RememberSchiff

There once was a boy who was a vegetarian and a girl who was vegan. They were drawn to the fellowship of the famous feast, but were turned away. "You must eat the beast to join our feast." "But sir, we must be true to our beliefs and ourselves, can we not contribute our food and join in your feast? We have more in common than you know and much to give." "You must eat the beast to join our feast. That is the our way, the all-knowing way, now be on your way." The boy and girl wandered away from the table of good people and became lost and confused. The years passed and the feast filled fewer chairs at the table. So off the good people went to invite their new neighbors. "Won't you join our feast?" The vegan and vegetarian stood smiling with their son and daughter, "Must we still eat the beast?" "Of course, all must eat the beast to join our feast." "No thank you, but you are welcome at our feast whether you eat veggies or not." "At a feast, everyone must eat the beast." "Not at our feast, everyone may join who seeks fellowship, no matter what they eat or even if they eat at all. Won't you visit our table at least." "Outrageous, that is no feast, everyone must eat the beast!" And the good people walked away and the new neighbors closed their door. Both groups had much to give, but neither sat at the other's table. One group grew, the other whithered.

Scouter Firekat, on behalf of scouts and scouters who follow the Scout Oath and Law, I want to apologize for the poor judgment and un-scoutlike behavior that you recently experienced. As you have reminded us, hurtful language is not part of the scout program and I wish I could tell that the need for such apologies are rare or becoming more rare. They are not. Thank you for standing up and upholding the higher scout standard. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Good topic. I only get TWO wishes, I will consider my choices further. But John's choices are certainly worthy and I offer this feedback. Cooking Merit Badge - FIGHT OBESITY and consider special diets (something along these lines). Make it 22nd mb or drop Communications as previously mentioned. Expand requirement 2 to cover OBESITY and the need for special diets. Plan a month's "special diet" for either of the following: 1. Weight management a. Visit your doctor or a nutrition specialist. Determine what your ideal weight should be and design a diet to reach your ideal weight. Talk about effects of junk food and lack of exercise b. Prepare a menu plan for a month (or longer?) to reach your weight goals. c. Prepare an exercise plan. d. Keep a weight and BMI chart for that month OR 2. Special Diet - same idea as above but the focus is on special diet restrictions/needs Also add info on using a meat thermometer. Adult School of Outdoors? That's a broad topic area. Do you want adults to hunt and skin rabbits as my uncles did? Catch, clean, and fry fish (watch the mercury)? Paddle a canoe , row a boat? Know wilderness first aid? Basic hiking? Outdoor Leadership school? Campfire grill? Or just SC and FC skills (OLS?) Anyway, I think you need further specification.

What happen in the forum: Cub Scouts topic: Improving Webelos Programming error '80020009' /forums/viewThread.asp, line 32

Thanks for the feedback, especially those notes from raisinemright and local1400.

Can't make everyone happy? No easy solution? I don't want to give you an answer. This is a good leadership exercise for you and your scouts; it is excellent that you are sharing the exercise with them. A leader uses good judgment to make good decisions to achieve group success. What is success for your troop and how do you get there? Asking advice is good whether you are a new leader or an experienced one, but you make the decision. You'll do fine.

http://www.stadriemblems.com/scoutstock.html Look on the left margin menu and select Cub Scouts, Webelo, whatever. I have used them for patches. Sorry that I got side-tracked with legal and levity.

"We have a Ford in the White House and no gas" - Bob Hope "It is easy to find President Ford on a golf course, just follow the wounded" - Bob Hope "the man who made golf a contact sport." "You all know Jerry Ford -- the most dangerous driver since Ben Hur. Ford is easy to spot on the course. He drives the cart with the red cross painted on top. Whenever I play with him, I usually try to make it a foursome -- the President, myself, a paramedic and a faith healer. One of my most prized possession is the Purple Heart I received for all the golf I've played with him. "Whenever I play with Ford these days I carry 13 clubs and a white flag. I try to win only enough from him to pay my extra insurance premiums." - Bob Hope President Gerald Ford was the only President to have earned Eagle Scout. Bob Hope was awarded the Silver Buffalo Award. Both enjoyed each other's company, jokes included, particularly on the golf course.

