RememberSchiff

I found this but I don't know which "webinar" it is. 

At the end, the presenter says to the audience "There is no special training. This is Cub Scout Leader Training." 

Good luck with your new challenge. Hope it is fun for all.

This is surprising.

I would not guess that the BSA is an international brand. How much BSA-branded product is sold outside of the US?

$75million sales with say 2million customers seems small taters.

Am I missing something?

@cyphertext welcome to scouter.com

Stosh you like to be contrary so Syracuse may be your town, as I recall, the traffic lights are upside down. Green is on top, red on the bottom. 

16 hours ago, scoutldr said:

Besides $300 for a wooden box, did anyone notice the rank badges are out of order?

Not me. Good eye. 

I wonder if the BSA License Lawyers will defend the brand and send notice.

Should there be a recall? 

As you may recall some of my earlier posts, at one time we had 20+ adult leaders in a troop of 36-40 scouts. It didn't work,  it was an adult-run outing club.  Good riddance.  What we have now does work, and yes I like a working scout-run troop.

I gave my opinion about the risk regarding a troop mechanic,  your attorney or attorneys feel different.

Anyway, we agree to disagree, meaning each side has stated their positions and they are resolute. There is no need for further bickering, er argument I mean.

As presented, your system works for you while ours, a different system, works for us.

We agree to disagree on approaches.

We agree to disagree.

We obviously prefer a small pool of trained BSA leaders and have found it is more conducive to a scout-run unit. Works for us.

I will stick with my mechanic and his partner. I know him and trust him to protect my family as he has for 20+ years.  I think your troop has good intentions but is greatly increasing your liability risk down the road, so to speak.

Just now, Col. Flagg said:

 

Exactly why my unit requires ALL parents to register. We also do NOT allow any un-registered siblings to attend camp outs. At the end of the day the CO, SM and CMT Chair are the ones with their butts on the line if something goes wrong. We make sure (by checking paperwork) that all cars are properly insured and inspected too. We have a dad who owns a garage and he does a $30 inspection on any cars that are going to carry troop kids. The troop reimburses for gas. ALL adults are YPT trained and even CRP/AED (which we have two portable ones).  We've had these policies in place for many years now. We get a few folks that complain...maybe one a year. And yes, we DO have a family camp out once a year just to meet the requests from those who want such a thing.

Glad it works for you, that would be the last thing we would do.

Our SM carefully "encourages" only parents who understand the program (specifically this is not Cub Scouts and scout-run) to register as an adult leader.  Our ASM, who is Outing Coordinator,  selects from that pool, sort of like the start of the old Mission Impossible tv show.

Just anybody and everybody registering as an adult leader without any knowledge of Boy Scouts is asking for trouble. Can an adult still register without taking YPT? Yes, how dumb is that. Oh , within 30 days, you are supposed to  .... Train, test and pass, then register.  Sort of like Show, Tell, Do.

If the troop said that I  had to go to another mechanic to inspect my family car or pay $30 when the state charges $7,  bye. 

IMHO, families will view their BSA unit as "tour guides" and hold the BSA and unit responsible for anything that goes wrong on any outdoor activities.

Perhaps when a scout activity transforms into a family activity, the SM pulls the plug on any troop/BSA involvement. No troop gear used, no discussion/planning of Family Outing on troop time,  not on the troop calendar, no advancement, ....

For a scout activity, the SM/TC needs to manage the adult herd to only those needed for supervision and logistics, similar to the way schools chaperone class trips.

My $0.02

@lupacexiWelcome to scouter.com . As @Eagle1993 reminded, please stay on Scouting topics .

The Sioux Council of Boy Scouts should have information regarding scout troops in Sious Falls.

https://www.facebook.com/siouxbsa/

4 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Well I have told the story at a campfire with some older scouts but I get you. Moving on.

Yes let's move back to the topic -  scouter frustration with Scouting to the point where "giving up" is being discussed.

Carbon paper was a big improvement over using Silly Putty to transfer print. Carbon paper was legal size 8 1/2 x 11 but it could not do color transfer like Silly Putty.

In high school, mimeograph machines smelled liked a "surprise" quiz was coming that day.

@Tampa Turtle, whoa I wasn't expecting that. Please keep your stories within a G rating. Thanks.

cc: @NJCubScouter  @Sentinel947  @LeCastor

18 hours ago, qwazse said:

... but isn't that the point? Remove council or district approval and the need for duplication plummets.

It doesn't need to be a digital nightmare. Accept the proposal in the form of a plain text E-mail addressing points on an outline ... with the scout attesting that he has collected the requisite signatures. Otherwise, request a hardcopy be mailed to the district or handed to the district advancement chair at round-table.

Thumbs way up!

Back in the day (here he goes again), I typed my Eagle project report using two sheets of carbon paper, so there were only three hard copies - mine,  my troop EBOR, district EBOR.  At the EBOR, the report was handed over and passed around the table with questions asked. The district EBOR received a letter from the CO, that the project had been completed.  The troop EBOR already knew the project had been completed. Simple, not a government project. No Eagle advisor needed beyond my SM saying "Get it done" and it was my responsibility to "get it done".

Should National or Council archive Eagle Project workbooks?  I can't see the need.

