Scoutfish

I agree with ScoutNut: There is a chance that dad doesn't like the idea of having to drag out and go to scout meetings or fork over the basic dues . A parent can sway a kid easily: "Hey son. you wannna go hang out and do cool stuff? Lets go to scout meeting and learn all kinds of cool skills and stuff!" OR "Do you really wannna go to thos dumb ol'e girly meeting and make construction paper teepees? Besides, you guys should be camping anf hiking or doing cool stuff like that!" I've seen it before, just not in those exact words.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

The very first mention of BB gun was this from Beavah: The very first mention of Archery was this from bear dad: Then bear dad asked: Turn out so far that all of those "some" were the very experienced Scoutleaders. The same ones who somehow decided trhat bead dad was going to hold an illegal bb gun shoot. Then I started saying I too understood why bear dad was getting mixed messages. Now you guys think I plan to have some sort of bb gun tea party demonstration in front of BSA or something? Wow, with the excepton of a few people.. kinda makes me scared to ask anything in here because I might ask about what everybody's favorite camping recipe is and somehow end up getting blasted for letting cubs play with hand torches crawl through fire embers!

Here's the probelm: Some of you know policy soo damn well,it's pouring out your ears. And this pouring out obstructs you hearing! LOL! Look, pl;ease read slowly and carefully: I AM NOT TRYING TO GET MY DEN TO USE A BB GUN! I have NO PLANS to use bb guns on the den level. I AM NOT ARGUING with BSA abouit policy. Is that much clear so far? WHat I have said is....... Due to the wording of the do different rules...... I UNDERSTAND why SOMEBODY ELSE misunderstood them. You get me? I am not rtying to have a BB gun shoot. I'm not trying to have an archery shoot. I'm not trying to shoot anything! All I did was try to put myself in somebody elses shoes before I made a judgement about them or their situation. . Any of you ever try that? Bear dad didn't quite understand the issue about den camping . Some how archery came up. Then everybody started spoutingt about how bear dad should real rule # such and such out of book title whatever. But that was pretty much pointless because not a single one of you ( well most of you) didn't bother to take in the fact that bear dad DID READ THE RULES! But as I pointed out... the rules can be misleading. I suppose if you have been scouting for a bunch of years..you can name off rules,policies, sub rules and whatnot in your sleep. But if you are not a seasoned scout/cub leader...then alot of these rules, policies and such sound like they go in circle and some just don't make sense,...YET! The funny thing is...somebody comes to you for advice....you start spouting policy - without actually finding out what the question really was about. Such in case, the question was about BSA policy on den camping. The question was froma guy who already read the rule and didn't understand BSA's doublespeak! So...without meaning any personal offense to anybody in particular or general.....I'm gonna assume the next person who qoutes to me BSA policy on shooting sports or dens is just too stupid to be giving anybody advice!

Lisa, your not hearing me. I have no doubts whatsoever about BB guns and archery. I am saying... I completely understand why beardad came up with the interpretation that he did - because BSA has one policy saying that they can not do this. But in a different area, they have another poicy that says things can be adjusted based on region or culture. And they specifically mentioned surfing. So on the den level, I can't take my cubs swimming in a flat calm pool that has a specific depth, has only limited area and where a cub cannot be caught in a current and dragged away from shore, but it's okay to drive to the beach, let them get out their surfboards and paddle away from shore? Add in sharks,waves, undertoe, jelly fish, stingrays and skates,and I understand completely why it's safer at the beach! AGAIN: I'm not taking my cubs BB gun shooting. I'm not egging on beardad to. I'm not encouraging him to either. But I understand his line of thought and reasoning that came up with the idea that BB guns would be okay. I never said anybody should willingly violate BSA either, You guys thought that one up. But had beardad had the bb gun shoot on the den level - because he thought it was okay, and didn't know better - then I cannot think that BSA could do much other than say: "Well, this is what it really means, don't do it again!" Maybe if they were real jerks, they might even make beardad hold out his hand for a harsh slapping. But nowhere did I ever say I would purposly and willing violate that rule even though I knew better. And I never ever said I would sue over a belt loop. That was your thinking. All I did was put myself in beardad's shoes and try to understand why he thought what he thought. And the best I could come up with is that one rule says : "You can't do it!" Then another rules says "Sometimes , you are allowed to do things you are not allowed to do, because everybody who lives where you live, does it already." Now why is it so hard to understand why somebody wouldn't understand that? And no! I am not taking my den surfing next week either!

