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Just because tort is not kind to successful venturing, the objective definition of the term will remain unchanged. There are some young adults willing to wait until they are 21 to fulfill that vision. I wasn't one of them. Defensive venturing = narrowed niche. One other factor: many older youth are paying for their own activities. Registration now costs roughly the equivalent of three large pizzas.

Successful venturing? Let me describe that. It occurrs when: Youth fulfill the pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with their mates. The tour plan debacle is a perfect counter-example. When they worked best was when they were paper/pdf, and I could give them to my crew president or troop SPL and say, for a given activity, "Fill this out and bring it to me for review and signature." Not even a few years into this routine the TP went online and only unit leaders could access it! What's the point of making me check all of those boxes? I know what it takes to scout safely! It's my youth who need to put things together. They need to call council HQ and ask for facility availability. They need to come up with a good plan and make it work and invite me to show up (preferably in time for dinner). You don't have to be in venturing to have experienced BSA's profound mistrust of local youth leadership. We cite examples constantly. Undarstand that each restriction is an insult makes the program less palatable for older youth. Successful venturing? It is when some 18 year olds come up with a plan for the weekend that is so good that you can throw them the keys to the van and say, "Check fluids before you go. Come back with a full tank. You have my number." Successful venturing? That's precisely what BSA has banned. Venturers now succeed when they embrace life outside of BSA's auspices.

@ParkMan, I love my execs too, but when they waste time at roundtable declaring absurdities like we should file a tour permit for every time a unit meets beyon the walls of its CO, and force me to waste my time countering (for the sake of all scouters in the room) that there was no way I was filing TP for every time my crew meets at a coffee shop, I conclude that they are here to preserve their jobs by parroting their superiors not support my efforts. Volunteers aren't dropping the ball, the ball is inflated to the point that volunteers can't get their arms around it. The TP craze has gone by the wayside ... but it was one example of how BSA wasted all of our time over the past decade.

I witnessed the rise and fall of venturing in our council. Observations: The growth of crews was greatly inflated by camp-staff crews, clubs that signed their kids on to BSA for cheap liability insurance, and DEs who thought it was okay to keep these crews on the council roster. In other words, they invested in finding sponsors of crews in areas where no youth were interested in the program. Being assigned executives who had zero training in the program didn't help. It didn't necessarily hurt, because some of the young venturing officers got to work with learn-as-you-go executives. But in terms of knowing what it really took to launch crews, and how quickly a pro needed to respond to opportunities to promote to potential COs, I saw some well-meaning, yet clueless execs. Silver awardees were never invited to NESA dinners. I cannot emphasize this enough. Their medal had an eagle on the device, yet there were scouters who did not believe that they should be recognized on the same level of Eagle Scouts. This wasn't a local phenomenon. Nor was it entirely on the Boy Scout side. The failed launch of Corps of Discovery as Venturing's honor society is indicative of venturers attempts at something separate but equal to O/A or NESA. Advancement means nothing. Recognition does. Just ask the older girls in your troop how they'd feel if they earned Eagle but nobody but you and a few strangers in the Internet knew what that means. The council newspaper stopped publishing reports from lodge Chiefs and venturing officers. The purpose of that rag became for execs to pitch camps. Nobody knew who the President of our VOA was. Officers weren't recognized at council camporees. Event planners did not even consult the venturing committee, but picked the nearest kid in a green shirt to represent the program using a canned script. So much for youth leadership. The current YP regs became crushing. There are very few youth who want adults minding their every move. The thought that a female adult has to be in the room for a crew of mixed sexes to hold a meeting is patently insulting. Heck, the need for any 21+ year-old to be present for a crew of 18 year olds to do any legal activity is absurd. It's a rare community that can field all of the adults needed to run a crew. I found that parents of older youth are overwhelmed, this decade more so than in previous years. Many are working double shifts to reduce their kids college debt. I quickly learned that I and other adults like me are very odd ducks. Apathy regarding recreational drugs and marijuana has not helped. So that's my short list. On the bright side there are a core group of youth in rural PA who still find venturing to be a rewarding program.

