Scoutfish

Don't you just hate when it makes sense in your head, but you leave some out in print? LOL! "Well, technically, the book says explain. That's all they ahve to do. But I see nothing wrong with them memorizing it either. They will have to one day anyways. But going technical, it sounds like he's overstepping his bounds." I left out part of what I meant to say. It should have read: " But I see nothing wrong with them memorizing it either. They will have to one day anyways. But I would not require it . That is adding to the requirements."

LOL! My son is a very smart, very good kid. So is the DL's son, So is one other parents son. But put them 3 together... Well, I'll call my son Gasoline, call the Dl's son Matches, and the active parent's son Paper! You get my point? Each on his own is greatm, but together,m they can be disruptive.Yet..they love to hang out with each other,. All about Star Wars and G.I.Joe. I get what you mean, but the buddies side of it isn't so good with about half of then. But I also understand that we can't "make" the friends either.

Well, technically, the book says explain. That's all they ahve to do. But I see nothing wrong with them memorizing it either. They will have to one day anyways. But going technical, it sounds like he's overstepping his bounds.

I have a question , that doesn't quite fall into the guidlines of YP. Well,maybe it does and I don't see it. I have a nephew with less than enthusiastic parents: http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=263903 So there is a possibility that neither of his parents would be willing to take him to our spring pack campout.That would suck for him and I'd hate for him to mis that oppertunity. So if I was to take him, and adhering to YP guidlines... Would my nephew be able to stay in my tent with my son and myself? I'm thinking his mom could write a note allowing me to be some sort of temp guardian when she signs the camping permission slip. Now,I'll be honest...I'm 6'2" tall and weigh 249 pounds. My son and I pretty much almost fill up our "4 man" tent. We could squeeze him in, but it would be snug. I'd rather my nephew have his own tent beside mine Or my son sleep in my nephew's tent with his cousin, and I sleep alone! Actually, I'd love to do it the last way, but in the real world of "spooky woods full of killer attack ninja space robots" and whatever else their imagination come up with 5 mins before bed time - might mean my nephew wouldn't like it,. my son wouldn't like it and there would be problems. So in reality, I'm thinking my nephew should stay in our tent with us. So. What does Youth Protection say about this? Is this sorta thing allowed or not?

First let me say this: We are not splitting a den mid year. I cannot imagine anything good would come of it. This is something we are going to do at the beginning of the next fiscal year. Okay, Our Bear den has between 23 - 25 Bears on any given night, depending who shows or not. Yeah, this is way to many, but my pack had problems with parents voluntering or stepping up as Den Leaders. So This year, I as well as another active parent became ADL in our den. Our CM ACM, and the DL asked me about being a Webelos Leader next year. We talked about splitting our group of 25 boys into at least two dens of 12 and 13 at the very least, but would actually like to make them 3 dens of 8,8, and 9 respectively. We are considering the possibility of 4 dens depending if Scout Roundup brings in more boys. The CM, ACM and my son's DL asked me to be a leader, and though I can't swear on it, I think the other ADL will be a leader too. Now, that's as far as we have talked so far. At this point, it's JUST ME thinking. How would you break up a den? In theory, I'd think you would want an equal mix of boys in each den. The good ones, the bad ones,the shy ones , the ones who find things easy, as well as the hyperactive bouncing off the wall ones. Hopefully, the stronger of the Webelos could help the weaker ones . Maybe a "showing by example" kinda thing. BUT... I also wouldn't want some very good Scouts slowed down or held back by another scout. And by that, I don't mean badges or Arrow Points, I mean things like Webelos appropriate hikes or even something like a flag ceremony. If one kid needs extra time ( which I absolutely don't mind at all), I'd hate for another kid to just be standing around. Of course, that's also part of the promise of helping the pack too. Okay, I'm not a Webelos leader yet, It's half a year away. But I try to plan ahead , at least to the point that I and the Webelos won't be standing around because I have no clue. You know what I mean? You don't wait to plan and pack for your hike the morning of the hike...you plan and pack ahead of time. I also know that every kid is different and not every kid will get AoL or be an Eagle one day. Some will prosper and same may already be counting the days until they can drop out. That's life! So I guess my question is this: How and why did you split/divide your den(s) the way you did?