Lisa, No. I would not legally pursue a belt loop. I'm saying if a scout doesn't hardly care about doing something right, doesn't necessarily do what he is supposed to and cries about not getting an advancement - and he can overturn( meaning NATIONal does) it without National even asking the troop why they denied advancement.... Then I'm saying that I bet I could take a den of cubs WHO ARE EXPEIENCED hunters and have taken hunter safety classes - who used real rifles that really kill people - and if council gave me a bunch of stink about shootingh a BB gun, I could show them that the scouts are overly qualified to shoot those bb guns. And based on regional and cultral policy allowed by the boysouts...council wouldn't dole out punishment or santions. Would they be happy? Oh, I doubt it. And the very first thing I said was I WOULDN'T DO IT! I'm talking principal and hypotheticaly. I am also saying that based on two different policies concerning kids and apropriate activities...I can stand behind the reasoning and logic that led beardad to think having a BB gun event on the den level would be okay. If anything BSA and/or a council or district should look at this and say: "Wait a minute, we better come up with something that is more clear and makes more sense!"

Leagal may not be the right word here. Meaning law enforcment of your pack/troop, or the legal basis (within your pack/troop) for enforcing you rules and policies. You don't use byklaw to dictate what advancement requirements are or what the axctual advancement activitie is. Meabuing by laws have nothing to do with deciding active or non active or wether a scout would have to wear full uniform at an EBOR. Not siding either way on that okay. But bylaws are for deciding how long a term of adult leadership, comittee or who can sign a check - for example..Does your pack/troop allow only the treasurer to sign a check, or does the SM/CM, the treasurer and one adult leader have to sign it too? Does it have to be the treasurer one Adult leader and one committee member that has to sign? That is what by laws are for because if for some reason the treasurer decides to buy someting frivilous that maybe the leadership didn't agree on...you have channels to stop that pewrson from doing it or at the least, a way to remove that person if they did do it. Without bylaws....you only have SOP's that were a guide at the time because standard is just that...the standard, not the final say. How does your troop/pack buy equipment? A couple of you get together and say lets do it or do you have to have a certain number of adult leaders that get together and have to have a certain number of votes? If it just majority, do you have to have a qourum or can two out of three adults be enough to go out and buy sometjing? That's what the bylaws are for. By laws don't care if it.,s just for a weekend trip or Jamboree. They don't care if two members don't like each other for spite. Think of bylaws as the constitution of any group. They can be amended, and can have new bylaws added, but unlike policy,they don't cover minor day to day details such as merit badge requirements!

Nope, never even came close to saying that! I said we don't stand for our teens or kids to fall for peer pressure to drink, smoke or watch porn. So why should we say peer pressure in how you dress is ok? Why would you fight against one type of peer pressure and turn a blind eye to another?

No,I don'tthink you arew close minded. I typed that for lack of a better word. I shouldn't have, so I take it back. I'm just saying, you chess club,band geeks, and other students of that nature wouldn't make fun of the unifroms. Only the kids who also happen to make fun of you if you don't wearthe exact same jeans they do that their dad bought at the "everything is $500 " store. Jeans are not the same as "THIER" jeans. For example: In hs, alot of us bought our Levi's brand jeans from Sears for say...$20 dollars. The snobbish kidsparents bought their from Belk's for $50. THos kids looked down on us because our jeans (which were the same ones mind you) were bought at an uncool store. Now, I didn't care what others thought. I never fit into any one group or clique of kids. I could hang out with all of them no problem. But I'd point out that I could buy 3 pairs of the exact same jeans (same brand/style and cut) for the price they paid for 1 pair. I basically told them they were stupid for paying 3 times as much for te same th9ing. That was peer pressure to be ....well dumb actually, but I didn't succumb to it. I'd tell my scouts the samething! That was 21 years ago ..roughly about. Gues where those cool kids are? You don't know? Neither do I! Good thing I haven't changed who I was to suit some kids that I don't even see anymore.