"This is a Catholic Cub Scout pack/den, so something religion-based would be fine." You mean like exorcism? Unfortunately Sister Anita wielding a ruler would not be allowed ... but I seem to remember it working on me. Yes, we expect good scout behavior from all scouts, without exception. The "reward" is the privilege of being a scout. The traffic light is too lenient for this group, I would make it harder. First infraction, timeout on bench. Next call parents for pickup. You need some reinforcements - no nonsense non-den adults. Before your next meeting, have meeting with Cubmaster and Pack Committee. Invite, no subpoena, your Cubmaster, Committee members and maybe your former den chief's (your older son's) Scoutmaster to attend your next den meeting to talk about the Scout Oath and following the rules. That Scoutmaster should be interested as to why your son dropped a leadership position. With that help. Develop a new strategy to get your scouts back in the program. That new strategy might include - more adult leaders present. - remove ringleaders - restrictions to Pack activities, e.g. cannot attend picnic unless they "green lighted" at past 4 den meetings. - splitting den - shorter meetings - adding more den chiefs - require uniform inspections as a discipline tool - more sports, they are a high activity bunch - develop a Pack Code of Conduct. Punching another scout means the scout leaves activity. He and his parents has a talk with Cubmaster and CC before he is allowed, if at all, back in the den. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

I am interested in a pointer to any official blanket-waiver info. If it is BSA policy, I would like the waiver to be prominently displayed on the bsalicensing.org homepage and in the FAQ. My local shop informed me about the problem. He had read an article about non-profit trademarks in a trade publication. It was mostly about the Red Cross but mentioned BSA, etc. Neither I nor my Council was aware of the issue.

Glad to see your "farewell" was shorter than Sinatra's..."I did it MY WAAAAY...." Welcome back.

Some questions 1. What are your den rules? You and your scouts should have developed a rules list. These rules should be prominently displayed in LARGE BOLD FONT during the den meeting. 2. When a scout is not following a rule, does den activity stop? If too much time is wasted do they miss out on the game activity? 3. Do you use a timer (some use a lighted candle, some an hourglass) to measure duration of good behavior and then say if we go 5 or 10 minutes more the next time, then we will have some reward? 4. What help do you have? Parents, den chief, denner.

The license fee is passed on to his customers, so Troop XXX would have paid the $250 + $100 job cost for a total of $350. Still less than the "licensed" shop, but why should we pay the BSA for the "privilege" of embroidering BSA on our BSA Troop XXX camp shirts? Your trademark is your corporate identity, your "good name"; you register a trademark to protect your "good name" so that others cannot malign it or profit from it. You then may or may not choose to license it use to third parties. Here, the BSA is protecting it's trademark from itself (Troop XXX). Troop XXX is using the trademark, not the local shirt shop. Well doesn't matter now, I do not use any BSA trademarks, so the BSA is SOL. Warning, I plan to trademark "SOL" also...

Here is another example of too much HASSLE in Scouting, a.k.a., Scouting Trademark Protection Gone Wild. It's all about $$$. I wanted a local shop, that I have done business for years, to embroider a dozen camp t-shirts (Made in USA) for my scouts. I supplied the shirts and the added embroidery came to just under $100. So a small order, no setup charge, and he allows me to supply the shirts, gotta love this shop. The words were simply Troop XXX BSA Camp YYYY But the shop was not licensed by the BSA (cost $250) and a "licensed" shop would not embroider any shirts that I supplied! However at the "licensed" shop, I could buy their (offshore) shirts + minimum order of 24 shirts + embroidery for a cost of $26/shirt. What a deal! A scout is thrifty, so I dropped the "BSA" over the BS. My guys had economical Made in USA t-shirts with words Troop XXX USA Camp YYYY Any patches that I design for the troop now have no BSA trademark. Our new Class B's will be silk screeened locally and will not have any BSA trademarks on them. I can understand the BSA wanting a percentage on commercial products using the BSA trademarks; I cannot understand why they want to hassle units making patches and shirts for their own use. We certainly do not make any money. Interested in reading Scouting Trademark Protection Gone Wild? http://www.bsalicensing.org/council_faq.htm Warning, I plan to trademark "BS". So that any use of "BS" will require a license from me. I expect to get rich off of "BS". You thought I was going for the "Gone Wild"?

evmori, Long ago, as a scout, my SM gave me a counselor list and told me to pick three and see who was available. He did want me to call all three BTW. As far as my SM was concerned, all mb counselors were equal so the choice was mine. Today. It does seem the SM chooses the mb counselor up front but the SM also signs the mb cards for summer camp and Merit Badge colleges, not knowing who the counselor will be. I too have been looking for a policy statement just out of curiousity.