WOW! Glad to know that! I went and bought three- 3packs of ivory soap yesterday( for a grand total of $3.75). He's whittled three of them down already. Made an arrow head, a Camaro ( I think!) and the 3rd one he just shaved into oblivion. I thought the soap kinda crumbled away too easily, but we also just opened them up and started carving away....cough,cough...I mean whittling away! Thanks for the info. I'm gonna open all the packages and let them dry out. Incidentally, my 9 year old son spent more time around soap yesterday than he has in his entire life! LOL!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Okay,I have seen the Veteran Bars in various diagrams/ uniform inspection sheets and even in the back of both of my sons Cub Books. But I never actually knew for sure what it was. I assumed it was for indicating previous scout enrollment - meaning if you were a scout in say......New Jersey, and later in life moved to Colorado or something, you COULD display your old den numbers. I thought that was your veteran part.Or if you were a scout way back when, and just started helping you local pack/troop, you could display the unit or den # from your youth. So last night, I see the Veteran Bar in my Cub Scout Leader Book (#33221) and if I understand it right... It is just an indicator of how long your pack or troop has been in service starting at the 25 year mark. This is correct , right? Okay, so if this is correct,and other members of my pack wear the Veteran bar ( not all for some reason).... should I be wearing it too? I'm only in my second year, so I don't want to disrespect, but if it's a pack/troop thing, it's for the pack, not individual people. I mean, CUBS WEAR IT TOO AND WE ALL KNOW THAT YOU ARE ONLY IN CUBS FOR 5 YEARS..YOU'D NEVER EARN A 25 YEAR PATCH. Or am I just overthinking again? LOL!

Snow_White, One more thing. I told my son that after I teach him all the stuff he nees to know, and after he takes that little written test, can recite/ demonstrate all the safety rules, and signs the pledge.... his Den Leader still must sign off on his Whittling Chip Card........if he thinks my son has proven he's ready.

Snow_White, Well, I am doing it at home. I guess because I'm an ADL , I went ahead and steped up.Our DL is also working with his son and the other ADL is working with her son too. I think we have a total of 7 Bears workking on their whittling chip. We are doing it tis way for 2 reasons: 1) With soooo many boys - 24 or 25 depending on how many show up, we didn't really want to have that many boys holding knives. You know how they are at that age. They me calm for 90% of the time, but all it takes is thjat one Cub to get hyper. Can't imagine anythuing good comingh out of it. 2) Well, some of our Bear could probably pass for small BOY Scouts instead of Cubs. They seem to act more mature than others. At the same time, there are som Cubs I don't trust carrying suckers or lolliepops without getting stabbed or poking their own eye out. The Dl and other ADL fel the same way. Now, of course, we could even divid the boys into 3 groups for some watchfull one on one, but what happend when they get home? And I say that because those particular boys seem to have parents who may not know their childs den number, rank or what he's working on. TRANSLATION: A Cub who's parents don't have the time or take the time to know what's going on, so probably, this Scout would be running around the house carving this, that,the cat and hjis own fingers too. Basically, some of our Bears are just not ready or mature enough for a toy knife much less a real one.

WOW! I don't want to be a kill joy, but how about some beef stew? Toss some cut beef or roast, cut up some potatoes and carrots and add a dash or ten of salt and pepper?

WEll, not sure if any of you saw this one, but it went overreal well at our last pack campout. A den will come to front center and one cub gets on his hands and knees. He is a lawn mower. Then the Den Leader comes up and says : " Okay boys, this yard is a mess, we really need to cut the grass!" So one of the boys walks up to the cun on his knees and pretends to pull on the starter cord. The cub on his knees make a weak motor sound and stops. Each cub in turn does this. Then the Cubmaster walks up and says :"What's going on?" Then one cub says : "WE were going to cut grass, but can't get the mower started." The cubmaster says : " Let me try." and pretends to pull the starter cord. When he does the "mower" scout starys Running really loud and takes off , and one of the scouts says :" Oh, all that was needed was a big jerk!"

SSS...You'e not gonna pour catsup on me, are you? LOL!

scottteng, no..that actually makes perfect sense! So it seems that maybe they shoulsn't have compacted all 3 different subjects into two paragraphs covering two seperate pages(seperated only by pictures of badges on page 21-6) Or they were just too brief in how they wrote it. Maybe you should have written that part of the book! LOL!

"One guide I was taught long ago (don't remember the source) stated that the closed knife should fit comfortably in the youth's palm and when they close their fingers around it, it shoudl be mostly covered by their fingers." AWESOME! The knife we got is completely hidden by his hand when both knife and hand are closed. It's just a single blade. Knowing him, he'd use the attachments to tear my house apart or something. It's not carbon ( for $6.00) but a slightly sheap stainless steel. Not a high dollar knife, but it's just until he gets familiar with using one. If he still has all his finger after a few months, I'll buy him a better one.