By-Laws are no standard operating procedures. SOP's change with the times, new advancements and programs. I don't mean scout advancement, I mean advancement in society or technology. SOP'schange with the worldand community. By-laws are the bsic fundamentals of what needs to be done such as if your treasuer decides to become reclusive with all the books and not report to the pack or what not. Bylaws would state a treasure has a duty to report pack/troop finances. SOP's would dictated wether by e-mail, phone call or in person at the meeting. By-laws demonstrates the channels a pack/troop can follow as far as legal issues, monetary or general procedure. SOP's dictate your program.

Okay, what I'm picturing is something betwen surgical scrubs shiryt and those black button up, but without a collar shirts that Japanese guys wear. Now thinking how some of my scrub shirts fit, that wouldn't be bad at all for clas be if no necker was involved.

I have a question. Now, what I have is actually pulled from AGE APPROPRIATE GUIDLINES....but I have to point out that following their line of thought... BB Guns could/should be okay on the den level. No, I'm not planning on doing BB guns (again! Ooops!) , just saying I could use the logic BSA used and use it for BB Guns.

Not to sound stupid, but what is the collarless shirt? Just a button up shirt with no collar? I guess it's a matter of style. Maybe something else. Personally, the colar doesn't bother ne, but having to keep messing with my neckerchief and slider...retucking it unfder my collar, having to unroll and re roll it and keep bending the tabs on my slider are just a big pain in the ASSterick! If I could put on my shirt and button it up and that's it - no neckerchief? . I'd be happier! But I admit, I like the way the neckerchief looks. but that's it!

Okay,when I said destination,i just meant getting the next rank for the sake of getting it...kinda like collecting patches. I like your version of destination better.

I'll give you a great example of why by-laws are needed.Years ago, I used to be a volunteer fireman. Matter of fact, it was originally my career choice (until marrage and kids makes you change your mind), I had taken many college coturses and was certified as a levelII firefighter in NC I was a ceretified EMT and Water Rescue level II I had my Emergency Vehicle Operactions Certification (EVOC) and CEVO. So anyways, just saying this wasn't some back woods bunch of rednecks......well, some were, but not enough to matter! LOL! WEll, to show you an example of a group of well intentioned, but mislead people, let me tell you how the depart,ment was set up. WE hada board of directores. They basically ran the financial and jegal side of the dept. The board president (or chair) was the chief of the FD/Rescue The board members were made up of the offocers of the dept. That consosied of one each from the fie and rescue side : Asst chief, capt, Lt, and member at large. The member at large was about the closest thing to being right, It seems that the people in charge were always the people in charge. Wether at fire or writting checks or deciding procedure. Now, the officers were choses each year by popular vote (sooo not a good idea) . Luckily for us, at least al the officers were actually highly trained and most had careers in their respective position on the FD/rescue sq. Department policy was that a person had to attend at least 2 meetings a year, one of them bing the Dec meeting (when voting was held) in order to vote for an officer or to hold a position. That means I could show up in Nov..decide who I thought was cool, vote for themn in Dec and not be seen again until next Nov. Now, if I was that person, it would mean I really had no idea of what was going on. Maybe I voted for Bubba because he was my friend? Maybe I got voted in because everybody thought I was cool. Guess what, I was in until I either quit or until next year when the vote was held. So what does this have to do with scouting right? Whos is your CC? Who is your troop/pack trainer? Who is your treasurer? Who is your advancement committee? Who is in charge of everything else? What if the stop showing up? How do you get them to either come back or replace them. What if your troop/pack registrar doesn't want to give up the books/records because his/her position is a one or two year term? How would you get those books back? Call the cops? Write up a set of bylaws and let a lawyer go over them. By laws are not made to nit pick this person or that person.They are not made to remove people, they are made to protect the organazation from people who do not do what they are supposed to, and hurt the pack/troop in the process!

I have a question Beavah. I really mean I have a question and not a hidden agenda. Without qouting you, I can pretty much say that you are about the quality of the program and put advancement at the bottom of your list of things that mean squat. That is to say,your vision of scouting is about the trip, not the destination. And I agree with it. But if a scout does not do a single thing in his position, and he's given 2 other positions that he does nothing in...then to say he's met the requirements is absurd! I'm not talking about a scout who isn't quite sure whatr to do, After being put in his 3rd POR,I'd assume somebosy would say something to him about his duties, If he isn't doing anything at all, he's just there for his next patch and working the system. I bet we( meaning any of us) could find another passage from BSA that says he did not meet the requirements and therefor fail to be advanced. I mean, I'm not saying lets truy to stop every scout for every indescression, but to not try to do anything is bassically embrassing a program directed at advancement.

