Scoutfish

No, that isn't my pack camp out. Sigh.....! It's just that I was noticing two seperate trends going on in the forums: 1) People needing fresh ideas for campouts. 2) Older and more experienced scouters stressing and re-stressing the Fun part of scouting. Seems we over plan and try to account for every bit of the fun( while being educational and scoutlike) in every activity right down to the very smallest scouting moments. Why not just be spontaneous and just have a campout based on completely non-educational and non-scouting-productive activities! I keep reading about how packs have "Been there -done that" and everybody is just bored out of their minds over the same old camping experience. And the pack family campouts sound just like den meetings: everybody working on MB's and achievements. Sign off on this and sign off on that! Catch up on anything you missed. SCREW THAT! Let's just go camp, have fun and just do stuff that is fun just for the sake of it doesn't matter for anything! But DYB-Mike has a point: Open with and close with colors and some sort of ceremony!

This was actually a responce I posted to another post ( http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=264530 ) but I posted it because this subject seems to be popping up alot in the last few weeks. I also posted it here because it sems to transcend both Cub Scouting AND Boy Scouting - meaning it can affect boys at the Cub level and carry into Boy scouts or just by the time Cubs are ready to cross into Boy Scouts. I'm starting to wonder, as this seems to be a re occuring theme: "What can we do this year?".(Pack Family Campouts) Would it be wrong or against the program.....and I'm just talking about Pack Family Campouts here....not Distric,Council, or Jamborees.... to just say screw it! And just have a pointlessly fun Pack Family Campout? Instead of any particular merit or achievement based activities, why not just go with something like a 3 legged race , or sack races? Maybe a race wehere you go around an obsticle course while wearing scuba flippers on your feet. Maybe a batton relay where you spin with your head on the bat 20 times then hand off a nerf football to your team mate who is 30 foot away, who in turn wears a blind fold and has to navvigate an obsticle course only by listening to team memebr #3's voice! Coolwhip pie eating contests. Womanless beaty pagents for the dads. Talent contestswith strange catagories : ie: Biggest and loudest belch/burp, Dumbest trick, funniest joke Hoseshoes contest. I'd even mention egg tosses but that would be completely dependant on shower/bath facilities and LNT policies. Want your Pack Family Campout to be fun? Why not just old time goofing off! I mean, isn't this okay? Kinda brings back the whole "Fun is the priority" and also keeps the scouts from being bored by doing the same thing they do at den meetings. I mean, I love camping, and I have only gone once with the pack (so far), but I can see how doing the same thing for the next 2 1/2 years will get boring. Basically, it sounds like alot of pack family camping is just a den meeting in a tent! (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Wilmington just went National this past fall some time. Not exactly sure when. I went in one time and it was a council store. Next time I went in months later, it was National and WOW!...I was impressed in the difference in the amout and type of inventory there. Yeah, I admit to being alike a kid in a candy store! LOL!

OGE, I'll bite. What's the urban legend? LOL!

You know..I agree with you. I see it just like driver's education training: A new driving student doesn't just get in a car and drive. That student doesn't just drive with any licensed adult either. Nope, that student is taught, trains under and works with his Driver's Ed instructor. When that instructor feels the student is ready, that instructor will then go to the next level which is letting the student drive on the road (with the instructor , of course!). So , I can totally go along with a Patrol Leader training a newer scout at the ..ummm... Troop version of a den meeting. But I feel that - just like the Driver Ed instructor, the PL must be trained to do give training, or at least be supervised by an adult who can give training. See, then you have two things going on: a Scout learning a good skill amd a PL praticing a POR.

I'm starting to wonder, as this seems to be a reoccuring theme: "What can we do this year?". Would it be wrong or against the program.....and I'm just talking about Pack Family Campouts here.... to just say screw it! And just have a pointless fun trip? Instead of any particular merit or achievement based activities, why not just go with something like a 3 legged race , or sack races? Maybe a race wehere you go around an obsticle course while wearing scuba flippers on your feet. Maybe a batton relay where you spin with your head on the bat 20 times then hand off a nerf football to your team mate who is 30 foot away, who in turn wears a blind fold and has to navvigate an obsticle course only by listening to team memebr #3's voice! Coolwhip pie eating contests. Womanless beaty pagents for the dads. Just old time goofing off! I mean, isn't this okay? Kinda brings back the whole "Fun is the priority" and also keeps the scouts from being bored by doing the same thing they do at den meetings. I mean, I love camping, and I have only gone once with the pack, but I can see how doing the same thing for the next 2 1/2 years will get boring. Basically, it sounds like alot of pack family camping is just a den meeting in a tent!