Looking in my Cub Scout Leader Book ( #33221) I see something that has me confused. Now, I realize that it may just be me. Maybe I'm just not understanding it right. But maybe the printer, copy chief or editor just missed it. Anyways CUB SCOUT LEADER BOOK (#33221) Page 21-5 Advancement Webelos badge "A Webelos Scout is required to earn eight of the 20 available activity badges on the trail to earning the Webelos badge and Arrow of Light Award." Page 21-7 Compass Points "After completing the Webelos badge, the Webelos Scout may recieve compass points for earning additional activity badges. The compass points emblem is presented to the boy who has earned four activity badges in addition to those required for the Webelos badge ( for a total of seven). A metal compass point. to be pinned to the emblem, is awarded for each additional activity badges that the boy earns." Say what? So does a Webelos Scout have to earn 8 as the first paragraph states, Only 3 as the second paragraph states since a total 4 ( 7-4=3 )is for the compass point, or would it be 12 since 8+4=12 ? Is this a typo, really really bad math, or are two different groups just not fitting together? I mean, I understand that certain achievements have to be completed to get a rank badge. I understand that after getting rank, you earn extras - in Bear, this is Arrow Points. But in both Wolf Cubs and Bear Cubs, the math added up! I plan on being a Webelos - first year - leader next year. I'm thinking I ought to be able to understand how rank advancement works. Doesn't that seem like a good idea to you? LOL!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Eamonn: That is exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for! People learn from their mistakes,and that's cool, but I don't want the boys to suffer because of my mistakes! I know everybody won't think my questions are stupid. I was just being funny there. but then again, some will! They will roll their eys and laugh. That's okay, everybody needs to laugh! Now, I'm not trying to rush the boys, I'm just wanting to work at the rigfht level. Sometimes I can't get my thoughts to transition to type so well. I'm not trrying tu rush them into scout. but I don't want to hold them back either. The reason I'm going to be a WEbelos leader next year is because my son will be a Webelos next year. I don't want to rush them, but don't want to hold them back either. But I know that Webelos is in between Cubs and Boy scouts. Honestly, my biggest fear is that when it comes time for them to become scouts...it turns out they didn't get enough of a WEbelos program. I'm not gonna be an Arrow of Light "mill" . And by that, I will not demand everybody has that award. But I will encourage then to the full potentialand ask them to do their best. It may turn out they decide that Scouting isn't for them. And I have found out from this site that the biggest requirement is for the boys to have fun! And I completely agree! If it's not fun..it'swork. Work sucks and you will lose thie interest!

Well, I guess I do some things right even if I didn;'t know it was right. When we had our pack campout, we were responcible for our Fri supper. Everything on Sat was planned. Wolved did breackfast, Bears did lunch and tigers did supper (which was a 200 pound pig cooked on a cooker) Anyways, we hit Micky D's on the way to the camp at 3 pm. I went to a dollar store and bought two 15" X 24" disposable aluminum/thick foil pans. I raked the leaves aside in a 3 foot area and set one of the pants on 4 red bricks( stood up vertically) I brought from home. I have a charcol heater ( I thinks thats what it's caled)that I lit the coals in and set in the pan. When the coals were ready, I dimped them out ofthe heater and into the pan. We cooked hot dogs and marshmellows. When done and completely cooled, I stuck the whole thing in a trash bag.

