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Sentinel: don't know which "thumpers" you know. But the best ones I've met reply, "Yes, and greatly." Of course, that sort doesn't get the best TV time. Now, nationwide we have certain "clashes of orthodoxies" here. One that insists that scouts in scouting should only be exposed to adult leaders who comport themselves sexually in a particular way (set of ways) vs. the other that insists scouts should be exposed to adults who comport themselves sexually in the variety of manners that represent the communities in which they live. One that insists that scouts in scouting should h

Went over these with the boys. Seems like they got it. None of them ever noticed that they never needed to light a fire! (The aren't a lot to leave any lay unlit.)

Discussed this with SM while hiking this weekend. For these near misses, can we just send in a photo and general description of each boy in the troop? Proactive reporting would save so much time! Seriously though, I think structured interviews of a stratified random simple of unit's across the nation will be more effective and accurate. Most leaders have a good idea of the troubles they had last year, and your more likely to get them to rattle off that info than to report every incident pig or small.

If I were you, I'd encourage your venture patrol to give itself a name that reflects something leadership corps-ish. Some examples: The Bosses, Top Guns, Long Walkers, or Leadership Corps A second unit has a lot of hassles. There are a few rewards, like helping out kids who missed out on scouting from ages 11 - 13. But if you don't have adults who'll support it, or youth who have a vision for it, it amounts to a lot of paperwork for what you could otherwise do by simply giving special attention and challenges to that patrol of older boys (by whatever name you call them).

Thanks for the update. This may be a challenge. For example where would this fall on the Good, Better, Best continuum ... ? Venturer fell skiing. It hurt. After evaluation by the group, qualified for for the crew face-plant award. Was given her choice of imported chocolate bars. She chose raspberry filled milk choc. No further symptoms reported afterword. I guess it's a near miss. Not typically something I would complete paperwork for. It would be something our youth would evaluate. It would probably be forgotten by the end of the charter year.

Pack, this was pre-GPS. The boy had dropped out of scouts, so I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have a compass and only carried half the water he should have. I'll have to have him re-tell the story. He did get some great pictures. General question: what level of skill/experience do you require before you let a patrol navigate off-trail in an isolated area like this? Let's not factor in adults because even when they are there, my experience is that it's even odds that they will be a liability instead of an asset. Some of my boys are almost at a level where they could do this,

BP, I guess you don't pastor a Presbyterian church.

It's not just units that drift away from "by the book" advancement. I had one case where we had to call national over an Eagle app. (One of my first posts on this forum.) council was ignoring a straightforward read of position of responsibility requirements.

I only visited with my family while passing through. But, my nephew nearly got lost on a day hike there. So yeah, navigation skills.

Thanks Rick. Just saw something today that the NYC had a record low murder rate last year. I think there's two additional factors. There are more than twice as many of us since 1950, so in terms of sheer numbers, we have more violent deaths. Media is much more efficient at disseminating news, so we're hearing about more of those deaths nationwide. So, I think some folks had the expectation that an enlightened society would have fewer total violent deaths.

consent of all except the fetus and in a peaceful context except for the fetus. But, thanks for the language. Because isn't the playing of violent video games done with the consent of all and in a peaceful context? If practicing the dispensation of death in actuality is not to be associated with a violent society, then probably practicing it virtually cant be either. I like Stosh's acceptance that we're a brutal lot much better.

CP: a person's sexual orientation is defined by the sexual relationships an adult has with other adults You might have to update a few Wikipedia references, then. And Webster, for that matter. Just like heterosexuality, homosexuality includes, at least on this campus, older participants grooming younger ones. Their ability to draw the line at age 18 is a mere formality. I'll agree that the molestation threat to our youth comes from those who fail to draw the age line. And, the reality is that those folks don't come to us with warning labels! The ban has little to do with

Mike - Your bigotry against happy shooters is duly noted. It's really arrogant of you to think anything else is more important. Trev - For every person I've talked to who throws the exclusions into the mix, dozens more have talked to me about this organization with extreme admiration. Our boys? CP - your defining the "ugly" homosexual acts out of the definition of "gay" is as disingenuous as Beav's claims of diversity. We're about as close to naming the sexual orientation of pedophilles as we are to figuring out how to overcome race and class divides among different scouting units.

