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I haven't nailed down the journal or volume, but here we discussed it four years ago: And landed on a 1964/65 cut-off.

Thanks. You need to, however, reference oft-forgot starting points for each policy, just like you did when you referenced the improved scouting program. Hunt down the years for: The declaration of religious principle. The policy on homosexual adults (specifically, scoutmasters). The (different) policy on homosexual youth. The first SM who wanted to confer Eagle Scout to a female. The important thing to note here, is that these were not generated in a vacuum. Somebody in one part of the country didn't like how somebody in another part of the country was proceeding, and the picked BSA for a cudgel.

Dude, read the "Scouts in Action" pieces in Boy's Life. Those are just random samples from the numerous awards of merit because scouts retained their skills well enough to save someone's life. It's not about the scout forestalling his/her death (although that effect is possible), it's about him/her forestalling our death from a panoply of causes ... drownings, burns, infections from knife wounds, insect-borne parasites, venomous bites, food-borne illness, mishandled firearms. @yknot, there's an article in either Scouting or Boys Life sometime in the 60's that codified the change in policy. We referenced it her once-upon-a-topic. If I stumble across it, I'll let you know.

@ParkMan why would I start a 15 year old at Star who hasn’t mastered 1st Class? If a 12 year old masters 1st Class, why withhold work on Star? But this is the critical distinction — the switch, if you will — that distinguishes BSA’s ascending first 6 decades from the declining latter 6: For a scout, what is rank (or as GBB put it in his handbook, a progress award)? a set of skills that enables one to overcome the challenges of life and even forestall death, no matter when and at what station one masters those skills. a developmental track for teens and pre-teens to complement what they are not getting taught in school? If the former, then it might be important for an ASM or SM age 19 or 59 to secure that foundation. If the latter, then that person-of-a-certain-age should leave the finger paints on grandma’s fridge and go tag a trestle. My point is, the more we insist that the trail to Eagle is a “youth thing”, the more we will delude ourselves by creating requirements for the sake of youth development (EDGE, bean counting nights and service hours, bookwork MBs etc ...) that youth will more than happily abandon in order to fulfill a vision of the pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with your mates. I see no point in extending the age limit for that youth/adult boundary. Youth may be PLs etc..; adults, SMs etc ... there is something to be said for years of life lived defining your roles. And we now know that power relationships conferred by age can be greatly abused. So on that level, we are stuck with what we have.

Of course. When, as I mentioned earlier, scouting is turned into child’s play rather than being recognized as a challenge — even for most adults — then when one becomes an adult one stops “play scouting” and leaves the BSA for real adventure. The age that one makes that transition has been pushed younger, 14 year olds are patrolling the land happily without the auspices of BSA. Secondly, if while growing up, you abandoned religion, you were officially unwelcome in BSA. Or, if you found yourself to be homosexual adult, you were officially unwelcome. Then, we were told to unwelcome homosexual youth. That restrictive sexual ethic attracted some adults, but put off others. Hewing to a more permissive sexual ethic has not reversed that.

@gpurlee, have you read Rothschild’s piece on Lowe and (indirectly) West and the proprietorship of “scout”? It does a lot to set the stage for some of the 21st century struggles. Although, I think there were two related shifts starting in the 60s that also have a cumulative impact on where we are today: The ageist policy restricting rank advancement to under age 18 because “it’s a boys award.” The rise of “bookwork” badges to the required list for Eagle and the removal of observe/report badges, like Bird Study, from that list. The former shift basically assumes that green leaders would be better served through training provided by their councils instead of their units. It also removed an incentive for star and life scouts to serving as an SM/ASM in a troop to complete their rank advancement. The latter shift assumed that BSA would make up for something that’s not being taught in schools (e.g. citizenship, family life) ... giving the impression that it could be used as an agent of cultural change. Interestingly, things like wildlife observation are the only practical way that a person can witness global warming without being dependent on media. In any case, scouting was seen as a way to push back against secularism and ultimately to promote a restrictive sexual ethic.

Is it just me, or does this post seem a little buggy?

Fred, it’s the small troop problem. Either, the patrol runs its course and then disbands. Or, it relocates under a CO that will continue to promote it well beyond the founders’ tenure.

How many youth and young adults have you worked with?

Taken to its extreme, it will not on disassemble youth organizations, but the institution of family itself.

More importantly, since this initiative is overtly a response to BLM, youth membership quotas do not directly address misplaced attitudes of supremacy in America’s youth. To do that, one should provide youth with mentors from minorities and the opposite sex. Not because someone from that group would be particularly well versed in the subject. (They may not even hew to the expected rhetoric.) Rather, by having youth from majorities mentored on occasion by people of integrity from minority groups, those youth gain memories of positive interactions that may offset seeds of bias that would otherwise be planted.

(My apologies to readers for the cross-post.) None of these are changes that will refocus councils and the communities in them toward better scouting. The first flaw of modern councils is that they are identified as an administrative unit of BSA, not an integral part of any community within their bounds. To correct this, a roll back is needed: the council shoulder patch should be a red strip with white lettering. the council name should be that of the largest city in its area. Laurel Highlands would be renamed Pittsburgh council. If folks in Davis, WV are bothered about being in Pittsburgh council, they can mobilize their community and form a self-sustaining council. I made a similar proposal here in the Establish minimum standards thread. There, I allowed that patches with flags/coats of arms could go accompany the council strip. Not sure if that adds clutter. But, the point is that councils need to be anchored to communities to flourish.

