qwazse

It's a rare co-Ed crew that would insert into backcountry with less than four ... especially if rescue may take overnight. It would have to be mostly 18-20 year olds, but then it's rare when a group that age would bother with any adults. They would not call it a crew activity. They'd leave a note on the counter, and be gone. You can tell how the evolution of my crew has gone, eh? If you've done differently with your crews, that's awesome, and I hope to see it with mine one day. It would be great to have a half-dozen kids excluding so much confidence that you and one other adult just wind up tagging along!

Didn't realize your CO was a Roman Catholic Church. Yes, they have beefed up their program.

Talked to the SPL a couple of weeks ago. He said he was tired of all the hype. (this included the homosexual and atheism issues as well.) Our older boys are having a hard time figuring out what this has to do with hiking and camping and citizenship in general. I don't think there's a scoutmaster hour, let alone minute, that could help. I do think disclosing names of suspects is a potential issue for a boy to talk over with his citizenship in the community MBC, or maybe fodder for a venturer's ethics forum.

Glad George found out his faith means something. Kinda wish the SM feels comfortable with giving it a few more months. Maybe he did, but the boy finally came to terms on his own. It's odd how believing the world was created in a week is synonymous with theism. If this is a young earth, the human mind could certainly find a plausible naturalistic explanation for it.

For the love of God, RS, don't let your church fall for that delusion! Guess where predators gravitate since the BSA has had YPG in force for three decades? That's right, go-it-alone youth groups. Guess How many churches have a national registry of "do not hires" for the ones who weren't convicted? How many cross denominational boundaries? Guess whose model churches follow to keep their youth safe? That's right BSAs. Granted your church should have a youth group for the kids who aren't suited for scouting. Add criminal background checks into the budget. Get someone who's good at the religion thing. Have them cooperate with your boys for every outdoor experience. Just don't have them throw the baby out with the bath water.

Won't my 1st class patch from 30 years ago suffice?

So this cut-off pre-dates the national drinking age, which was what I thought it was all about. Thanks for the history lesson. Scenario: a couple get engaged, one turns 21, the other is between 18 and 20, and they decide to "fly under the radar" for several months until they are married or the youngest turns 21. The older one submits adult application, the younger recharters -- both to the same unit. Nobody tents with anybody or fornicates even outside of crew activities. Someone blabs to the SE. Whose name get's added to the "special" list? The newly recruited fraternizing adult, the Advisor? the CC or COR?

This sometimes works backwards for venturing. Backpacking in wilderness recreation areas has a federally imposed limit of 10 per group. If your hike plan takes you to the interior of the area (which, with trained venturers, it probably will) you need to be prepared to split up in an emergency. So you need 4 adults. That leaves space for six youth. Boils down to a ratio of 2:3. Our Seabase contingent got two small boats instead of one large. That meant we split 10 youth and needed two adults on each boat. The captain is also there. That was a 3:5 ratio. Not sure what the effective ratio is for Philmont or Northern tier. On the other hand, older youth are more comfortable working with adults (rather than having adults do everything for them), and patrol method is not part of venturing, so it all evens out. Certainly, if you have a routine outing with four patrols of disciplined boys, two adults could easily manage the weekend's activities. Keep in mind that if a patrol has made a solid plan for a day hike, a 0:8 ratio is reasonable! Your boys might just be there in a couple of years.

I've had numerous boys complain to me about their "terrible" SPL at month 1, only to have nothing but praise for the guy at month 6. Dashed expectations are par for the course. So are pleasant surprises.

We made NPR! Big leagues!

Tenting is a non-issue. Generally, youth want to be with their buddies on venturing outings. The way this young man is making his request it's clear that sleeping arrangements are no matter. This is a matter of "status". These kids are worried about being crew members as adult+youth while engaged. They want to be continuously members in good standing with the BSA.

Thanks for the summary. Although I'm not as strident as f8033, I also am not as casual as your SM was. I think this was a good call on the SE's part.

SMBradley, FYI, if you type "Fratenization Policy" in the search box on this page, it will bring up some older threads on this matter. Not sure how much any of those will help your decision more than what's been posted here, but give them a read just in case. IMHO preparing for marriage is not the same thing as "peer-based social relationships". (Even Facebook makes the distinction!) I can see a lot of benefits engaged to couples being under the magnifying glass of the crew. E.g., how does he perform as a leader in relationship to his fiance? Is the same kind of leadership expected in his marriage? How does her life in the crew inform on what she's bringing to the marriage? For some advisors, all of that may be an agrument for asking the older of the couple to sit out until they're both adults, for others it may be precisely why they took up Venturing in the first place. Anyway, since positions on camp staff will come into play here, I'd call your SE and ask how to best support the both of them. I'm pretty sure the answer will be, "Don't be ridiculous, keep them both registered. Give the boy an adult app for his birthday."

E732, My CO is a Presbyterian Church. Presbyterian ministers were players in the whiskey rebellion. Consumption of hard liquor is a grand tradition (although the Women's Temperance Union did manage to, well, temper it.) Smoking, well, tobacco made this country what it is. So, unless the boy insists on inhaling Cuban cigars, it is sort of duty to country. If he doesn't believe in God, how can he do his duty to it? I would encourage the boy to stop the charade. Or, get serious with his maker because all of that drinking and smoking is doing nothing to forestall an encounter with Him. I wouldn't sign. I would ask him to think sincerely about what's being put before him, and have him come back in a month so we can continue the discussion. Even if he decides scouting's not for him I'd enjoy keeping in touch with the lad.