In the 60s, indifference to the life of the unborn was not a public option. Now, from the start of every pregnancy, a woman's right to terminate the life within for any cause is held inviolate. Fortunately indifference to life after the womb hasn't risen to a comparable rate ... Yet.

Thanks. I'll share it with our boys this weekend. If they say anything relevant, I'll bring it up here next week. Just one question about data flow: Why isn't this sort of thing on scouting.org first?

Not advising a course, but from the vantage of complete ignorance ... Still use him. But now you have the advantage of hindsight to point out to boys the importance of self-evaluation. It sometimes takes years for a strong leader to face his/her own faults. The longer he/she waits, the harder it gets ... the worse the consequences for everyone around. Still, brutal honesty is the only way to open the door to redemption.

Rich, The thing is, councils take national's attempt to simplify things (like the tour plan instead of a goofy array of tour permits) and bludgeon volunteers with them (like attempting to require them for every gathering outside your regular place of business). The medical form is now a small novel. On the bright side, if one of our languages is ever lost to history, archaeologists will now be able to use it as a Rosetta stone. And everyone waves that insurance bogey man! Simple program changes can be stifling. An SM gets wind of boys planning to camp at Farmer Ben's, they

Is every molester of young boys a perpetrator of having gay sex with young boys? Absolutely yes. Unless the perp is female. Which, I guess kinda makes Trev's point.

Pardon me if while growing up reading the "Scouts in Action" section of Boys Life about medal of honor recipients who while on an overnight with their patrol, happened to complete a rescue of some hapless stranger that I took it to mean that "patrols, well prepared, save lives." Heck, I remember one time while hiking with my buddies (back in the day when you just got together and did those sorts of things) that we crossed a pipeline and smelled gas. We hustled home and reported it. There's no telling if it amounted to a big problem or not. But that's what I think patrols should be doin

I'm wary that letting the scouts elect/select and self-regulate might not result in the change we need. That could be your problem. You think that, by allocating boys on your own, the odds are in your favor of getting the intended results. Whatever does or does not happen will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Something to think about.

You are paying the cost of being "first" to break in this HA base, there will be bumps in the road. When Jambo moved around every time, I bet there were similar challenges. I was at the first Jambo at AP Hill. Not everything ran smoothly (as I learned later), but I had a great time. So, do think of things from a youth's perspective. Maybe your son does need to know exactly what he will be eating six months from now, but maybe he'll have fun regardless. I agree that this is overhyped. At it's core Jambo is about gathering scouts. All the other stuff is just Disneyland.

Our scouts do share. (Sometimes they have to wait until they get near a cell tower.) It does do something for esprit-de-corps. It hasn't helped recruiting.

The removal of the patrol overnight exemption was just after your SM HB. We discussed it here: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=307375&p=1 OGE, sure, I'm using a little hyperbole. But, I sincerely believe our citizens are better served by properly trained patrols of scouts out in the field. Having to coordinate a rendezvous with adults for their overnight unnecessarily limits the range of a patrol.

We changed to this configuration his year. It was getting ridiculous at rechartering time to chase down both the COR and EO for signatures on three separate charters thet never seemed to get completed at the same time. Both persons had the same position in the CO ("elders on session" in a presbyterian church), so functionally they had the same responsibility/authority and just divided it up because it sounded like BSA required it to be at way. So in practice, one would be our go-between with the church, and the other would sign paperwork once a year.

Via two means: 1) Biannual YPT training. 2) Tour plans that cannot be completed by youth members, unless two adults are attending. In our neck of the woods, the commissioner staff has very little influence in the matter. If you have a dozen electronically trained adults whose only responsibility is the unit, who aren't hashing things out at roundtable, in a district with few UCs, well then edicts direct from national are all there is. Now, the one positive of this is that if patrols do plan their outings independently, more adults will be called upon to support them. And, more i