@CChairmanOfTroop, welcome to the forums. Basically, you and your COR call the shots. If the SM can't tell you how this guy is assisting him, he can't be in the position (assist is literally on the patch). You need to be clear that he has to do a better job. If he doesn't want to change, that's okay, he can still be a scout parent or counsel a badge. If the SM says he's doing one thing right, recognize that and say your asking for him to do a couple more things right. Not the least of which would be learn those knots!

My bet is that coming off of World Jambo, and other scouts "getting back" their missed year at Philmont, and membership collapse, you won't have to worry about full contingents. But, it's definitely worth it to start paying early and spreading the costs across as many months as they allow.

Can a BoR reject a scout if he/she doesn't have Scoutbook? Say, if no internet is available? We don't waste a scout's time waiting for extra stars to align. Have a quorum? Will review! Our MCs have gotten away from signing anything but the handbook and checking off SB. So that handbook is becoming pretty essential. I guess if we had to we'd sign a label for the scout to put in his book. I think BSA's point is that going forward, all councils will look to SB for accountability with advancement, and they want units to participate in that process. SB provides a lot of carrots for the unit to do so. With 20/20 hindsight, I think blue cards should have been used for rank advancement as well as MBs. (Okay, maybe a different color for oval awards, but same dimensions and layout.) The SM or designee would be the "counselor" and would review the scout's handbook for the requisite signatures, discuss any outstanding issues with the scout -- perhaps noting partial completions as usual, and ultimately approve and sign. The scout could then take that card to a BoR, and the chair would approve and sign the applicant's portion. Had this been the procedure for both ovals and circles, we would have had more uniformity. One could then capitalize on that uniformity to use 21st century tech to take photos of the cards, submit them, interpret the image and save relevant fields to a database, and get back those spiffy online reports for cross-checks. Scouts ... Love ... Paperwork. (More or less.) I think we are uniquely obsessed about this sort of thing. Accountability is a big real-world deal in this country, so it may reflect a bit of 21st century citizenship. However, I am seeing this in other youth activites. E.g., data-driven sports ... our soccer team's statistician had some serious responsibilities that the coaches valued. Of course, the big goal there is to not "earn" yellow/red cards.

Yep. The bright yellow rounded-rectangle. Ft. A.P. Hill Virginia, 1981. I'm sure you've had a few scouts go to other national (maybe even world) jamborees, but only that one made it to your flag. Ask around, I bet someone knows the story. In general, with any piece like this, you want as full a story as possible. For example, if someone has rosters of participants, list them on acid-free paper and put it in an envelope behind the display or frame the list. Heck, if you have complete troop rosters, list every member and footnote as to which events big events they attended. Details like that really add value to the item -- not monetary value -- but historical value ... to make sure that the display stays wherever it's mounted.

I think we're looking at two sides of the same coin. Consider the blue card, the unit leader's signature on the middle portion of the card ("APPLICANT's RECORD") is basically a declaration to the effect that the SM has received the unit portion of the card, will make sure the badge becomes part of the unit records, and will order that badge (and certificate) for the scout. I don't see that changing anytime soon. I wager that the "checked and recorded" (by whoever in the unit does checking and recording and, until a few years ago, filling out the BSA Advancement Report) will eventually be replaced by "logged online". When I took Son #1's Eagle app to HQ, there was a discrepancy on an MB award date (in addition to the one issue that motivated my first post on scouter.com). A date was off in their system. They had to walk back to the file room, pull his advancement reports and find the source discrepancy (I can't remember if it was on the report or only in their database). They then reconciled everything to what was written on the blue card. So, I think when BSA says "official record", they are referring to that BSA Advancement Report. Eagle applications and other things will now be checked against what was recorded in Scoutbook, not against the hundreds of sheets of paper that was sent to council from a unit over the scout's tenure. What is especially nice about this, is the level of transparency to the scout. He/she now can compare cards and handbook with the official record at any time (well, any time with a device and internet, which these days are far closer than council HQ)! This means that discrepancies in award dates, etc ... are likely to be resolved long before the scout turns in his/her Eagle application (which, hopefully will be pre-printed). Furthermore, that transparency extends to scouters, the last line on the unit portion of the blue card, "certificate and badge presented" is intrinsic to Scoutbook. I think that line will disappear, because most courts of honor are held near where someone with authority can check those boxes on the Needs Awarding Report. Any time the unit advancement chair wants to audit the record, he/she can simply take the stack of blue cards, generate that list online, and check there that all other steps were followed. But, as I mention above, if there's a discrepancy between the handbook and Scoutbook, we're aligning everything to the handbook. The tail doesn't wag the dog. Back to @Treflienne. I think the right thing to do with erroneous certificates (if a troop issues one) is to issue a new one with corrected info. That's because it demonstrates to the scout that people make mistakes, and they can make some very official ones. A tenderfoot who knows that you'll correct a certificate will one day be a life scout who knows that you'll reconcile the dates between her blue card and Scoutbook. That could be the difference between a scout who gives up on the trail to Eagle and one who stays in the good race.

