Scoutfish

Since it was brought up.... This is one of the most misunderstood things ever! Nobody ever intended for religion to be banned from government. Schools are not even metioned, but I suppose since schools get government funding ..blah, blah, blah! The reson it was even brought to be was because , back in day, most kings used religion as the backbone to their power. They had Cardinals or Bishops who could say that if you didn't do this or that - you were in affect- breaking God's law. Now,some countries like England had offical state churches. Meaning that 1 church was the offical church. Citizens HAD to pay taxes to THAT church. Matter of fact, The Anglican Church(church of England) was the only recognized church. Any other church was not recognized as anything more that a group of hoodilums hanging out together. If you did not go to the state established/recognized church...you still had to pay taxes to it. And if you somehow didn't pay taxes to that church, you were in violation of the law. Now, the founding fathers were wise enough to realize that all people ought to be able to worship in the way they saw fit , and under the religion they please, or not if that's how they felt. So as they wrote it...

Let me put it one last way: In my community, we have had Christmas parades, 4th of July pardes, Veterans Day parades, and fire dept day parades. Not at one time did we have a straight persons parade. We never had a minority parde, We never had an athiest parade, nor any other parade that singled out an one group of people based on their personal beliefs. If gays want to have that parde..fine by me, but they woukld be the first to bring their personal-ness to a non personal level! Maybe that's the biggesr problem!

I am lucky, but not because of why you think. I am lucky because I know that life isn't all about me. Other peoples lives are not about me. I do not feel like, want, or need other peole to stand up and HAVE to approve my life. When I talk about my son...I do not talk about My straight self, taking my straight son to a straight Cub Scout straight family pack campou with other straight families. I just take my son to the campout. I do not feel the need to make it straight, gay, athiest, Wican, Hindu or anything else other than what it uis: A campout. I had worked side by side with a pewrson who was gay for two years. I was told by my boss that the guy was gay. I didn't care,. The guy thought he was being secret from me and acted just like everybody else. Then afyet about a year and a half, when he found out I knew he was gay, he had to bring gay into every signle conversation. I pretty much told him it was getting old. Then he started acting indignant about it. I told his to stop with the crap. I knew he was gay from day one and did not have a problem until he turned the most ordinary things intop gay topics. I mean come on, are there really fried eggs and gay fried eggs? I asked him if he happened to notice tnat I didn't ever make a point of stressing heterosexualness in everything I talked about. You know,. most things are not even sexual in nature. Cooking potaoes, baking chicken, funny commercials , taxes, new fishing laws, cost of a gallon of gas, etc... nothing gay, straight or other wise about it. My point is this: I do not shove my sexuality down anybody's face. I do not demand that they not only recognize my sexuality, but must approve it too! I leave my sexuality out of 99.99 % of everything I do. I do not drive straight, I do not work straight, I do not swim straight or shower straight. I just drive, work, swim and shower. I do not shove my personal ideas, thougfhts or opinions in your face. You don't shove yours in mine. So why is it okay for gays to do it? Why not have a straight people parade? Why not an athiest parade? Why not a have a weiner dog lover's parde? I'll tell you why: Because we don't care if you like it or not, We don't demand that you recognize it. Let me put it thuis way: How many people were gay, that you had no idea about until they abnnouced it? Did they suddenly turn gay when they announced it? NOPE! Now, I'm not saying anybody should have to hide it, but you don't have to stand up in the middle of a crowd and then demand that they love it either! Just go about your buisness and keep it your buisness. Just like I do. And truth be told..how do you know I'm not gay? Just because I didn't tell everybody and make a big deal out of what should be personal?