Okay, I suppose a lot of you have read some of my posts by now. And be honest: I know quite a few of you log in, see my name and think: "Oh God! What kind of dumb-ass question is he gonna ask today?" Well, they are dumb questions! But they are not dumb questions! Say What? My point is - they are dumb questions for well experienced scouts who have logged plenty of time in the Scouts. They are especiialy dumb questions for long time leaders who used to be Scouts themselves! They are GREAT questions for people who are new to scouting. Now remember, Scouting knowledge is not instinct. We are not born with it. You didn't "just always" know it either. There was a time where you were taught, had to practice and learn it too. The biggest difference between me and you is that: 1) Having the internet and forums like this lets us talk about anything! 2) I'm not afraid to ask any question , even if you think it might be stupid! I'm not embarrassed nor to shy to ask! See, my entire collective Scouting resume started Aug of '08. I went to school to sign my boy up. I had no idea or knowledge of Tigers, Wolves, Bears, WI, WII, or that Boy Scouts and Cub Scout wasn't an interchangeable or universal term. I was just a brand new to Scouting parent with a brand new to scouting son. But I was an active parent,. I helped the pack and my den leader with anything they needed. I attended den meetings, pack meetings and was invited to sit in on leader meetings which I also attended. This year, I was asked to be an ADL. I was taking some internet training and learning stuff when I was diagnosed with Stage III Melanoma Cancer. The necessary MRI, CT,and PET scans, and 2 surgeries pretty much sidetracked my training. So I am behind. But having been declared free of cancer now... I have schedualed what training is necessary to catch up. Now, in my current Bear Den, we have between 23 and 25 boys depending on who shows up. That is a lot and we have to split into two groups most of the time. I just revcently had a talk with the CM, ACM and my DL and we decided that I should take my training for Webelos instead of Bear cubs. This way, we can split our current den into two if not three dens next year.. Well,the year is about half over. If I'm going to be a WI leader next year, and I take WI training, I should have no problem handling being a ADL this year. Now, since Webelos is a transition between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, I want to make sure I'm going to do things right. My concern is for doing a great job with the boys and not screwing up. I want to do a truely meaningful program and not hinder any boy from being a scout. Basically,I want to do the job right. It's about them, not me. I don't want to ruin it for them. I do not care how I look as long as it works for them. So being the inexperienced person I am, I may have many questions that - to you - look just plain stupid and dumb, but to me, they are questions that can make a difference betweena great time and a disaster! So please, laugh at me and pick on me if you want, but also, take my questions as a sign of wanting to learn, to understand and actually know. I see so many argued and differet "facts" about many subjects and BSA rules right now. You argue what BSA says all the time. Some of you "experienced experts" cannot agree what a particular guidline or rule means, so how am I - a newbie - supposed to understand it? So anyway, my point is this: At one time....way back when....you might have wanted the same answers I do. You might have had the same questions I do. I ask because it's not about me, it's about the scouts!

Basement, I'm planning on taking all the training. Lined up right now with Leader essentials, leader specific and BALOO. I just became an ADL about a month ago. I have taken 10 online corses so far. The only reason I haven't had classroom so far is because of conflicting schedule: Had few surgeries to remove an egg size cancer out of my right neck/shouilder area. And as Murphies Law would have it, every surgery, followup, scan/test/ appointment fell on a date of training offered by my or other councils. Well, I'm clear of cancer and almost recovered as much as I ever will( I'll have 90- 95% use of my arm), so now....I'm just waiting for class dates to roll around. And I talked it over with my cubmaster and DL . Instead of taking leader for Bears, I'm going to take leader for Webelos as they want me to take on den next year. Right now, our Bear den has 25 boys in it! Yeah...25. We are gonna break off at least 1 if not 2 dens from the current one. Anyways, that's why I' asking so many webelos/ BOY scout related activities questions. All my limited experience is with Wolf Cubs and Bear Cubs.

Having thought about it, I see two ways to describe an Eagle Mill. 1) From an old saying about being a Pervert: A pervert is only somebody who has gone "farther" than you. When you go that far, a "pervert" is still somebody who went farther than you. Kinda like no matter how fast you drive, anybody who drives faster is an idiot! It's all relative, If you turn out 20 Eagles a year, then any troop that does 27 is a mill. Likewise, if you turn out 40 Eagle a year, a troop that turns out 50 is a mil. 2)I would define a mill as a troop (or pack), as one that after a Scout earns a particular badge/patch, they forget it and move on. They do not practice it, they do not live it or use the skills involved with "earning" it. It was just a chek mark on a bigger list of fish to fry. Earned today, forgotten tomorrow. But if a Scout earns that badge/patch, uses the skills, lives the skills and requirements and uses them throught his scouting career and life,then it wouldn't matter to me if he has all 121 by the time he's 16 (not saying it can happen ,mind you). Some peole just have a knack for motivating other people. In school, I had teachers who just made everything not only fun,but interesting too. We all excelled in those classes, But we actually truely learned that stuff too. My drama teacher was about 1 certificate from being certified crazy. But I can almost remember every single day in her class. One of my math teachers wasn't even half as exciting as Ben Stein in Ferris Bueller's day off ( Bueller...Bueller...Bueller..)I failed that class only to pass it next year with a teacher who liked math too much if you ask me. So, there are some troops/patrols/units that may just excel because the program director Troop Leader, SPL just really connects with them. The key,is just figuring out which troop you are in.

It's funny. I actually considered not getting a lock-blade because I thought that it might be too complicated and he'd cut himself trying to close it. But thenafter reading what everybody wrote,it made sense as he might pull backwards, turn it sideways , etc and cut himself that way too. Probably more likely that way. I bought a small $6.00 LB knife with a 2 1/4 inch blade yesterday at the Army/Navy Surplus store. Kinda has a slightly thicker handle and he said it felt better than a few other knived we tried. But then again, he bought dummy pineapple grenade and a WWII M-1 helmet made in 1941 for $20.00 No liner, no cradel or chin straps: just the outter shell. He's all but forgotten the knife for now! LOL! Gonna buy a 12 pack of Ivory soap today. It will be the most time he's ever spent around soap! LOL!