You know what... not trying to go off subject..but "PARENTS" could be it's own Forum catagory! Anyways, I'm still new to being an ADL, but I hate when parents show up to a pack meeting, sit for 5 minutes, then go outside and talk on their phone or other parents the whole time, then waiyt and try to catch you as you are going home, so they can ask you 100 questions. Not sure about any other pack, but at our pack meetings, we get everybody in, give them around 15 minutes to settle in, the have our Color Guard come in and lead us in the Pldge of Allegiance, Scout Promise and motto. Then the next 15 minutes or so are devoted to announcements that families/parents/etc... NEED to here. Things like dues, upcoming events , trips or anything you might need to pay for. Then we talk about general what not stuff, then go into any dens that have skits. After that, we have each den come up and recieve any advancements or awards ( not AoL or Crossover )the scouts have earned. So pretty much..that parnet missed everything that was the reason for coming, INCLUDING THEIR SON'S MOMENT OF RECOGNITION! Then they have the nerve to complain because they didn't get a chance to snap a picture of jr getting his Rank Badge!

The Swiss Army Knife #1865. My local National store ( that make sense? LOL!) has them . As a faily new scout parnent, ans as a this year new ADL , I'd assumed that that would have been the "best" knife fora cub scout. Granted, There is a difference between using a particular knife and training/earning your wittling chip with a particular knife. Just think about those parents who don't go online to sites like this( and ask around), but just go to their local scout shop and buy one because it has the Cub logo on it!

I used a combination of what was in the bear book, online at BSA.org and what I raad here. Believe it or not, the Bear book works pretty well( for my son anyways) because it covers the basics, without talking "Over" the bears heads. The only thing we(my son and I) did different was we didn't carve the bear. It was just an example anyways. My son opted to carve a tank, an arrowhead , ans a Camaro-ish looking thingy! LOL! Oh yeah, one of the reasons I did it with my son is because our den wasn't going to do it. Turns out too many parents were too worried it was way to dangerous! At least that's what they said beforew putting their son in the car, taking off without checking to see if seatbelts were secure and running the stop sign as they pulled into rush hour traffic! LOL!

This may be the wrong forum. If so, I hope a moderator moves it. I have a question. Now, I know there is no exact answer, and many may have a different answer for it. And part of it may be more personal opinion on our part than anything else: I just recently bought my Bear Cub son a pocket knife to practice and work on his whittling chip. Nothing real fancy, just a stainless steel lock-blade knife. The blade is about 2 1/2 inches long. The handle is slightly thicker, and was the most comfortable feeling of the 5 or 6 he held. Now here's the thing.....up to this point, I never bought my son a knife. So therefore, I would have just assumed that one of the knives sold by the Boy Scout Store (ours is National) would be fineand completely age /experience appropriate. There is even a Cub Scout model with 2 blades. Now, I decided that experience beats what just "looks good". Apparently, that was a good decision too. Almost every single responce I got , told me to get a lock-blade knife. And the reasons made total sense. So here's my question: Why does The Scout Store sell a knife that (based on CM/DL/ADL/etc... responses) is not the wisest, safest choice? And to a certain extent - falls outside of BSA G2SS ideals? Is it because BSA can make a bigger profit if an item has a licensed BSA/CS/BS logo on it? Do they pick these items for a quicker sell? (no point in stocking stuff that wont sell!) Is it because it's more profitable? (they buy cheap and have a better profit margin?) Or do they have an advisory committee that decided that (in their opinion) that a simple non locking knive was just better/safer than a lock-blade? Again, not sure if this is the right forum, but could see the potential as to why national does anything and safety causing heated responces.