I'm tired of hearing about it too! See now though: I am not predjudiced,racist, biggoted or biased against anybody, their religions or lifestyles. I really don't care about that as much as I care about how they personally treat me. I have friendships with many fine folks from many racial, sexual, and ethnic backgrounds. Their race,sexual persuasion, or ethnicitry is not an issue for me. I do get tired of hearing about why I must stand up and say that being gay is great! Are you gay? Good for you! I don't care one way or the other. If you are or are not gay will not affect my relationship with my family. Being gay isn't contageous. But isnsiting that I bend over backwards and be super supportive of "Gay".... is stupid! I am a heterosexual male. I get up in the morning, drive to work and install garage doors. I come home and eat super with my family,. I go to Cub Scouts where I am an ADL. I like to go fishing and like to just ride in my boat to get away sometimes. I like target shooting too. But I don't go to work heterosexully. I don't install garage doors heterosexually. I don't teach cubs stuff in a heterosexual way. I just install garage doors. Thats all. I just drive. I just teach cubs - cub stuff, I fish in ways that helps me catch more fish if I'm lucky. It's not about being gay or not being gay. It's not about being heterosexual or not being heterosexual. So... My point is... I could care less about wether anybody is gay or not. But just don't make every non sexual thing a gay thing! There isn't heterosexual, single, married or divorced Scouting. It's just Scouting.Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts. BSA. So why try to make "GAY SCOUTING" ? So yeah, I'm tired of hearing about gay this, or gay that. I don't make every coversation I have include or reference being straight,( "Tonight, we call to order the Straight pack 555 meeting") so why must I accept a bunch of conversations about being gay? Let the subject of cars, planes, camping, work, taxes, water , computers,food, or whatever it is about,. be just that...about that - and not being gay or not being gay. I like having heterosexual; sex with my wife. But I leave that at home. I do not bring it up in scouting, at work or at public displays, memorials or even in parades. My work life is for work. My sex life is for home. And when I'm scouting... I try to keep it pertinent to scouting, and not my personal sexual views or political views. I do not demand that non fishermen should start supporting fishing. I do not demand that non scouters should recognize scouting. I do not demand that non NASCAR fans start publicly recognizing racefans lifestyles. I do not demand that gays support my life style or constantly stand up and pat me on the back. So why should I be expected to stand up and give extra special recognition and support to one group, when I don't give it to any other or expect it myself? Be who you are. Live it, do it, immerse yourself in it. But don't make everything in the world all about it!

i have only witnessed 1 crossover. I was still just a parent only back then, so somehow i missed the memo saying that the pack meeting was instead going to be a crosover ceremony. Once I found out what it was, I tought it was only right I stay and watch them in their time in the spotlight. As each Cub Scout was ready to cross the bridge, the Cub Master read a "profile " , if you will of the scout and his accomplishments and wether ther was an Arrow of Light Award. The award wasn't given at this time, but already been recieved . The scouts would cross the bridge and be greeted by the SM or ASM of the troop they already decided to join. After the scout crossed over, the parensts would then cross over after the scout did. One cool point, there was a dance team there too. I thibnk it was an Order of the Arrow dance team, but will not swear on it. They dressed in ceremonial NA gear and gave a speach bef0ore the crossover part took place.

I don't know what to give as an answer as I can see where parents might think your kinda looking for recognition, but then again, I bet half the parents don't understand alot of things about BSA. The key thing here is this: YOU WERE ASKED! It means you didn't just egotistically come up with this idea on your own. Ask the ask if this is normal for Cub Leaders a who become ASM's. Ask if this has been done before.And ask a few Webelos parnets what they think, and your concerns. But most importantly, ask the WEbelos what they think> THis is about them, so give their thoughts the highest weight on the matter. In their eyes, it might be cool to see their leader cross over too. Kinda says that they are doing the same thing an adult leader is doing... so how cool is that! But on a 3rd point of view...all traditions started somewhere. What is to say that this might not be a tradition that is looked upon with fondness by scouts and leaders alike?