If a young married woman wants to be treated as an adult, she can join the ladies quilting club or whatever. If she wants to top rope with her single buddies and maybe wrap up her silver award on the weekends, I'm treating her as a youth. Meanwhile if her husband wants to help me get some high schoolers on the right track for planning a trip, I'm using him. He'll either be my coadvisor or (if my SE yanks my chain) my consultant - no paperwork necessary. Marriage is not the same thing as a guy culling the crew for dates on the weekend. I'm not messing with holy institutions. Not ever.

Venturers who are less connected with our troop have less trouble with the venturing oath, but value oaths in general a lot less. Not sure if this policy will change that. We're still blending cultures that have developed on different trajectories for 13 years of the youths' life.

Great, if you get a chance to talk the "Eagle or don't drive" dads off that ledge, you would be doing yourself a favor. Point out to the dads that a boy who can drive to his MBC is an asset, and that you'll let the dads know if their boy is showing responsibility consistent with someone you'd trust behind a wheel. Putting fellowship first over rank advancement will enable you to have both! Encourage the boys to pick MBs that suit their interest rather than get them to that next oval patch faster.

We really try not to make a distinction between new parent vs. seasoned parent jobs. Maybe we're just not that organized. A new dad might be just a few hoops away from certified range instructor, so guess who's getting paperwork for MBC for rifle and shotgun shooting. One of our dads is pretty sharp when it comes to marketing: he got our recruiting drive. I came in with a firm belief in forced marches in bear country: our troop suddenly had a backpacking coordinator. As I learned about youth leadership, I passed on a lot of what I did in year 1 to the SPL or JASM in year 2. We do try to get new parents to sit in on boards of review. We welcome new dads to the back of the kitchen for the spaghetti dinner fundraiser. The fact is, we accept that the boy-lead model has ups and downs every year as different parents come in with new visions of how that should work.

First, you should ask where they've posted a registry. You'll want to save up for their gift. Second, the rules weren't meant to undermine a healthy lifetime relationships. Needless to say they can't bunk together until they're married.

"I'm not about to be bothered by the burrs up other folks' butts, including yours." Quote that around our council and someone might just ask if you've been talking to me! I hope your SM has the same attitude. In other words, he credits the work that folks do for boys and discounts personality conflicts among adults. Above all, he respects committee members in proportion to the service they give. In some cases, that service amounts to one hour a month (or maybe less), but if that's an hour doing what nobody else wants to or can do, it means a lot. (Just think about the man-hours you could waste in committee deciding who would do that one job!) And sometimes the boys benefit from someone with a troop connection puttering about council. A boy may have a project that spans several districts, there might be an opening on a council contingent that a boy might like, or you just might have the heads up on training opportunities. So, if the SM has no current beef with the guy, call him. Ask him what he's been doing lately and if he needs to still be on the troop roster for his position at council. Support him as best you can. The other two MCs? Ask the SM about having a conversation where he slips in that first line.

BD, only if our SPLs. Can get paid for the job! Otherwise, I think our adults are actually helped by getting a sense of our boys' progress. I know in youth sports we sometimes pay referees, but scouting is a different kind of sport.

It's not exactly DADT. It's asking a youth to not cave in to society's pressure towards sexualization (of any orientation) before he/she can even afford the costs of sexual activity. (Otherwise, the government or my insurance plan pays.). I've done that for several youth and, oddly, they seemed to have listened at least until they were officially adults. If a youth tells me, "I don't care about the costs, or my religion, or the norms you're trying to foist on me." I might just reply, "Well, scouting just might not be for you." Not a single youth has told me that. So I'm just being hypothetical. If one ever does, I'll let you know a few monts after the fact..

And here my worst worry was some venturer telling my she's pregnant, due date 9 months post our last camp-out! It's clear to my youth I'm stridently pro-virginity. And, since sexual preference does not seem to be as "locked in" as some would propose, I'd ask the boy if he's able to hold that thought until he's 18 and his other scouts have matured enough to join in that conversation. The closer to adulthood, the more direct I would be about BSA policy and encourage the boy to reconcile his stance with that. Hopefully that won't mean leaving the organization, but it may.

They are youth. They are rarely fully functional! This is the first substantial leadership role for most of these boys. I've been in organizations with seasoned adults, and they never quite succeeded until we all agreed that there's some growing to do in all of us. Getting boys to accept that is a lot tougher. So to each boy say something like "I'll be patient with you if you'll be patient with him!" Actually I have know idea what the right word choice will be for your boys. I've seen different SM's do it differently. The fact that they even were making the effort to listen and encourage seemed to make a difference. Needless to say, positive reinforcement as these boys complete tasks (including showing up for meetings, showing due courtesy, etc ...) is essential.

Nice to hear your progress. These 15 year olds, you should have them as part of your self-assessment. Maybe not right away, but in a few months. So, you may want to throw a little humility in the mix. "Guys, I am just starting out as SM. You're my most experienced scouts. I won't have any idea if I'm doing a good job if you aren't out in the field to evaluate me. I need you to stick with us, especially during this Webeblos cross-over stuff. That may sound like I'm asking a lot of you, but if you do, how can I make it up to you?" Think in terms of rewarding trips just for the 14+ crowd. Whitewater, caving, climbing. Or just a "leadership patrol" weekend to themselves. Then, tell them they let their SPL down. They owe him an apology. Leave the MB separate. Just tell them that as part of the course, from here on out you expect them to contact you and arrange an appointment for any requirements to be reviewed. I think that would be a plan the boys' dads can get behind.