I used the American Red Cross BAT (Basic Aid Training for Grades 2-6) for my Bears/Web I. Each student gets a workbook with first aid instruction, games, things to color. You might be able to finagle a Red Cross instructor, local fireman, or EMT to help you. Hope this helps.

I am interested in feedback from units that self-charter. In particular, info and comments about the following: unit type your reasons for self-chartering how long have you been self-chartered changes in your scout program and membership size and membership of your unit committee your council's assistance relationship with sponsor advantages/disadvantages ...whatever useful information that you could share would be appreciated. Thanks

Well there's the BSA MB policy and then there is our Council/District policy (real world) on advancement. Here the Council has said the Scoutmaster is in charge of advancement. He may go along with the loosy-goosy BSA MB policy or enforce his own more restrictive policy - his/her call. I am familiar with 3 troops Troop A: Parents cannot be mb counselors for their sons. Scoutmaster selects mb counselor for scout, sometimes he will not sign card for certain summer camp merit badges - "You do that badge with us". All Eagle-required mb's done within troop. Troop B: Parents can be a mb counselor for no more than 2 mb's for their son. Scoutmaster allows scouts to select mb counselor from list but checks parent restriction before signing card. Troop C: Parents cannot be mb counselors for Eagle-required mb's for their son. I have not seen troop advancement policies restrict other relatives - grandparents, uncles,... There's some wheelin and dealin among parents - "Sign up as an X merit badge counselor with me. You take my son and I will take yours." Make a rule and someone will find a loophole.

My point is that the BSA-Charter Organization model is not working. It needs to be reconsidered. I am proud to be with this Charter Organization and I think their concerns and perspective are well considered. Our scout program is quite excellent, but the CO has little if anything to do with that other than providing a meeting place. Our CO suggested moving to a simpler "sponsor" model like Little League (his analogy) as an improvement. Their statements I quoted are feedback from our CO. Now if you want an example of a Character Org that I want nothing to do with, consider this visit last March that my Webelos son and I had to Troop X which met at a local hall complete with a overstocked bar in the meeting area. The District Commish and Scoutmaster greeted us at the Gathering. The Scoutmaster yelled out, "Alright, line up". Scouts threw their Scout handbooks on the bar. The DC winked at me and said "Great troop. Earned the Quality Unit Award again this year!" The SM then proceeded "Scout salute..." My son and I left after the opening. I spoke to that council and I was the only one who had a problem. My son and I joined another troop in another council despite the long drive. Long ago, when I was scout, my council had a policy that NO organizations that served or sold alcohol could be charter organizations. No exceptions. Maybe it was just the time or my council, anyway years later I was very upset to see scout handbooks on a bar. Still bothers me.

This is a good example of too much HASSLE in the program. Look at your data, if 25% willingly (grudgingly) come why is that? We should be grateful for the free meeting space and drop the attitude "what's one more meeting" with our volunteers and benefactors. In our unit, we currently ask our CO to attend 10 Troop Committee meetings + 1 Saturday Recharter + 1 ECOH + various troop meetings +... Not surprisingly, our CO, a good guy, is feeling stressed. He showed us a folder with about two dozen worthy groups (most are local, non-franchised youth groups) who made a request this past August for meeting space. Not one of these groups asked that the church "sign" a contract, "micromanage" their group, "police" any program, "select" any leaders, or even attend any meetings though the welcome to the church was there. He asked, "Isn't a free meeting place with storage enough support? Why can't your troop and district manage themselves, afterall I see the troop earned the Quality Award again?" The BSA-Character Organization model needs a reality check. I worry if the Charter contract is made more demanding, my unit might disappear. Less HASSLE please. KISKIF for all.

SMORES. Actually smores are considered a requirement by Cub Scouts. Launching bottle rockets is cool too.

I would wager that T164Scouter has forgotten more about scouting than the WB21 staff knows and that T164Scouter has not forgotten much.