I spent 12 years as a volunteer fire fighter/ ems/ water rescue. I have to ask: Is it the fire dept sponsoring them directly, or a fire dept auxillary? Most auxillaries are chartered groups independant of the actual fire dept, but work towards supposrting the fire dept. Kinda - sorta - almost like Co and troops/packs ( but in reverse). The fire dept would be the pack/troop and the auxillary the CO. Granted, different states, counties and municipalities have different rules and such, but from my experience on 2 different departments.. Who had time to sponsor a pack/ troop? Our auxillary , on the other hand, were mostly retired age workers who used to be fire/ ems people in their previous carrers. They did alot of fund raising, community relations and such. They organized all kinds of fire victim benefits. Pretty much, they let us concentrate on training and being fire fighters. So, it wouldn't surprise me if BSA sponsorship is actually from FD auxillaries instead of the FD itself. (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

I read ( somewhere) about the four corners for in fractions, and instand loss for careless behavior. I told my son about that too, I really like that idea. As for urbah legend... I was waitingf for story about a teenage boy and girl in a car at an old abandoned scout camp. Usual stereotypical story stuff happens like it always does....blah blah blah, and when they get back to the city, they find a whittling knife stuck in the door handle or something like that! LMAO!

LOL! Good call Calico! 11 years ago, adult movie meant something else to me and my wife. Now days, "adult movie" means anything rated higher than PG! Being a parent IS an alternative lifestyle.

Is that for Webs, Bears, or Cubs in general? All I have is the Bear handbook and Wolf book from last year.

At our last pack family campout, one of the Webelos dens launched a rocket kit. I thought it was pretty cool, and so did most every sigle Cub scout who saw it. So a few weeks ago, while shopping for some WWII model kits for my son's birthday, I ran across rocket kits. Thought they were reasonalbly priced. So I told my wife I might get one or two this summer for my son and me to put together and launch. Then I even said I'd buy one or two for the Webelos den I'm supposed to lead next year. Then she nailed me to the spot: "What skill does that teach or show?" okay, she wasn't really taking me to task, she was just curious. WEll,.............I have no idea at all. It was cool! What else do you want? Okay, I'm not in the Webelos yet. I don't have a Webelos book either. But I'm guessing it has something to do with working on stuff...putting it together and maybe the rewards of doing something right instead of fast. But I realize, that If I told parents we were going to launch a rocket.. I wouldn't have an answer if they asked why. I don't think saying " It's cool! What else do you want?" would suffice! So, is there some higher educational purpose to rocket kits? Chemistry? Aeronautics? Developing tree climbing skills to get cones back? Oh yeah, don't worry, I'm slated to take BALOO, Leader specific ( for Webelos) and leader essntials in the next few weeks and months. I will have the proper training and books by the time I take on that leader position in Webelos. But as I am currently a ADL for Bears, I don't know!

The Webelos have fires during their den meetings in the spring and fall. We have a big(ger-ish) fire at our family pack campouts. I just wasn't sure about at the den level. I already misunderstood BB guns because of the way wording is. Personally, the idea of marshmellows makes me cringe. Or at least as an adult. Seen toomany burnt globs flung far and away from the group, only to show up on the bottom of somebody's shoe 3 days later. AFTER they walked through the CO's carpeted hallways and sanctuary! But fire makes things more...not sure of the right word....Intense? Deeper? More sureal? I don't know, but I do remember alot of moments as a teenager(18 or 19) doing things with groups of other teenagers that our parents frowned on. Usually a radio, beer and a bonfire ( yeah, I know, not a good combo). But of all the things that really stick with me detail wise...Is the fires. They always made us seem tighter as a group. More mellow and we listened to esach other more. I guess camraderi is the word I'm looking for!

