Scoutfish

WOW! 4 stations? WE only had 3, and most of the time, CBS was kinda fuzzy. Yeah, remember hearing about Jessie Helms broadcast, but didn't watch it much myself. Our Pegasus was black, but the lettering was red or green depending on where you were and how long the station was in buisness. And they were just starting to accept that newfangled ( around here) MASTERCHARGE credit card thingy.

This actualy has nothing to do with scouting...so I really don't know what forum to put it in. Not religious, not political.....not scouting... I am a senior field supervisor/installer/trainer/quality control technition for Crawford Door Systems in Wilmington, NC Yesterday, while getting my work orders for the day situated, I see a inter-company memo on my bosses desk that has a blazing orage headline: CDS NEWS FLASH! So I look at my boss, pick it up and act like I am straightening out a stack of papers and start saying: "Beep beep beep beep beep beep beep..." Yeah, reading is not the same as hearing, but... So my boss looks at me, looks at the other installers in the room and says to me: "You and I are probably the only people who understood that!" And in case the reading of the beeps didn't let you know...I was mocking the way the major network news used to come on in the late seventies and early eighties. A transparent globe logo would spin around while the "beep beep beep" sound played in the background. Soon the beepinmg would turn into those networked electric typwriters typing (nah, I do not know what they are called). So the discussion turned into recounting old stuff about the news. Remember when gas companies sponored the news? Remember Gene Shallot (spelling? ) with his thick mustache and big afro? Remember when the news anchors had black or bown hair? Remember that new guy named Peter Jennings? Somehow this turned into a gas station logo and sign conversation. Used to be Mobile gas stations all over the place with the black Pegasus on the signs. BP stations just had the BP on them. Shell really hasn't changed much. But I do remember when my dad would pull up to a gas station and they had half the pumps were self serve, half were full service. Your options were Unleaded, Regular and Premium. Regular and premium meant "with lead". Oil cans were cardboard with metal top and bottom, and you had a combo canopener funnel spout that you stuck into the can. And every gas station worth anything had a row of various size fan belts hanging on at least wall. Dad used to get the free maps too. We always had a big collection of maps in the glove box. Yeah, most of the guys at work have no idea about this stuff. Of course, most of them never used or seen a phone with a rotary dial either. Sigh......

Basement: Yeah, I remember discussing somethinmg along the lines of mess kits, but couldn't find the thread. And I will probably end up buying an aluminum kit because that did seem to be the common denominator in all the different kits...and my son will want that because they had that. Sure, he'll ditch it soon enough, so I'll find s cheap one. I have a couple of those blue ceramic covered metal plates that have a half divided section and two 1/4 sections. They are camp plates, but they are bigger than my plates I use at home!

Twocub..... How about a promotional video?

While at the Campore this past weekend with the troop, I ( as well as my Webelos son) noticed that all the boys used mess kits. To be honest, I never really put alot of thought into them. Being a pack, I never really had to. Sure, the cost might be higher than disposable, but it's a one time cost...at least for a bunch of years. So I am seein g several bennefits to this. Ecologically friendly, no litte/no waste. Less use on natural resources, less waste and less pollution during manuafacturing. Not to mention that this is my son's econd year of being a Webelos...he'll need one soon. I want one now. If I was to make a point of using it at all our activities and campouts, maybe the cubs and their parents will notice too. Now here's the thing....almost every scout had a different type of mess kit. Some were combo units that snapped or locked together. OThers were just dropped in a mesh bag. Others looked like the scout raided mom's kitchen cabnets and grabbed stuff that wasn't being used. So: Is there a type or brand kit that you suggest based on your experience with it?