It makes sense to that a council would consider SB to be the official unit record of advancement. That sure beats my SM's shoe box. Although he managed it well, my brother wasn't so lucky with his SM. But, units fail. Electronic records get lost. The official scout record remains the handbook. Unless you find it to not be so with a quote from the Guide to Advancement.

I am last to bed,and that happens about two hours after my last drink of water. I like star gazing, weather watching, and listening for wildlife. On many trips, I won't even set up my tent or hammock until I'm sure I need it. I am also often first up. Sooo I count on those afternoon naps. I found camping with the pack to be especially hard, as we are all just beginning to get used to each other. I will say this: everything is easier with a buddy. So, if you find someone who will share the load with chores and such, especially who you don't have to tell what to do, treat them like gold. Oh, your pack parents better darn well be treating you like gold. You're giving them 5 star service!

I saw the one national jamboree patch, from '81, and was just curious. That was the year that I went.

Agree with @scoutldr . The same folks who restore bridal gowns should know how to clean this. If you all have a wall, mount it. When you do, use a backing that highlights the faded colors (i.e. red underneath red white underneath white). Some preservationists hire artists who can re-dye the color with a brush. I think that would be overkill. If you want to fold it into a small box, you would probably need to remove the patches, but I can't imagine it would look good at all. Question: did your entire troop go to the National Jamboree? Or did one or two scouts/adults from your troop go, and someone gave the troop their patch?

My flip phone would beg to differ! So would my iPad 2.0. So would the wilderness where there is no reception! There's lots of places where the handbook works and Scoutbook doesn't. (There are also places where both work poorly, e.g. in aquatics areas, at pen-freezing temps, and under the usual torrential downpours that involve camping with me. But, in most of those scenarios, it's easier to set up shelter where a HB works and SP doesn't.) It's far more reliable for a scout to get the sign-off in the book, then later touch base with the SM/ASM whose device can check it off. We still use the HB as primary. Even the BSA uniform inspection sheet mention's it, and not SB, on uniform inspection. Although, if one of our scouts isn't wearing his handbook, there's no way that the SPL's docking them 15 points on uniform inspection.

Two years later https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/02/Report-to-the-Nation-2019-FINAL.pdf

Anybody else have a vintage BSA keepsake box? I used this hunk of plastic for my (no idea where I got it from), then handed it down to sons #1 and #2 (who for the life of them couldn't keep anything in one place).

Still too complex. I can name organizations that have each of these or two or three in combination. In this al la carte society, wasting your 15 seconds on things parents can "purchase" singly for their kids gets you nowhere. My "fast pitch" based on integrating our previous discussions: We guide young people to be truly epic citizens by inculcating a vision of the pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with their mates. In inspiring them thusly, they learn to love one another in their community, country, and the world, to cherish our land, and to forestall death. 10 seconds, I timed it. Or just stick with the congressional charter [with one small insertion] We promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys [and like-minded girls] to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. 15 seconds Maybe too short and pithy the aims: Character, Fitness, Citizenship, and (new since 2018) Leadership "Subject-matter" areas are ancillary. We have 136 of them that scouts unlock as they mature from Cubs, to Scouts, and beyond to Venturers, Sea Scouts, and Exploring. The crux of the matter: can national keep creditors at bay while maintaining these aims? Can anyone maintain youth-facing aims without the threat of litigation over the misdeeds of others?