Dang! Now, see what you did TwoCub? I was starting to get the idea that BSA wrote it just right and that it didn't need clarifying at all. I thought Mabel pretty much gave me a nice neat package to fall on when it came to advancement: The heart of the matter is what comes next: "Consequently, the Boy Scouts of America has adopted a "least common denominator" policy in which ensures all registered Scouts, regardless of their actual participation in troop and patrol activities can meet these requirement." Basically,I understood that as "We are looking out for the small guys too and that's why you CANNOT CHANG ANYTHING! Do as it reads and that it!" Sounded simple. I understood it at a deeper level too. But then...You had to go and say ...well point out that BSA said... this: "Conseqently, the Boy Scouts of America entrusts the men and women who devote hundreds of volunteer hours in service to these boys and who understand their personal and family situations to make reasonable and fair determinations as to what 'participate actively' means for the Scouts in the units they serve." So now it's right back to square one! "Reasonable and fair" are matter of opinion and perception right? I will bet my last dollar that the troops/dens that do require percentages to be met or those that add to the requirements HAVE NO DOUBT that they are being resonable and fair. Not saying I think they are being fair, but that - they have the opinion of themselves that they are being more than reasonable and more than fair. Mabel, I still like what you typed and plan on following that idea and sentiment, but it might be a good idea to tell BSA that what I just said is a given to those who do have higher requirements. Kinda like what I learned in EMT training: An insane person has no doubts about their own sanity what so ever! Like wise, those who add to advancement requirements have no doubts what so ever that they are still very fair.

In case you didn't know.... Jello: http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/question557.htm

The Blancmange: I think you bring up another point too: > So....... what else is there? No vegitation ( which actually, I agree with) and no wildlife either. Ummmm are there edible rocks? Can you fry up a fresh batch of dirt? Mmm- mmm! Delicious! OKay, I know they want you to survive on your granola bars and rations, but wouldn't a true survival course teach you to kill a squirrel with a pine needle dart or something like that? How much granola bars can you carry? What if you really, really need to survive longer than the amount of food you have with you? I'd think you want to teach them how to make a functioning and dependable snare... but in the hopes they won't ever need it. As far as the original post..I say it should be fine as long as you eat the "food" afterward. I'm not a hunter. I like to fish instead. I salt water fish. But one thing I do is this: If I catch a fish that I am not going to eat.. I release it. I say release and not "throw it back" because where I'm from, release means alive and healthy ( other than maybe a sore lip). I will not kill any fish that I do not plan to eat or give to others who physically cannot fish( elderly). I also tell my son that if he keeps a fish, he better plan on eating it too. So I think as long as you don't kill it, skin/ clean it, and cook it only to toss it in the trash...everything should be fine. As far as those freaked out parents... ask them if the know where bacon and eggs come from! Ask them where all that meat at the grocery store comes from. Then ask them about........... jello!

Thanks everybody! I haven't taken BALOO yet, butI am onschedual to take it soon. I was sidetracked with a Dr the last time it was offered. Scoutnut, I found stuff about campfires in the leader's book and G2SS (on line) but not specifically about having scouits build the stackbut not the fire. That makes sense? I'm thinking about maybe letting them stack te original wood ( 1 piece each) and then that would be it. Everything I sw in either book was overall safety or wether cubs could light (firebuilding) or not. I felt my possible situation might be in between the two.

Troop24....as long as it's not with my gas!

Okay, this may be a dumb question, but hey, it won't be my first one , right? LOL! Okay, looking in my Cub Scout Leader Book, and looking in the online version of G2SS, I cannot find anything specifically talking about Cubs (specifically Wolves) and campfire participation. Now, I did see that it's not recommended? Allowed? by this GUIDLINES chart: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/ageguides.pdf But now, I wasn't planning on handing out chunks of wood and handing out lighters either. I was just thinking that maybe ..during a nice cool ( not cold) night or maybe an early fall/ late spring den meeting, it could be held around a small campfire. Maybe in my yard, maybe at the fire pit at the CO where we meet. My thought was that each cub could stack a piece of wood into a pile, but after that, it would be totally and completely hands off. All lighting, extinguishing and control (poking & stirring) would be by me or another adult. The purpose of the den meeting would NOT BE ABOUT the fire, but the den meeting would just happen to be around or by the fire. Just as an asthetic effect to up the "cool factor" . So I know (by the Guidlines chart) that the cubs couldn't build, light and maintain the fire, but could they just stack the wood and watch a fire? Or maybe better yet, no hands on, just hold a den meeting around/near the fire? I'm only asking because the guidline as I understand it, does not even closely cover that scenario. Not saying I have serious plans, but I'm thinking about things that might be cool or fun at future meetings. Thanks - Scoutfish