Well, we have a larger size pack. Right now, we are around 75 boys. Personally, I don't care if we sold popcorn ever again. We as a pack don't sell very much. 3 or 4 boys will sell just a hair over $200.00, then it drops down to a handfull of boys who sell $30.00 to $60.00 of popcorn. In my own neighborhood, most houses are vacation homes, so they are empty in the fall/winter months. In our overall area of the district, there are 4 packs and 4 troops, 3 venture crews, 2 ships, and 2 girlscouts troops. I don't even have to tell you about girl scout cookies. So we are oversaturated with popcorn salesmen, and under saturated with customers. My pack used to do wrteaths and candles to help make up for the lag in popcorn sales. USED TO I did not mean to imply or for it to sound like we still sell wreatrhs and candles. We do not. Totally not worth the time or headache. So as is, we sell popcorn ( more because we feel we owe it to council) and do a BBQ chicken dinner fundraiser. The chicken money is for the pack, We use that to fund camperships and hardship scouts, we also adopt 3 families every Christmas and we pay for neckers and scoutbooks for all scouts who attend graduation and crossover. THis money also pays for leaders recharter fees, beltloops, pins, patches, beads, bead holders, awards, knots, AOL awards.etc.... We also use this money to carry the pack from signup nights to recharter because all money collected at sign up goes to Council and insurance. So that leaves Camp Cards. We never sold them before. Matter of fact, the leaders of my pack didn't know what they were until I showed them one and passed out flyers to them. Thing is, since we don't sell much popcorn, and chicken money is for te pack...we need something for the boys. Again, popcorn profits ( for scouts) would be a well below minimum wage thing in comparison. Our dues are only $40.00 a year. $18.00 ( $3.00 for insurance)to council, $22.00 to the pack for materials and crafts and awards, patches, pins, etc..... $22.00 does not last long at all! So, the point of camp cards is just that: let the boys pay for camping oppertunities instead of mom and dad breaking out the wallet or checkbook. We have at least two pack camp outs as well as one pack group council campout, two council campouts, 2 Webelos den campous, and then you have go see its and den activities and filed trips. Camp cards are just what the doctor ordered. Need a new uniform shirts? Belt? Hat? Other camping or scout stuff from the scout shop? Camp Cards! Now, I mention the donations we get during chicken dinner ticket sales. Not every scout can sell popcorn or hvae any luck with customers when he does sell. But that same scout might work a 4 hour shift selling tickets . WE set shifts for 1 hour, but some scouts and parents stick around and work longer So the scouts who sells $0.00 in popcorn , can now get a share of money for his scout account. Hope this makes more sense. Oh yeah, I know the breakdown between the council's part and unit's part. I was just wondering how your units broke down their share between the unit and scout. I think we used to give 25% to the scout and trhe rest went to the unit, but like some of you might have noticed, our chicken gives us enough that I and my CC think we can handle splitting unit shares of camp card and popcorn between scout and den. Den share is used for den materials, projects, materials, and whatnot. The DL's can have a pizza party or ice cream party at the end of the year with their share for all I care. They can use it for a den activity or den go see it trip. My thought is this: Make the program more fun, more exciting, and better for the scouts and they will stick with it and spend mopre time learning and having fun.

Okay, our packs bread and butter comes from our annual BBQ chicken dinner fundraiser. We give each scout twenty $6.00 dollar tickets to sell ( the scout supports the pack and helps the pack grow). They can get more if they sell out.We also set up a table in front of a couple local grocery stores. The scouts sell and work it just as much as the adults do. And we do direct drive up sales during the event. We cook and sell at two locations. Last year, we cleared just over $5,000.00 in about 5 hours. But as it is, for every $200.00 we bring in for ticket sales, we also probably average about $100.00 in donations. My self ( CM ) and our new CC are thinking of ways to help the scouts. WEll, in popcorn, the scouts get a percentage of what they sell. Maybe the get the units entire amount or a percentage of the units amount. Well, the CC and I figured that donations were free money, and not the same as ticket sales, so we thought about putting aside all donated money and splitting it as 70% for the scout, and 30% for the den that the scout is in. We are also going to sell camp cards this year and thought about breaking it down the same way: 70/30. And this money is put into a scout account to be used for recharter, camping, uniforms, scout related gear, or anything from the scout shop. There are not any trips to Wal-mart. Just saying as I know some have mentioned that before. Again, the packs money comes from chicken dinner sales. Okay, I jaw-jacked enough...so my question is this: What is the percentage breakdown that your pack uses? (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