So....What's the difference between a totin chip and a Whittling chip besides the spelling? I'm working with my Bear Cub son on getting his whittling chip card. I have heard of totin chip but not sure if it's the same as when a few co workers and I talk about tools > I say: "My Screwgun" , another coworker might say "Cordless drill" , another might just say "Drill" , while the 4th will say :"Cordless". In the end, we are all talking about the exact same tool ( we all use DeWalt 18v cordless impact guns --- see, they are not even drills! LOL!) So is there a difference between totin chip and whittling chip or no difference at all? Is it an age/rank thing? Am I even spelling "totin" right? Inquiring minds (mine) want to know!

I neither like or hate the new badges. But i hate the principle behind it. My son joined as a Wolf Bear, so he doesn't have a Tiger badge. He has a Bobcat, a Wolf, and is about to get his Bear. But his Bear will say 2010 on it. His Bobcat and Wolf won't. The Bear won't match. Now maybe if his Wolf had 2009 and his Bobcat had 2008 (calendar year within fiscal year)..It might make sense. Next year, his Webelos won't have 2011 on it. I think they should offer both the new one and old one. And honestly, the new one doesn't say 100 years on it, so just 2010 really doesn't make sense. Consiering it's a 100 year thing that is. Personally, when I showed my son the link, he said he wanyted the old one because it matched his otrher patches, but would like the new one as a collectors item.. And this is froma 9 year old. A 9 year old who has no problem wearing a WWII helmet, with a tuxedo top with camo pants and flip flps on his nasty muddy feet to a wedding!

I have seen a negative association with somebody saying a pack, unit, or den is "My". And for the most part, I totally understand it. But I want to be clear. See, I say "My boys", "My den", and "My pack" quite often. But I do not mean "MY" as in I control, own, have rights to, or absolute total control. I just mmean I belong to that pack, work with that den,and these are the boys I try to mentor. I would have issues with a rogue DL. CM. SM or whoever , telling the rest of a pack or unit or CO to butt out because it was "MY den/pack/troop/unit. That sounds like ownership to me. That sounds like somebody too hig strung. No, not the biggest or most imperative issue in Scouting right now, but could see how saying "My" is a bad thing - could be taken trhe wrong way!

Although I am a Cub Scouter and not a BOY Scouter..... I just very recently (last night) found another way to look at what could be percieved as a mill. As of yesterday, my son has completed enough requirements and electives to earn his Bear badge, a gold Arrow Point, and a silver Arrow Point too. He is also working on his whittling chip card. So far he can tell and correctly demonstrate the safety procedures. I even copied a "test" from online and he took it. I just told him I want him to practice some more before going to his den leader for sign off on the card. WEll, at a field trip for all our pack's Bear Cubs last night, my son told another cub that he has earned his bear,gold AP and silver AP.And he was working on his whittling chip card. Well, that cub's parent overheard him and asked how it was possible since his child hadn't earned it yet.And said I probably was wrong about a Bear being allowed to use a knife. ( Yeah, they must have really read their son's Bear book!) So I explained about how most of the work was home base, that each child was different and there was no set timeline either for a cub to earn his Bear badge (other than trying to earn it before the year was over). But then I also explained that my son was fortunate in one other reguard: I have been home since Dec 15th because of surgery. I HAD cancer, but it was removed. (The surgery was on my neck/shoulder area.) I also showed him the whittling chip Achievement ( Cub Scout Bear Handbook #33451 - Achievement #19 "Shavings and Chips") In reality, I'm fine, but taking physical therapy and what not.I could be working right now, but the Dr wanted me to not go back to work until the 1st of Feb.Blah blah blah. Boring details. Point being, I'm not bed ridden or imobile. I can't do cartwheels, but couldn't do that before! LOL! So, I have been home for over a month and a half. You can only cook, clean, do chores and repairs so much before you run out of stuff to do. HEY! I know! Lets work on acheivements and electives! Between weekends, Thanksgiving,winter break, Christmas, New Years, teacher workdays and what not, I have spent more time with my son in the last 2 1/2 months than I have most of the year! I don't have to get up and leave at dark, only to get home at dark, at which point, by the time I shower, eat supper, and do necessaary c hores..I may not work on any achievements or electives. Okay okay, my poiint is.......... Some kids may have parents who only work part time, do not work at all,or could be retitred , maybe have a grandfather or mother who have time to kill. They may help Jr work on this requirement or that elective every chance they get. Sure, some things have to be done at meetings and some things can only be done by a scout, but even a little help makes a big difference and can cut the time needed for a requirement or elective down. Just something to think about!