Okay, I'm just joking around here. Trying to toss out some humor in a subject that causes some irritation - to say the least. We all have our own ideas of what ACTIVE and INACTIVE MEAN. (so does an on-line dictionary ) active: [ak-tiv] adjective 1. engaged in action; characterized by energetic work, participation, etc.; busy: an active life. 2. being in a state of existence, progress, or motion: active hostilities. 3. involving physical effort and action: active sports. 4. having the power of quick motion; nimble: active as a gazelle. 5. characterized by action, motion, volume, use, participation, etc.: an active market in wheat; an active list of subscribers. 6. causing activity or change; capable of exerting influence (opposed to passive ): active treason. 7. effective (opposed to inert ): active ingredients. 8. Grammar. noting or pertaining to a voice of verbal inflection in which typically the subject of the sentence is represented as performing the action expressed by the verb (opposed to passive ): Writes in He writes a letter every day is an active verb form. 9. requiring or giving rise to action; practical: an active course. 10. (of a volcano) in eruption. 11. Accounting. profitable; busy: active accounts. 12. requiring personal effort or attention; not automatic: an active alarm system. 13. interest-bearing: active paper. 14. Medicine/Medical. acting quickly; producing immediate effects: active remedies. 15. Sociology. (of a crowd) engaging in purposeful activity, often of a militant nature. Compare expressive (def. 4). 16. Aerospace. able to transmit signals: an active communications satellite. 17. Electronics. (of a device or system) acting as a source of electrical energy, as a generator, or capable of amplifying or converting voltages or currents, as a transistor or diode. 18. (of a solar heating system) accumulating and distributing solar heat by mechanical means. 19. Military. serving on active duty. noun 20. Grammar. a. the active voice. b. a form or construction in the active voice. 21. an active person, member, subscriber, etc.: The circular was mailed only to the actives on our list. 22. Informal. something showing considerable action or activity: On the stock market there was heavy trading in the actives. inactive:  [in-ak-tiv] adjective 1. not active: an inactive volcano. 2. sedentary or passive: an inactive life. 3. sluggish; indolent. 4. Military. not on active duty. 5. Chemistry. a. inert; unreactive. b. noting a compound that has no effect on polarized light. So what if we broke inactive down. Maybe into different ranks the same way scouts are, IE: Tenderfoot, 1st class, Eagle ...to name a few. Why not rank them in their inactivity? Inert: If the Scout does not initiate communication, the unit leader is to contact the Scout and ask if the youth wishes to remain in Scouting. If the answer is negative, then the unit leader should no longer communicate with the Scout. If the answer is affirmative, the unit leader should provide the unit calendar. Inactive: After six months of nonparticipation, the unit leader may cease to contact with the youth and drop the Scout from the unit at recharter time. reactivate: [ree-ak-tuh-veyt] verb (used with object) 1. to render active again; revive. verb (used without object) 2. to be active again. WEll?LOL! What do you think? While your at it, why not come up with word and definitions for other things pertaining to scouting!

By laws are a necessity. We hate to "Have to have them" but we need them. I think Beavah did a pretty good job of covering some necessary ones too. Bylaws help make and uphold descisions on what fundraiser puts money in a scouts pass book and what fundraiser doesn't. Those same bylaws help remove/replace an adult who is registered and in an authoritive position, who pays their recharter, but does nothing else. It also gives you solid ground on why you removed a scout from your pack/troop who does nothing but cause havoc and trouble. And I mean the scout who could set the building on fire in front of everybody..and their parents would sit right there and say their son was being framed! You know...The "My baby is an angel and the rest of the world is the problem!" kinda parents. That's what bylaws are good for, needed for. And even though there is an established chain of command pertaining to CO,COR, Committee, leaders and council ...sometimes copying that same chain of command in the bylaws also tends to stregnthen the chain of command. Beats me as to why it's needed, but have seen it work time and time again in fire/ ems/rescue.