So am I the only one seeing ads for " Top quality alien repelling tin foil hats" ? I've seen ads for swimwear, camping equipment, t shirts, cooking supplies, shoes, singles sites firepit/ firestarters, and canoeing expeditions. I have no idea why te singles site popped up if it is indeed based on my previous searches. Everything else I can say has been typed in in one shape, form or another or been a related tag in a search engine

So are you squatting over a pit or do you have some sort of contraption like a toilet seat on 4 legs over a hole? I ahve held onto low hanging tree branches, sat way bag on a fallen log, and put my back against a tree while sitting in a squatting position. But I can't physically squat over a hole and make it work. Muscle team effort just isn't there. It's like my squatting/ ballance muscles override and shut down my evacuation muscles. Yeah, I am not denying that I am odd. No point in that, but I can't just squat, Have no idea why. I have a bottomless 5 gallon bucket with a toilet seat fastened to it from back in the day when we'd spend a day in the woods target shooting. Maybe using that and having s stick wit a role of TP would ease the fear or mental issues?

Basement, I can understand having to fill out additional applications for different units. AS CM of pack 235, I am still a nobody to the CO or COR of pack 777. I can totally understand the COR of pack 777 wanting me to fill out a new application - that the COR uses references on to do his own background check. I might pass BSA's bachground check, but not meet the standards or requirements of Pack 777. I could pass a background check for BSA and still be an overbearing egotistical paramilitray type jerk that the CO doesn't want. Same for trops, crews, etc.... I totally understand that. But if they make you fill our multiple applications for different positions within the same unit..that does seem excessive to me.

Well, I guess it is painfully obvious that I did not understand the role of a UC. I'll be honest: I don't even know if we have one for our pack. Why? WE have always had a great relationship withour sister troop and with another troop down the road, I am friends witrh the leadership of several packs as well as troops. I guess we are the ones who go to RT regularly and we are also the same people who work camps, camporees, and other district events on a regular basis. I am on dirict comittee and also camp promotor for my district. We have cub scouts from other units join our sister troop. Some of our boys join other co's troops. I encourage my 2nd year Webelos to shop around. I suppose I should try to ster them to my CO's troop, but that's notw aht I dio. I tell the boys to find a troop that is the best fit. I say the same to parents when they sign up for cub scouts: Find the paqck that is the best fit. So again, I have no clue whatsoever who our UC is, but I am guessing that as of so far...it hasn't mattered. Point being, I talk directly to our sister trop's SM and a couple of the ASM's as well as their committee and secretary. My two Webelos leaders also talk directly to the tgrop as well. And lkets' be honest, why have a middle guy when direct contact is quicker and gets more stuff done in less time. Is this the correct way? I don't know, but it works for us. My point being -Thomas54 - is that you can talk directly to the CM and/or Webelos leaders/ and or comittee. You do not need to go through or rely on a UC . Agaqin, that may not be proper or correct...but it works for both us, the troop and a few other packs and troops.

I had a small eye opener this past weekend. But first. let me say this: I am proud of my uniform, and I wear it whenever the opportunity presents itself - without going overboasd and being a scouting suckup....if that makes sense. Okay, back to my post: My son will wear his without arguement if you ask him, but I usually have to remind him to put it on before den or pack meetings for him to do it. THis past weekend, we attended a Camporee as guests of our sister troop ( although we were planning on going as a den anyways) So I told my son to bring his "A's" with him. "Really?" was the reply I got. I said yes, we needed it for colors and he should be proud to wear it. So we get to camp early, set up our tent and the dining fly just before the skys opened up and the bottom falls out. My son gets soaked in his t shirt and lightweight jacket. So after the cold front and rain pass by, he puts on a dry t shirt and flannel shirt. Pretty soon, boys from the sister troop start showing up. First 5 who rode together, then 6 who convoyed there. then a few more stragglers show up. They all start unloading the trailer and setting up their tents and patrol kitchens Every single one of them are in uniform. I look for my son so I can point this out, but I do not see him anywhere. A few minutes later, he asks me if I could help him adjust his necker. He saw all the boys in uniform, and decided that he needed to be in uniform too. So maybe he wanted to fit in, maybe he wanted to belong to the group. Maybe he saw that being proud of ( or at lest wearing) your uniform didn't make you a dork. None the less, he put it on without being told or prodded. And make no mistake, he acted proud to wear it. Incidentally, even though he was a second year Webelos, the boys treated him like a BOY scout and not a cub scout, a lesser scout or an outsider. They assigned him some duties ( fill coolers with water and make Gator Aid and help set up camp stoves) treated him like he had been in the troop for years and laughed and joked WITH him and not at him. So he was already helping out when he decided to put on his uniform. So, I will also echo what Eagledad said: "I found that for boys pride comes from the program and is expressed through the uniform, not the other way around." My son was not treated as an equal because he wore his uniform. He did not become a better scout because of his uniform, and wearing it didn't necessarily make him proud...but once he was proud of being a scout, he put his uniform on. Once he felt like he belonged, he put it on. It didn't really make him a better scout, but he felt better and looked better. So I guess I really have to give credit to a group of boy scouts who looked at my son for what he could be instead of what he was( a cub scout ), and treated him as they treated each other. Yeah, I learned something new or at least from a different perspective last weekend.