Are there ever any particular posts, that have such great content, or maybe cover a good topic to the point you bring it back every now and then? Maybe newer members join up or newer people have come to scouting and didn't see these subjects covered. I just read this one( What is / is not tolerable behavoir in a leader ? ) and found it to be pretty cool on several fronts: The seriousness of it, varying opinions based on different people and even the stabs at humor here and there! So , are there ever certain subjects/topics that you feel should be revived every now and then?(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Okay, you will need a couple props for this one: A stop sign, a police looking uniform and a night stick. Have a scout pretend to be driving and com ro a stop sign. Instead of stopping, just visibly slow down , but keep moving. At that moment, the "police scout" jumps from behind a busch or tree and does a siren sound. The police scout get's out of his "car" or "motorcycle" and walks up the stopped scout. Police Scout: "Sir, do you know why I pulled you over?" Civilian scout: " No sir!" Police scout: " I pulled you over for not stopping at a stop sign!" Civilain scout: I slowed down, what's the difference?" Police Scout: "Let me show you!" At this point, the police scout pulls out his night stick and starts hitting the civilain on the head and asks: " Do you want me to stop hitting you, or should I just slow down?"

Ha ha ha ha! That's nothing! There should be a headline saying that 5 million scouts are urging congress to end their discrimanatory practices too: Use the same tax tables, same retrirement, same insurance and same pay scale as the rest of us. Pay and recieve the same social security and medicare as we do. Amd nost importantly, BSA should urge congress to adopt the 12 core values as their own too. Then, after that, I suppose BSA could take advice from congres!

Nah , it's cool Oak. Thing is: What I am thinking, what I write, ewhat you read and what you understand are 4 different things. I have to keep teiining myself that the problem may very well be on my end in the way I am saying what I say. Even something as simple as a misplaced or forgotten coma can totally change the way a sentance is read. Add in that my big ole fingers hit the wrong keys or too many at once....well, I'm surprised that more people don't misunderstand me sometimes. I take back what I said to anybody who thought I might have been implying them. I was kinda ill about it, but that being ill might just be my own fault.!

Not sure if it matters, but I didn't mean in an oficial duty or function. Not transporting other scouts, equipment or his buddies. Just meant drving himself. Not that I have to worry about it for at least 7 years. And by then, he may drive his hoverbike or something!

Okay, this isn't an issue yet as my Bear cub son just turned 9 a few weeks ago. And this is only my second year in scouting, first as an ADL , and I have no previous experience myself as a child involving scouting. So, when my son turns 16 , and can legally drive in NC - unless they change something about that ......would he be allowed top drive to scout functions? Now, I'm not saying that I am completely ditching him, not that I wouldn't want to go camping here or there...but sometimes a teenager just wants to do thing himself. Well, actually, with anybody besides mom and dad! LOL! Granted, that might be the time he needs the most supervision, but you can't be there for everything! So if it concerns meeting up with everybody to start a camping trip, or a scout outing or even going to some place like Jamboree..can he drive? I'm just curious. Don't know why I even thought of it, but I did.

Not a Boy scouter myself, just a CUB scouter, but from what I have read, he obly has to be 11 to join. From my perspective,.... get that boy in your troop before he decides that Cub/Boy scouts is not for him. His den is slowly dieing and dragging Cubs and potential scouts with it. He already comfortable,. know how your group works and fits in well. Forget the pins, as much as it would suck. consider it a moot point and just get that kid into a group that functions! If you get the pins straightened out...great! If not,.tell him and his mom to count his losses and move on!