Just found this rcipe, so I don't know how common or "been done" it is: Taco Soup Brown 1 pound lean ground beef, sautee onion, drain, add taco seasoning packet In sauce pan, add 1 can of corn, pinto beans, blackeye peas, black beans, diced tomatos, rotelle tomatoes w/chiles, 1 package of hidden valley ranch original, Add water as needed. Add in ground beef mixture. Cook on medium to low for a...bout 30 minutes. Serve: Top with cheese and sour cream. Obviously,this is just a small family recipe made in a kitchen, buts looks like it could easily be adapted for a DO and more eaters.

WOW! To me, the scent is the worst part. If it wasn't so expensive, I might go buy a few french vanilla candles for him to carve up! LOL!

Being a Cubber and not Scouter, I may not know all the rules in BOY Scouts, but I think any Scout not showing, living and demomstrating Scout Spirit could and shouild be refused sign off. Now, I know there is no set defined "scout Spirit" standard, but some things are pretty obvious: Constant fighting, lack of attendance during your tenure in a POR, not following pack rules, and things of that nature. Any scout caught forging... I would think tempoary suspenion or even a meeting about wether he is worthy of whatever his current ranks is: IE: 1st class might be only 2nd class material because I'd think nobody could even try to argue that forgery is anywhere near living with the spirit of scouting.. I am using a whitling chip card as an example here: Every minor safety infraction get 1 corner cut off your card. If all 4 corners are cut, you lose your card and right to carry your knife. A major safety violationand you lose the card at once. You then have tostart over and earn and prove that you can carry that card again. Again, I'm no Scout, but I thought the purpose was the inner growth, maturity and moral guidance of these boys. I thought scouting was the journey, not the destination. Those who lie, cheat, and steal their way to Eagle are only colecting a title. They are just checking off an acomplishment on their way to a resume or reference down the road. And as I am in Cubbing, and not BOY Scouting - I may be wrong.... but isn't EARNING your Eagle about doing just that...Earning it?

Let me clarify one detail: She is actualy my sister in law. He's just her husband, I call him B-i-l for lack of a better term. My apologies. And no fear of them seeing this.She watches tv all day, he goes to work, gets home, goes to his shed and plays guitar until bedtime, then goes inside to bed. All other family activities consist of going to Dr when somebody is sick or things like Christmas and Thanksgiving.

I have another thought too... Could it be possible that most of the boys wanted to be SPL or PL , but since "somebody else" got it, they didn't want to be anyting else? Know what I mean? "If I can't be what I want, I won't be anything!" But then turn around and say: "There are no positions for me!" Seen it too many times with kids: There can be 300 toys in a room, but if kid A can't play with the toy that kid B is currently playing with..kid A will cry to mom that kid B waon't share ANY TOYS! Or for your older teens..when we have family get togethers, one particular niece will want to change the tv to MTV and blare it, if I say no to THAT, she crys that she just can't do ANYTHING AT ALL, I hate her, oppression and tyranny and nobody cares about her feelings , blah blah blah....! Then she sulk for two hours with the whole "Woe is me, the world personally hates just me..boo hoo hoo!" Meanwhile in the scouting world, some kids are filling more than one position because nobody else will take it. Granted, the Scoutmaster SHOULD stop this fast and put his foot down, but "should" and "do" are two seperate things!

A pack family campout means the whole family in aparticular pack can go. This means momand dad AND sister and that brother who is just too cool to be a scout. This is different than a parent son campout where only a registered scout and A parent attend. Dens themselves cannot camp as an official Scout function. Except at Santioned council events and campouts. Unless you are a Webelos. Then you can camp on the den level. Does that clear it up? LOL!