Nope, no back patting here. But actually, you seem to be the one closing your mind here. Okay,the original peer pressure mentioned was the peer pressure of not wearing a uniform. So I ask you: "Who's is exerting this pressure?" Well, here's my answer: Not your fellow scouters, That would be just stupid! Not any volunteer or career scout leaders, Committee members, or Co's. Can't imagine the very people who are running the programs would pressure any scout into not wearing a uniform. Surely not your parents. They pretty much fork over the money and bought the uniform (most of the time) in the first place, If not,they at least have to alllow you to participate since minors can't legally sign up. Teachers? Guidance counselers? Grand parents? Your best friends? I doubt it. So who does that leave? We'll there is the GSA, but I figure they are too busy doing Girl Scout things than to be picking on boys. So now, we have the same people who usuaaly exert peer pressure: The same kids who pressure you to do what they think is cool such as drink, smoke,or anything else that isn't the acepted norm in society. Seriously now,,what other peer pressure groups are there? The "Lets just get straight syrup from the slushie machine, and you're a baby if you get ice!" ? Now, I'm not saying that any one person is telling your scout to smoke a cigareet instead of wearing the uniform. But why would peer pressure against wearing the uniform be an acceptable reason to not wear it? If that pathetic reason is accepted, then I can't see anybody standing up against smoking, drugs and teen pregnacy. Afterall, that stuff happens way more than kids getting bullied out of wearing a uniform! But I do know where there IS peer pressure: Pressure from mom and dad to be a super star and be the kind of kid that all the neighbors on the block wish their kid was! Pressure to be the scout who has the most merit badges, pins loops, or whatever. Pressure to be the unit that goes camping at least 1 more time than the next unit, patrol, troop. Pressure to be the scout who get more awards, holds more POR's spends more time in an elected position, etc.. Pressure to get your eagle at a younger age than the last eagle. Pressure to bow down, submit to, and think that the other scouters know more BUT DON'T PROVE IT because they try to change the subject by insulting instead of giving a resonable arguement by saying stuff like: "Keep patting yourself on the back Scoutfish!" You said there was peer pressure to not wear the uniform. What is that pressure and where does it come from? And why would you allow and condone it any more than the pressure to smoke, do drugs, skip school or steal? I mean,I know you wouldn't allow the boys in your troop or den to look at porn or smoke cigarettes at a meeting no matter what the peer pressure was, So why allow them to not wear a uniform because of peer pressure?

WOW Calico..that almost scares me! LOL!You are absolutely correct! See Beavah, I look at some names in here such as yours and OGE, SSS, Scoutnut, Calico, twocubdad and a few others,and listening to what you guys say, I get the feeling you all have around 29 years experience at the least,and some closer to maybe 40ish ton 50ish years . And not meaning any disrespect in any way, shape or form, I specifically get the impression of Wilford Brimly when I think of you and OGE. Again, not disrespecting you, but a compliment. But then as I read through posts on a daily basis I see scout parents, scout leaders, masters , asst scout masters, Cub masters etc ..you get the point, posing questions. Maybe they know the answer and just want confirmation. Maybe they are not sure what guidline or policy that their specific problem falls under. Maybe like me, they have no idea yet because with their limited experience...they never ran into that situation. Anyway,Beavah, lots of great posts and questions. And you give your advice and usually , cite the reference as to why. A few various members also give their answers. Then OGE will give an entirely different answer based on the exact same guidlines or policy you gave.Then so will Eagle, evmori and a few others. All of you guys will give an entirely different answer. Then a thread sometimes strays away from the original post because everybody is argueing what a particular rule means, what the spirit of the rule means and why it makes sense or is stupid. Now, I have no issue with good FRIENDLY argueing. I'm a NASCAR fan. Arguing is in my blood! The fun friendly - it doesn't matter afterward - arguing. I think it's actually good to have a freindly arguements . But my dilima is this: After reading all the posts, all the arguing , and diagreeing....at the end of the day, I still have no idea what I would, should, or ought to do to stay withing guidlines or the rules. And (no offense here) if you read my posts a little bit deeper when I talk about my son, you will sure see that I am that dad who will make sure my son does a minimum at least 50% of all work on any project. In prefer 90% , but sometimes that doesn't work out. PWD car spedifically.He decided what design.This year it was a German WWII light armored Scout vehicle. I cut it out. He clear coated, sanded, painted and attatched the weights to it. He actually wanted me to do the wheels since he didn't do so great last year. I am not the dad who will spend hours honing wheels and beveling hubs. We did not use any axle alligning tool or get out the micrometer like some dads have. Our biggest high tech tools are a postal scale and a tube of graphite. Pretty much, I want him to have fun even if he has the slowest car. I do not want an ultra competative kid who cries at night because he didn't place 1st in everything he does, and does not know how to handle defeat. I teach him that being too competative can suck the true fun out of events. Now getting back to the forums and posts,like I said, I have complete (maybe hinting on envy)respect for many of you in here. you guys are what I consider the "real world" experts: people who do it, live it, and breath Scouting. Not some corporate pencil pusher who's biggest outdoor experience was cutting the back yard. But the only problem I have here is that when I ask what I should stick in a round hole...I get one answer saying if I use a big enough hammer,the square will fit, 6 or 7 various answers about sanding down an octogon, two saying only a circle is BSA approved and another saying that the whole purpose of the program is for scouts to whittle the square down to fit! Then one post saying that shapes are not even G2SS recognized. So that is me. I actually don't just want an answer. I like answewrs with example or at least citing the rule that says why, so that in the future, I know what I should do. And I don't know if you remember your early years, but I can read a rule and get a different meaning than you or the next guy. But experience tends to clarify what was meant. And that's why I ask: the collective experience that is in this site. Well, gotta go,I am on the PWD staff. Can you imagine that? Only my second yesar (1st as a leader) and I'm helping run the PWD. Why? Because there are only so many who bother to help out! You gentlemen have a great weekend!