Oops. I meant to reply in @CynicalScouter's more recent topic. I'll re-reply there. I had already made a similar comment in this thread earlier. I'll reference it in the other topic.

None of these are changes that will refocus councils and the communities in them toward better scouting. The first flaw of modern councils is that they are identified as an administrative unit of BSA, not an integral part of any community within their bounds. To correct this, a roll back is needed: the council shoulder patch should be a red strip with white lettering. the council name should be that of the largest city in its area. Laurel Highlands would be renamed Pittsburgh council. If folks in Davis, WV are bothered about being in Pittsburgh council, they can mobilize their community and form a self-sustaining council.

Camp Conestoga of Westmoreland-Fayette council provided an excellent week of well-staffed camp. I'd like to say "Wish you were here." But, the fact is that it is in the public's interest that local camps open throughout the country with layered non-pharmaceutical interventions. (Some of those layers ain't cheap. The staff did some serious sterilizing of shower houses.) Some campers came from a long ways away to attend our week (demand outstripped supply). That comes with its own risks. The Georgia study has made me look more askew at cabins than I ever have before. Even cabins with a small number of residents saw transmissions. But, there was a lot going on in the state at large that increased the likelihood of childhood transmission. A comparison group of tent camps would have been interesting. Tents have more air circulation than cabins ... but they also have fewer windows. Which means that kids aren't spending as much time in them. During slack time our scouts were as much, if not more. around a campfire, at their patrol tables, or in their hammocks than in their tents.

From current cub-specific requirements (https://i9peu1ikn3a16vg4e45rqi17-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/510-322_WEB.pdf😞 Later in the document it makes clear that a range is to be opened by a "qualified BSA-certified range master." There's probably fine print elsewhere about what would lead BSA to certify that person, but the cub-specific document makes clear that it would be only one person.

LoL, my buddy (along with four generations of clinical epidemiologists/virologists) has trained is whole life for this current train wreck. Most of that was distance communications — elevated to high priority in the Bush era. About a year ago, my family played the cooperative board game, Pandemic. There’s an online version these days. Not sure if it’s a little too high-level of a simulation for scouts, but I recall thinking as we played it, “These engineers have no idea how close to reality this hits home.”

For “why”, you need to look at the source ... https://scoutingwire.org/bsas-commitment-to-act-against-racial-injustice/, specifically, the signatories. This bypasses the usual MB process and comes from the top down. The CEO’s bio https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2020/01/28/getting-to-know-roger-c-mosby-the-new-president-and-ceo-of-the-boy-scouts-of-america/ explains: In the past decade, HR folks have benefited greatly from mandatory D&I. It stands to reason that if you put a person with that background at the top of your organization, this is the solution he will push down to every level he can.

Anybody have a recipe for camp-made tortilla chips? I’ve made some at home from tortillas.

Slip it behind the wedding picture!

Not the worst strategy, as long as the boys realize they’re lost before they get hungry.

I love all of the white Lake Erie Council scouters in the comments lining up to counsel this badge ... without even seeing the requirements. I wish them well.

That’s a definite disadvantage. Our previous SM was just hitting his stride when his job promoted and relocated him. It’s time consuming for the rest of us to train new SMs. I don’t really know how rough it is on the scouts, though.

That was roughly the case for our last three. I’m hoping this third one can stick it out a little longer. Getting him onboard has been rough due to scheduling conflicts with training. But, being an Eagle Scout and having already raised two Eagle Scouts kinda helps. His job is pretty demanding, so he’s not at every meeting and activity. But, that’s not the disadvantage that you’d think. Our ASMs can get occasional practice being “the guy”, and our SPLs have a good sense that it’s on them to keep everyone on task. Basically there’s less room to take everyone for granted.

I get the impression that calling WB an "advanced scoutmaster" course comes off as niche and exclusionary. Not in my mind. Growing up, my Webelos DL could have used some advanced scoutmaster training. He was a good guy, but we were a lot to handle. Same for a lot of moms. They need a lot of resourcefulness training (i.e. 1st Class Skills), and they'll hopefully get that one way or another. Then they need to face down a world of doctors, teachers, and (sometimes) law enforcement -- in addition to their children and spouse. But I know that moms in my area (and that includes quite a few progressive thinkers) shrink away from any thought of being scoutmaster-ish. So, we play this little game of "Sure, we'll miss you on the camping with us, but while we're out enduring the elements for your boys, can you line up a fundraiser or two?" So, we call WB "advanced leadership" so DLs, CMs, MCs, and CCs feel inclined to take it. But, honestly, the course does not have a lot of specifics on how to run committees or dens. It teaches everyone how to be better scoutmasters. Even if you aren't in that particular position, knowing the thoughts and disciplines of your local SM/ASM makes you excel at your position. Along those lines, I'm not thinking that a "1st Class Skills" per-requisite isn't the barrier one would think it to be -- even for the disabled scouter who would have to go through the hoops of getting a medical waiver like some of our scouts do. It's a way of giving adults the feeling that, as far as the troop in their neighborhood is concerned, they've arrived. Such scouters would walk into WB with the confidence and experience that they passed muster with the people they care about. I think it would narrow your pool of "eligible" scouters only slightly, but those scouters might be more enthusiastic about the course.