Way to go Basement! I also asked two people to be ACM's when my last one crossed out. When I mentioned it here...you coulda heard a pin drop. But it's working out great. I used to think I had a full committee , but now, it's "fuller". Working geat and takesa ton of stress off the people who have been doing all along, so they can do even better in the areas they are supposed to be doing in. Our year is gonna be great! I have no doubt yours is too!

WOW! I just call the council registrar and tell her that John Doe is switching from adult leader position "X" to adult leader position "Y"..andf the registrar changes it on thespot. Now, when I became CM, I had to fill out another application and turn it in, but because I was going to be the CM.

Maybe a wood timber veneer wall with lashings supporting it all? Kinda like western fort thing? Another wall could be olive green with some sort of mossy oak paint scheme and maybe scout posters. Gotta have a a couple chairs and a table that are wood/ timber/logs all lashed together and your canbinets could be made from recycled wood like on that Old Yankee woodsmith show...or whatever it was called. Your work bench could be recycled woos with maybe the scout symbol inlaid in the wood with different wood types making up the different colors, then shelack the whole thing or polturethane it. For display purposes, hand some old homemade pioneer style type woodworking tools on a pegboard on one wall.

We have a somewhat similar situation. We have had about 12 scouts transfer to our pack from another pack over the course of 3 years. They all came from the same pack. I goty an e-mail from our DE back in July stating to the effect that: Wondering if we had any parents who might want to be leaders. If so, would they like the oppertunity to be leaders at Pack "X". Pack "X" only had 3 Bears and 6 Wolves and 2 leaders at the time. DE didn't know that 12 ( roughly) members of our pack had transfered from pack "X". The Tigers did nothing but sit around or play. No scout program, no leaders. Bears were just read to out of the book.Wolves didn't like leader. Didn't get and Webelos, so not sure if they had any or not. DE asked me to mention to parents and leadership at pack meeting. I mentioned it and asked if anybody was interested. I might have gotten more answers if I asked who would like to give me their kidneys instead. So I tell DE that nobody was interested. TOld him there were some reasons that people left. That pack has a new CM this year. At signup nights, I know he recruited 2 new scouts. I also know that he pitched more about how great mom and dad would look in green and tan. I mean, what can you say? Either they have a bad program, a dull program, or they are flat out doing something wrong. We even had two opf the transfer parents step up and volunteer as committee and as ADL, so I know it wasn't about parents not wanting to help.

So he's aUC for the pack, but not the troop of the same CO? So then he dosn't actually owe anything to the troop right? Now, It does sound like he's keeping you out of the loop, but that's where the real question is: Why is he steering boys to the other troop? Maybe he wants his son to be in an Eagle mill. Or maybe he wants his son in a troop that pushed just a bit harder than yours towards Eagle. Maybe they have a slightly stricter Uniform expectatiuons, or maybe they do more/less service. Can't really say since we do not know your entire conversation, the other troops conversation or the dad's mindset. So, it may not even be that he thinks you are doing someting wromg...just that he wants something different than what your troop offers. No biggie there. The biggest conversation that tis guy needs is that he needs to realize that not every scout or scouit parent might share his visions. Now as for him doing something wrong...well, that's a tough one. Is he doing something wrong, or maybe he thinks he is actually doing his job by steering boys away from a "lame duck" troop to one that is better. Mind you, I am not saying you have a lame duck troop. I do not think your troop is bad. I am not saying the dad is right or wrong.....I am just saying that HE MAY THINK he is doing right by the scouts.