I guess the point is to keep the certificate of your current rank in your wallet along with your membership card. Just in case you're out of uniform and need to vouchsafe your rank. What is special about the pocket certificates, IMHO, are the signatures. They don't prove anything beyond what's already in the scout's book and unit records. Years later, however, pulling those cards out of the shoebox in the attic and seeing the signatures of SPL, SM, and CC while your kids fiddle with your sash and loose patches can bring back fond memories. They might remind you of a story or two that you could tell. Or, maybe, your kids might know that SPL's kids or the SM and CC's grandkids. A few more cards in the stack of blue cards ... no harm in that.

This has been asked before, and the answer is yes.

Sorry, something is funky with "return" today. So this is gonna be one paragraph. The cases so far tell us a lot about how COVID-19 spreads: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html In other words, long before you shake hands -- or touch in any way -- you will have picked up viruses from a contagious person. If you all abstain from handshaking, but don't wash, you're transmitting the virus. If the infected person is wearing a mask, and washes thoroughly, and you wash thoroughly, you're not transmitting the virus. (Although, mileage may vary, this is the general pattern.) I also emphasized with the boys that this is not about stopping the infections. (That was tried, it failed.) This is about slowing the spread so hospitals aren't inundated with folks needing respirators all at once. We're all getting it, but if your grandpa needs to go to the hospital this week, and my mother-in-law the week after, we might just manage cut the mortality in half or more.

@yknot

So here's the thing about handshakes and respiratory viruses: handshakes represent a very narrow means of transmission. You all could avoid shaking hands and come through the same door that someone breathed a million viruses over. If on the other hand, you wash correctly frequently, especially before touching your face, you will have ripped from their lipid envelopes every viral blueprint that you picked up from every table door knob, table top, and parachord that you just touched -- rendering them desiccated and completely uninteresting to your cells. FWIW, I'm going nuts counting the number time I touch my face in an hour. Time to start singing that Happy Birthday dirge.

My friend helps CDC with picking flu vaccines -- or as I like to call his job, the highest stakes gamble on the planet. He gives a whole new meaning to men's prayer group. We're rethinking everything from mission trips to communion. He reached out to a Korean colleague. The reply: "Can't talk now. In a pandemic. Please pray." Anyhow, he sent me this link to the WHO's hand-washing specification: https://www.who.int/gpsc/tools/GPSC-HandRub-Wash.pdf Last night the SPL was quizzing a few boys on 1st class skills. I dropped this in his lap and threw out a few questions in the mix. Which is more effective sanitizer or soap? How long with sanitizer? How long soap? I then told them the CDCs suggestion to scrub as long as it takes to sing two rounds of "Happy Birthday".

Yes, I was the one who suggested the adults set up at camp. I like your plan. It depends on your PLs and their assistants (in this case, the assistant may not be the APL, but the patrol's best navigator). You adults could add an SAR component to it. You could "dead drop" a package of each patrol's favorite treats, mark the waypoint on a GPS, and as a patrol approaches a drop, radio in the coordinates. Our summer camp is similarly situated, and scouts can sign out with a buddy (or five or six) to go on that 4-5 mile hike. It's a mix of road and trail. It has some interesting stopping points and I sometimes challenge them to get a picture of something along the way. From time to time I and another adult leader have shadowed buddies/patrols/troops on that hike. Troops are the worst regarding discipline. Buddies are the best. Patrols ... somewhere in-between. Although, I guess if we sent out 20 buddy pairs a day, we'd find one of them would get into some shenanigans.

Depending on the location of the 20 mile hike, I would argue that adults don't have to be walking with them the whole time. Drop them off on one side of town, pick them up on the other. Or set up your hammock or camp chair at the nexus of a couple of loop trails ... maybe near your favorite fishing hole. (We are quickly approaching opening day in most states.) They can check-in from time to time. If they are aiming for an extended hike in a wilderness area, then you might need to consider continuous adult supervision. But, it is very hard to cover 20 wilderness miles in a day ... even over existing trails.