Okay, just a "I'm just curious" question here. I don't have an issue with it, don't foresee a problem with it, haven't actually been in that situation yet either. So here goes: Not being in BOY Scouting, I do not read BOY Scout books, manuals , nor am I intimate with any great knowledge of the rules,procedures, or guidlines of BOY Scouting. Now having said that, while working a PWD workshop a few weeks ago,I had time to kill and was looking at a 1964 print BSA Camping guide book. Cool book by the way: all pictures were drawn - no photos at all. The camping was completely different than today. Tents were actually lean to looking things made by lashing 3 poles together , tossing a tarp over them, and facing the open end away from the wind. You raked leaves/straw up and covered it with a tarp for a bed. But then here's the part I was wondering about: For head/latrine services, you dug a hole about 1 foot wide by two foot long and squatted over to do your buisness. Then covered it up. Now, in another post, it was mentioned that digging a hole for a dutch oven (making a coal pit) would be against LNT. So, my question is: Wouldn't making a "dirt toilet" be against LNT? I mean,I realize you can't hold in in forever, you don't want to stick it in a bag and in your pocket either. In 1964, zip-lock bags weren't exactly laying around either. And cooking isn't the same as pooping either!(At least we hope! LOL!) So maybe it's changed since then, but I never heard about anybody taking a portable jon on a hike either. Like I said, not an issue, not trying to start an arguement, just curious. AS a Cub parent/ADL, this isn't something I have dealt with because we have not gone deep woods camping. But I am looking at becoming a DL for Webelos I next year, so this info will; definantly be handy to have! Thanks- Scoutfish

Remember Jackie Gleason and "Big John"? A scout walks into a pretend bar/saloon( or in this case..a soda shoppe) . He looks at the bartender/counter person and says :"Everybody hide, Big John is coming!" "Everybody else sayd "OH NO! NOT BIG JOHN!" The bartender, who is new to town doesn't knoiw who Big John is, asks " Who is big John?" The scout who ran in sayds:" He the biggest , toughest meanest peson you ever saw!" Everybody starts to leave, except the bartender/counter person who is doing last minute cleanup. JUst as te bartender starts to walk out, a big guy rides up on a brahma bull and dragging a mountain lion on a leash. He gets off the bull, punches it and knocks it out cold. He then picks up the mountain lion, slaps it silly and says "SIT!" to it.Then walk into the saloon. The bartender is scared silly. The man says ( in a deep loud voice):"Give me a shot of whiskey!" The bartender pours him a shot and hands it to him. The guy slams it down and then say:" Gotta go, Big John is coming!" so you may have to change the scenary and setting. Use the smallest scouts to start with, and maybe your biggest adult for the guy on the bull.

We had a night hike at our pack campot. Now realize, we were not just in the woods. We were at a Presbyterian camp, A rough camp,but a camp none the les. There were "established" paths and trails that interconnected between open filed, narrow fields (more like a dog leg on a golf course) and nature areas. We waited until at least an hoyr after dark and told all participants that they could NOT bring along any lights. A few adults brought some just in case, but didn't use them during regular hike. It took about 4 minutes for everybody to realize that once their eyes adjusted, they could actually see better without a light ( as you can only see in the light disbersment area). WE saw yellowish eyes in tree canapies. Owls I guess? Oh yeah, only scouts who had a parent accompany them could participate. And out hike leader gave every Cub Scout this one important piece of advice before we started: "If something crawls across your foot, don't bother screaming, because they only bite once!" LOL!

Well,I just like the way a slooooow cooked meal tastes! I use a crock pot at home all the time. I figured if the made one, you wouldn't spend so much time working a fire and coals. Kinda thought there might be one where you heated up coals and buried the whole thing. But I did realize that using one in the woods would be the equivelent of sending dinner invitations to Yogi and his friends! Old Gray Owl, yeah, Thats exactly what I was talking about. Since my son and I are into scouting, and will be camping more, it might come in handy,. But, please everybody - realize that some camping trips may just be me, the wife and son at a family campground along the coast somewhere....maybe at a NASCAR race too! Not ALL camping trips are deep in the wilderness. But I do appreciate all the responses. I can count all my camping trips on both hands and most were before I was an adult!