Update: 1/11/2018

Susan Erickson, an attorney who was hired by the electric cooperative to coordinate communication about the accident stated "I know the Upshur Rural Electric Cooperative is working with (the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, the Lake O' the Pines manager) to make some decisions," she said. "It's premature to issue a statement at this time as to what will be done, but I do know that is an issue under review and the appropriate experts have been engaged to look into what should be done in coordination with federal and state agencies."

...

A letter from the (Texas) attorney general's office indicates the boys' families or their representatives could receive the report. Each parent would get information about his or her child but would not get information about the other children.

The decision is related to a section of the family code and allegations of "alleged or suspected abuse or neglect." ( As previously noted, the report will not be released to the public. -RS)

A spokesman for Texas Parks & Wildlife said this week that no criminal charges would be filed in the incident, based on the recommendation of Marion County District Attorney Angela Smoak. Smoak did not return a phone call seeking comment.

"TPWD has made no specific claim of abuse or neglect of a child. The agency did, however, request and has subsequently received an opinion from the (attorney general) that confirms that ... records should be held confidential due to its definition of 'abuse' a 'physical injury that results in substantial harm to a child,' " said Steve Lightfoot, press office manager for Parks & Wildlife.

The East Texas Area Council of Boy Scouts previously said the catamaran the boys were sailing had a mast that stood about 26.5 feet. Lightfoot said this week that the department's investigation determined the Alley Creek transmission line involved in the accident was 26.8 feet high at its lowest point.

Rules adopted in 1997 for electric power supply lines and communication lines over reservoirs managed by the Corps of Engineers state that lines must have a minimum vertical clearance of 52 feet where sailboats are commonly operated.

However, the regulation only goes into effect if existing lines are being replaced or new ones built. The age of the power line involved in the accident has not been publicly disclosed.

Lightfoot said the Corps of Engineers placed buoys on the water marking the power lines shortly after the incident.

Erickson said there's no timeline for when the investigation would be completed and any changes enacted.

"I think the meetings have been multiphased with various agencies," she said, adding that Upshur Rural Electric would follow any recommendations made as a result.

https://www.news-journal.com/news/2018/jan/11/upshur-rural-co-op-mulls-lake-o-pines-power-line-c/

Ok then,  please stay on topic -  scouter frustration with Scouting to the point where "giving up" is being considered

cc:   @NJCubScouter , @Sentinel947 , @LeCastor

@BrerFox welcome to scouter.com

Hard to know with her father. He may be quoted out of context, frustrated with the response or lack of response from National,  being a Dad, or being a jerk.

Ok then. We agree to disagree. 

16 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Well, here is the comparison.

Orginal project requirement (1965):

While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and carry out a service project helpful to your church or synagogue, school, or community.

Current requirement:

While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. (The project must benefit an organization other than the Boy Scouts of America.) A project proposal must be approved by the organization benefiting from the effort, your Scoutmaster and unit committee, and the council or district before you start. You must use the Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook, BSA publication No. 512-927, in meeting this requirement. (To learn more about the Eagle Scout service project, see the Guide to Advancement, topics 9.0.2.0 through 9.0.2.16.)

Interestingly, the basic statement of the actual project itself (in the first sentence of the current requirement, as clarified in the parenthetical that follows) is really very similar to what the entire requirement was in 1965. 

 

In 1965, the Eagle project could be a DIY service project for others as mine was.

Now there is the required leadership of others and the larger project management that goes with it, well that is the intent anyway.

Both approaches have value.

Agree with @qwazse, drop the pdf and while we are at it,  give scouts the option to submit their own free-form project report.

Update:

Sacramento  scout Andrew Evans was honored with the BSA Medal Of Honor with Crossed Palms for saving lives at Philmont in 2015 ,

Andrew prevented two tents from being swept away during a flash flood in New Mexico. He was honored by the Sacramento city council and given the highest award in Scouting. Source link below includes video. This report did not mention Philmont by name.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/3790237-sacramento-teen-honored-for-saving-the-lives-of-3-boy-scouts/

From KDAT.com back in Oct, 2015

http://www.koat.com/article/new-details-released-after-fatal-philmont-scout-ranch-flood/5067176

The group was on a 12-day trek across the Philmont Scout Ranch in northern New Mexico when a flash flood overran its camp. Officials said eight of the trek participants were Boy Scouts. One adult ranger and three crew leaders were with the group.

"You heard trees snapping in the background and then we got hit with a wall of water," Scout Andrew Evans said.

Investigators said the floodwater swept four Scouts away from the campsite, which was situated about 18-20 feet above a small creek that runs through the bottom of Ponil Canyon.

The creek is normally 2-3 feet wide and 10-12
inches deep. When the flash flood occurred, water surged through the canyon approximately 20-23 feet deep and about 100 yards wide.

Some of the Scouts were able to get out, but the water was rising quickly.

"Enough to where you wanted to get out of there as quick as you can," Evans said.

The wall of water eventually claimed the life of Alden Brock, 13.

"I was in the mud searching, calling his name out," said Ben Heninburg, an adult on the trip.

The 13-year-old's body was found a mile away.

Law enforcement officials were stunned by the aftermath. The area where the teen's body was found got nearly 7 feet of water.

His tentmate, Logan Reed, told police that the two couldn't open the zipper of their tent. Reed found a hole in the tent, but by the time he tried to tell Brock, it was too late.