Belayer_StLouis is correct. I did some research http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html http://www.flagsbay.com/flag/brief-history-of-the-united-states-flag-code/ The statute numbering seems to have changed some but here is the summary Congress passed Public Law 77-826; chapter 806 the U.S. Flag in Dec 22, 1942. It has be amended three times since. In 1976, Section 176 which deals with Respect to Flag, part (j) was amended. "However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart." So prior to 1976, the US flag could not have been worn on a scout uniform. Why did this change? Not sure - draw attention to bicentennial year, U.S. astronaut spacesuits had a U.S. flag, raise spirits after Vietnam, Watergate, Gas Shortage, ??? Now why the flag patch is not placed on the left sleeve so as to be closer to the heart, I do not know either. Xyzzy Sounds like you are teaching your son to be leader. If we didn't question the rules, we would all still be doing the Bellamy salute for the Pledge of Allegiance. Oh, thank you service and the comfort that you gave to our servicemen and their families, that's a hard detail. You had some other points/questions, good ones: 1. Wearing the flag is disrespectful. I agree, what a flood gate that change opened. I wonder if one wears a scout uniform at night, does one shine a light on one's right sleeve? 2. Maybe family, God, country? 3. How many countries wear their flag? I suggest we send you to the next World Jamboree in Sweden and report back. I do know that Australia wears a flag patch not on their sleeve but next to the purple World Brotherhood patch above the left pocket (close to heart). I think France does not wear a flag patch but a country symbol patch. Sorry not much help on that one. 4. Why did BSA change? 5. An uncluttered uniform - you would have liked the 50's and 60's, well at least the uniform we wore back then. Our uniform was even "green" and isn't that a good thing these days. We repeat the Pledge and Scout Oath/Law ad infinitum but marriage vows once. Repetition is a teaching device, maybe it will improve the chances that they think about the words. I ask my scouts to say the words slowly in the hopes that they will consider the words. Maybe. Teaching your son to ask questions is good, teaching him to find answers is better. "That is not "blindly going along" with something. That is following the rules of the organization you belong to." Was that line from Dr. Strangelove? My two cents

"Could a patrol forget to showup with food on your campouts?" So far no patrol has forgotten their food or water, now tent poles, stove fuel, grills, and lanterns are often forgotten - time to improvise. We ask our SPL have patrols completed their checklists (this task is on his checklist). If yes, off we go. After the campout, we debrief and often ask "Was that on your checklist?" "Did you use checklists"...fun Helicopter ASM's? Hmmm, when there is a safety issue I guess you can say we are hovering above. I don't mean to infer that our approach is perfect, but a small group 2-4 adults (at most one adult newby) on scout outings works better for our unit. Even experienced adults learn new things on outings, so the notion of "training adults" seems odd to me. Our focus is on the scouts, but we all learn from each other.

My unit is fortunate to have a group of competent, experienced ASMs. Some trained at US Armed Forces, AMC, NOLS, Outward Bound, BSA... but more importantly, they have allot of "field" experience. Also, being a diverse group, our scouts learn different camping styles taught by different adults. We have never cancelled an outing for lack of adults. When an activity is planned, it is designated a scout outing or family outing. For example, the first campout for new scouts and an overnighter on the USS New Jersey would be family outings. On family outings, adults form cooking groups or not. So for a scout outing, when the permission slips are returned, we look at the headcount and the activity plan (from PLC) a set the number of ASM's needed. So for the usual campout with 20 scouts, that number would usually be 3 or 4. Additional adults are discouraged, too much of a distraction. We want just the minimum, necessary adult oversight; scouts need to feel that they are in charge. Before campout, ASM's approve patrol food menus. So no poptarts or Captain Crunch. Each meal has more than one entree. SPL checks menu, but ASM's sanity check for food allergies and other diet restrictions at that time. Before heading-out, we verify that patrols kept to plan and safely packaged food for campout. On these outings, our #1 job as always is safety. Scout-run, but ASM's are the last line of defense that things were done safely. Scout parents have entrusted us with their sons. We cannot be distracted by helicopter parents, a dad who decided to bring a compound bow, a mom with 4 dozen cupcakes, adults who want to "vacation",... We ASM's check that scouts are properly dressed and check for exposure. We watch that fire, stoves and axes are safely handled, prevent rough-housing, counsel scouts feeling homesick, make sure meds are taken. And more... We intervene to correct problems as needed, usually by just talking with SPL or,if urgent, directly. We are also there to further instruct and sign off requirements. We are not cooking meals, we are listening as Tenderfoot Charlie Brown explains how he is cooking his patrol dinner where we are gueste. Maybe some entrees are overcooked, but this is scouting. If the PL and SPL forget, we make sure to remind them that scouts wash their hands, say grace, that everyone eats, and oversee cleanup. Falling asleep when I return home is not a problem. Our ASM's are not a "patrol", we are ASM's. We carry different gear than patrols. We carry the emergency gear - radios, cellphone, extensive first aid kit with med forms and scout meds, extra water,socks, gloves. We carry a personal stove and survival gear but not another patrol cook kit. On a campout,I will make my own coffee. Experience has taught me that wisdom.