While researching an entirely different subject matter, I ran across this: Unit leaders are not automatically approved to serve as merit badge counselors. Question: Must individuals who are serving as a merit badge counselor register as a merit badge counselor with the Boy Scouts of America? Answer: Yes, an Adult Application must be completed for each position in which the individual wants to serve. The application allows only one position per form. For instance, an individual who wants to serve only as a merit badge counselor will need to complete only one application. However, a Scoutmaster or assistant Scoutmaster who wants to serve as a merit badge counselor must complete two applicationsone for the Scoutmaster position and one for the counselor position. So what does this mean? Could mean alot, or it could mean absolutely nothing. A Webelos badge is not a Merit badge. But maybe the principle is the same. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/FAQ.aspx

I'ma Cubber, not a Scouter, so I'mnot the expert here, but i did stay at a Holiday Inn last night! LOL! Seriously, I searched and search abd looked all over. I googledand typed your question in at least 15 different ways. Every result that came back for anybody holding more than one position ..had to do with adult leadership and committee members. And even then,it was only if it had to be, not prefered to be. But now let me ask. What are the positions? I mean, is a scout a SPL and also "Chief tent stower" after camping trips? Not all positions are real positions. Sometimes positions are just duties doled out to certain individuals. Not questioning your smarts...just saying, some positions may not mean anything whenit comes to advancement ( or anything offical, therefor, wouldn't be an issue.

If I knew they wouldn't saty up til 3 am, I'd tell them something like: "Well boys, BSA rule 12-4 says that when two boys travel to a campout in the same truck, they have to sleep apart from the adult who drove. Sorry, but that's the rules!" LOL! Honestly, I'd rather sleep by myself, but young boys still being YOUNG boys, I could see issues arising. My son is big boy until something get's hurt....Gotta find MOM! Then even if he doesn't cry to her arms, he at least has to let her check it out and "OK" it! Not sure what my nephew does. Don't want to be waken up at 1 am because he wants to go home or snuggle. I suppose if he sleeps in my tent WITH MY SON and me, that would be avoided, but still not my first choice.

I have an Ozark Trail tent from Wal-Mart. Nothing special, just your run of the mill tent. The first time I (and my son)slept in it...the temperature dropped from 64 down to 39 degrees or so. It wasn't humid outside,and the dew was minimal..yet when I woke up, the inside was a rain forest too. A week later, same tent, again, me and my 9 year old son slept in it at our pack campout. First night, it was high 60's low 70's and humid. No rain forest. next night, dropped into the low 40's..no rain forest. The only thing I can figure is that our breath might have created the humidity. OR it was brand new and hadn't had a chance to breath from the factory or maybe settle/break in. First time, I thought I wa=oke up in jungle Africa. After that,, been fine.

Okay, I have mixed feelings about this. I don't want to label his parents but..... They are just FLAT OUT LAZY!!!! They will do something as long as it interests or benefits them and that's about it. Dad is the greatest dad alive on birthdays and Christmas and that's about it. Mom, means well, but that's as far as she goes..meaning it, not doing it. So I kinda want to help guide him, but I have to be careful. I already drive( I take turns with my wife) my son and nephew to school . If my wife and I can't - like when I had surgery, MY mom drove him. She also drove my nephew because somehow...it didn't occur to his parents that they could drive the boys to school. Completely oblivious. So If I start driving my nephew to den and pack meetings too..where would it stop? I already paid for half his patches as well as picked them up, got then sewed on his shirt, picked up his belt, slider,neckerchief and hat. I went and got him his PWD car after his mom asked me to, and pretty much , I'll be paying for it too since it's been 3 weeks and they haven't paid me back. Sure, it hasn't added up to an enormous amount yet, but you see the trend right? I also turned in his application and fee (which his parents actually paid). Okay, that in itself wasn't a biggie, but you'd think they would have turned it in themselves at a meeting. So, if I take my nephew to meetings, am I gonna have to do it every meeting? Will I have to not only take him to campouts and such, but will I have to start paying for it too? I guess it comes down to the principle of it: he's not my son. It's not my job to be his dad when he has a completely capable dad and mom too. But on the other hand, not only is he family, but as some of you said... a boy who probably needs scouting more than some of the others do. Scouting might be one of the few and far in between places he'll ever get that mentor- father/son type atmosphere while growing up. I guess I want to help, and I'm mad his parents don't do it themselves, but at the same time...I don't want to set a precident here with him. That make sense to anybody?