There were 16 different events , but Webelos could only participate in about 11 of them. The Ironman, shotgun , rifle, action archery, crosscut saw were for boy scouts only. Webelos had seperate scoring and seperate awards for the camporee. Packs could attend on their own, or be a guest of a troop. WE were going to attend as a pack on our own, but our sister troop invited us to attend as either a patrol, sub patrol, or shadow them. Turns out that shadowing them , but staying our own unit worked out better since scores would be screwed up due to the activitied that the Webelos could not do. Plus, when the troop did the Ironman, rifles,shotguns and action archery , the Webelos were on the other side of the camp doing the relay competitions, log hitch/pull, and hatchet throwing. It worked out great the way we did it: Camped right next to our sister troop and even had Webelos on duty rosters for food prep, cooking anmd cleanup. My son as well as the other Webelos were not traeted like visiting Cub Scouts, but where treated just klike any other boy scout that had always been a part of the troop.....except in situations where they couldn't be like starting a fire, carrying a hatchet, etc....stuff like that.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

But, your suggestion for leaving the campfire ceremony was what they did. The campfire ceremony was lead by the OA and afterward they asked everybody to leave by rows under the scout sign ( quietly) Thing was, after the ceremony was over and we were at the leaders meeting where the SM of that troop brought it up...you could almost hear a pin drop after the SM put the blame on the camporree staff. The director was ...shocked to say the least and was speachless. Pretty much the other leaders comments sid it all: You need to control your boys!

We were at "Eagle Field" where the flagpole was set up ( Big pioneer pole for event). WE did colors, then had basic announcements. Then we were dismissed and hiked about 300 yards to the lakefront ampitheatre ( kinda) campfire area. The troop in questions just left the colors ceremony and got all seperated and pretty much did a "every man for themself" thing at the ampitheatre area. Once the SM got to the campfire area, he called his troop, who - instead of walking down the aisles and rows of seating and benches - just started hopping from bench to bench and jumping over benches. They knocked over another adult who may or may not have been a leader, possibly just a parent. Naturally, the person knocked over wasn't happy about it. Words were said. Somehow, the SM thinks it's all the camp, camporee , and camporee staff's fault. He did not see where any part of it was a troop problem, and he did not take any blame or responcibility for what happened.....even though nobody else from any of the attending troops or packs had this kind of problem. Seriously, his boys were out of control and did not stick together as a troop or patrol (if that was trhe case).

Took some of my Webelos to our fall camporee trhis past weekend and we had a blast. This year, the districts allowed WEbelos to attend with the council's blessing. So as camporees and other camping events go, there was a leaders meeting held after the campfire ceremony to air out any issues, problems and complaints. And while most wree your normal run of trhe mills issues that almost every camp expoeriences...there was one that .....well, I cannot believe the guy brout it up. When it was his turn to air his grievances, this particular SM stands up and says that there needed to be a more formal dismissale from evening colors. As it turns out, Colors was held after announcements and before the walk to the waterfront campfire ceremony. Anyways, the Sm says that ther should have been a better dismissal system in place because his boys from his troop ended up just walking away, getting seperated and all mixed up in the (sorta) ampitheatre seating at the campfire ceremony. He then tells how his boys were walkning and jumping from bleacher ( well, bencesh really) to bleacher and bumped into a few people and knocked one adult over. He then said people got mad and there was even an arguement...so what was the Camporee staff gonna do to prevent this next time. I think all 30 something other leaders in the room couldn't believe what this SM was asking . I mean, REally? How can you not see that this was an internall issue of the troop and nothing to do with the camp, the camporee or the bcamporee staff. This year, they allowed Webelos to attend, and even though they are younger and not experienced in the ways of troop or patrol function, I can say that - from what I saw, evey Webelos scout acted more mature than the way this SM said his troop acted. So this got me thinking: Is this a common thing among Boy Scouts? Now, I do not want to imply that Cubs are different, but at least in Cubs, we have a more direct adult contact andf control. I guess it comes down to this: While we do expect Cubs to act their best, we don't blame the camp or camp staff when they don't. We just break out our "Or Else" stares and maybe snap a finger at them.