Now, even though I am in Cubs, I was talking about Boy Scouts, Other wise, I would have said the DL or CM should just call mom and dad and see what the deal is. AS far as active..well,maybe that definition says : "We don't care what you do as long as you pay your $$$$" But realistixcally, and as I se pointed out all the time in EBOR related posts:: A scout who doesn't participate usually also doesn't do anthing to earn an advancement. FOR EXAMPLE: First Class Rank Requirements 1. Demonstrate how to find directions during the day and at night without using a compass. 2. Using a map and compass, complete an orienteering course that covers at least one mile and requires measuring the height and/or width of designated items (tree, tower, canyon, ditch, etc.). 3. Since joining, have participated in 10 separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight. Demonstrate the principles of Leave No Trace on these outings. 4a. Help plan a patrol menu for one campout that includes at least one breakfast, one lunch, and one dinner, and that requires cooking at least two of the meals. Tell how the menu includes the foods from the food pyramid and meets nutritional needs. 4b. Using the menu planned in requirement 4a, make a list showing the cost and food amounts needed to feed three or more boys and secure the ingredients. 4c. Tell which pans, utensils, and other gear will be needed to cook and serve these meals. 4d. Explain the procedures to follow in the safe handling and storage of fresh meats, dairy products, eggs, vegetables, and other perishable food products. Tell how to properly dispose of camp garbage, cans, plastic containers, and other rubbish. 4e. On one campout, serve as your patrol's cook. Supervise your assistant(s) in using a stove or building a cooking fire. Prepare the breakfast, lunch, and dinner planned in require- ment 4a. Lead your patrol in saying grace at the meals and supervise cleanup. 5. Visit and discuss with a selected individual approved by your leader (elected official, judge, attorney, civil servant, principal, teacher) your constitutional rights and obligations as a U.S. citizen. 6. Identify or show evidence of at least 10 kinds of native plants found in your community. 7a. Discuss when you should and should not use lashings. Then demonstrate tying the timber hitch and clove hitch and their use in square, shear, and diagonal lashings by joining two or more poles or staves together. 7b. Use lashing to make a useful camp gadget. 8a. Demonstrate tying the bowline knot and describe several ways it can be used. 8b. Demonstrate bandages for a sprained ankle and for injuries on the head, the upper arm, and the collarbone. 8c. Show how to transport by yourself, and with one other person, a person ■From a smoke-filled room ■With a sprained ankle, for at least 25 yards 8d. Tell the five most common signals of a heart attack. Explain the steps (procedures) in cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR). 9a. Tell what precautions must be taken for a safe trip afloat. 9b. Successfully complete the BSA swimmer test.* 9c. With a helper and a practice victim, show a line rescue both as tender and as rescuer. (The practice victim should be approximately 30 feet from shore in deep water.) 10. Tell someone who is eligible to join Boy Scouts, or an inactive Boy Scout, about your troop's activities. Invite him to a troop outing, activity, service project, or meeting. Tell him how to join, or encourage the inactive Boy Scout to become active. 11. Describe the three things you should avoid doing related to use of the Internet. Describe a cyberbully and how you should respond to one. 11. Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Discuss four specific examples (different from those used for Tenderfoot requirement 13 and Second Class requirement 11) of how you have lived the points of the Scout Law in your daily life. 13. Participate in a Scoutmaster conference. 14. Complete your board of review. Looking at all of the above...especially numbers 1,3,4,7a, and 8, I can not possiblyb see how any scout would advance. You fdon't see or hear from him for 6 months? Can't imagine him doing #4e or 9c. 3 is trhe kicker, Participate in 10 events. No loophole there. There is no way he could cherry pick that either. A scout who does not talk to anybody for 6 months will not have the drive to 1 thing, much less more if he isn't active. And that scout or his parents get upset, all you have to do is show the requirements for advancement. Basically, National said: "Hey, make sure that the Scout really is inactive and not going througha slump,. brain freeze or something that is beyond his control. Give him 6 months and talk to him. If another 6 go by, they you had an entire year to determine he's not interested." And you know, if after a year,he wants to come back, he has to re register and start all over again. It's not like CUB SCOUTING where his age/grade will dictate his rank. Nope! His rank all depends on him being active, And I mean active by realistic standards such as getting off his butt and truely participating! It's simple: National didn't really give you a great final definition of active, but gave you a to precise, definant and well defined way to dump somebody who is not active!

