Schoolcraft. "Scouting was what he loved. He spent many, many, many hours working with Scouting," Schoolcraft said. "It was a way for him to help others." The deaths came a day after a Boy Scout volunteer from North Carolina died at a hospital of an apparent heart attack. The Boy Scouts of America have held the event every four years since 1937. The next gathering is set for 2010, five years from now, to coincide with the group's 100th anniversary. But it may not be held at Fort A.P. Hill, which has hosted the Jamboree since 1981. A federal judge recently ruled that the Pentagon can no longer financially support the event. If the ruling stands, the Boy Scouts would have to find another location for their next gathering. A lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois contends that the Defense Department's sponsorship violates the First Amendment because the Scouts require members to swear an oath of duty to God. In exchange for getting use of the Army training base, the Scouts have spent about $20 million on base improvements that include road paving and plumbing upgrades. The Army says it uses the Jamboree as an opportunity to train personnel in crowd control, communications and other logistical skills. --- Associated Press writer Jeannette J. Lee in Anchorage, Alaska, contributed to this report.

From another discussion board: "Our State Safety Manager contacted Delaware's Fire Marshall and there is one step more to this initiative. They suggest that you place a decimal point in front of the letters so that this entry is the first to show in the phone number list."

I wash mine in one of those mesh bags like ladies use to wash nylons in. Keeps it from getting tangled up in the washer.