Just got back from District Fall Camporee. Our district and the neighboring distyrict take turns sponsoring Camporees. Ocean District sponosred our "Pioneering Days " fall camporee. Of course, it's a boy scout event, but this time, they allowed WEbelos to attend and participate in most of the events. WEbelos couldn'ty shoot rifles or action archery, but could shoot bb guns, slingshots and regular archery. They weren't supposed to be able to use the COPE climbing tower, but my son as well as a few other bigger, taller Webelos went through without being flagged. Now, the Webelos didn't try to do anything they weren't supposed to, and they didn't lie...it's just that they looked like boy scouts. Matter of fact, they looked like bigger boyscouts as many boy scouts are smaller than them ( my son is tall!) It was after they did it that the other Webelos were told they could not do it. Ooops! So, we went and shadowed our sister troop. We camped beside our sister troop and we helps with all duties, the gateway and camp set up. Now, I have to tell you...this is an awesome thing! You want to get your Webelos to crossover and join boy scouts, but you also want them to not go into shock when things go from adult led with mom and dad doing everything to boy led with boys being responcible for setting up camp, coking, cleaning and taking care of themselves. THis is your ticket right here. WEbelos watching and participating with the Troop, but withouit the distrctions of all the lower ranking cub scouts . I don't know if your district or council does this or allows this...but I cam tell you this ( from a CM standpoint) _ It was a huge success! The WEbelos know what they are getting into. They know that being in control also means being in control of the cooking, clean up, set up and packing up. They see they are responcible for getting up , dressed , and to colors on time because mom or dad isn't going to help them.. I mean, you can tell a Webelos what Boy Scouts is like all day long until you are blue in the face...or you can take them to be part of it.

As a CM, I have no experience with awarding Boy Scout rank, but I have an idea. It might not work, but here goes: In our pack, we provide the rank patches. Not sure if the troop does or the scout has to pony up for it. Anyways, we know that the scout has met the requirements for "X" rank in the last meeting or will by the time we hold the next den or pack meeting. If our DL is on top of his game, he will go ahead and send in te paperwork and have the patch by the time we let the scout know he has earned rank...which might put it at being1 week after he has earned it. Yeah, I know it's different with Cub than with boy scouts, but 1 week isn't that big a deal. Granted, we hand out this type of stuff on a monthly basis at pack meetinmgs, but can pass it out at den meetings. Just a thought. Like I said, I have no idea if it will work in Boy Scouting or not...but that's never made me keep my mouth shut before!

" On the other hand he's a bit reluctant to leave his buddies behind, if only for a year until they catch up. What are thoughts on having him be a den chief for the 5th grade den next year? " Please clarify. Is he thinking of joining a troop and then being a Den Chief, or is he thinking of staying in the pack after AOL and acting as a den chief? In the former, the SM and CC have alot of input as to who acts as den chief. In the latter, can't be done. He has to be a Boy SCout to be a Den Chief. As a cub scout he coud be a denner. Nowq, all of that aside...if the boy isn't ready to cross over, then let him stay in the pack until they all join Boy Scouts. AoL ALLOWS you to cross over early, but it isn't a requirement. They boy can choose to stay in the pack and wait til his buddies cross over or until next year when he graduates from the pack. I don't know the boy, Have no clue what he's like..but this could be a sign that - even though he will reach AoL, he still might not be ready emotionally. W had a bunch of boys cross over last year and they couldn't wait to be Boy Scouts. One is no longer active because he wasn't ready for it. Know what I mean? Night and day! HIs dad says he might wait til next year and give it another try. Luckily for the boy, his dad is not going to make him go...that's the quickest way to make the boy loathe scouting.

WEll, the tutu picture is just one of those horrible things in life. Worse than dropping your ice cream cone, but way better than divorce! Yeah Seattle, I wasn't argueing the merits of either side's value, just looking at the math part of it only.