Probably means that your World crest should be centered between your pocket and shoulder seam. It should be in line with the center line of your pocket. It means the world crest shouldn't be 1" above the pocket while being 4" below the shoulder seam.But nobody is gonna measure it if looks like it's a 1/4 inch too high/low. It means that your council, veteran and pack numbers should be centered on your sleeve and touching with the council pocket as close as possible to the shoulder seam. But they will not point out if the councl patch is 1/16 on an inch below the shoulder seam. Now, this is my INTERPRETATION of it. Yeah, so as far as I can see, that's all people can do. Everybody lists the exact same written staement, but then uses it to argue their own interpretation of what it means. I might as well jump on that bandwagon too! LOL! I would think Correct as possible means do the best you can to have it correct. This would include having your current POR sewn on, having your current rank sewn on too. It means having the flag on the right(which is right)side of your shirt and your council sewn on the right side (which is left) of your shirt. It means that you don't sew a badge onto your shirt when that badge belongs on a sash instead. It means if you have a shirt from the shirt closet, that you don't wear it with a badge that you have not earned. Not if your World Crest is sewn on and it's 2.457653 degrees out of level.

Biased on what? Tyhe people who would exert that pressure? It's not about any group, it's about pressure. Peer pressure is everywhere. But what I'm hearing is that boys will drop out of something they think is cool because people pick on the clothes? I doubt it, People are picking on that you are a scout. Now, I wouldn't even think to suggest to tell anybody what to do, but if anybody accepts the idea that being pick on for you uniform is why scouts drop out..they are sending the wrong message. And that message is : SCouting is a great organazation. But it's okay to hide it and succumb to what others think instead of taking pride in what you are!" Besides, if the kids who are pressuring you to smoke, do drugs,skip school, go to parties, have sex and what not are not the ones who are picking on your uniform...who is then? The girl scouts? The band club? The A/V club or Chess team? The Key Club or honor Society? I doubt it.

This is great! Your scout not doing anything? Drop him!" That is a very specific way to move on.

Skeptic: Suppose it was a border patch. Kinda like the 100 year centenial ring that goes around the World Crest? Could be a (for example) a red border patch for SL, blue for ASL green for PL yelow for SPL etc.. then you just stitch the dat on it or maybe have numbers kinda in the style of veteran patches. So basically your patch surrounded by a rank color border with a set of numbers right under/over it?

COOL! Now if they could only do that to ALL the other rules too!