qwazse

I'll speak plainly: It is a crying shame that cubs do not have a tradition of handing down uniform pants as soon as they outgrow them. If you see this as a real need, talk to your bishop. Sure, methods of scouting are just methods, but there's a point at which boys want to look sharp (even if they fuss at you over finding their pants). It may not be important to your small group of boys because they have probably only experienced den or pack life, but when they get a taste of a camporee or summer camp, it may matter to one of them. (In fact, you can think of the full uniform as a way of getting a taste of being part of something nation-wide.) I bet if it is mentioned from the pulpit that blue pants should not sit in the back of closets going to waste, you will have a half dozen pairs -- half of which will most likely fit -- at your disposal that week. Now I'm one of those guys who is perfectly fine with a cub being out of uniform (or halfway in, however you choose to look at it) and saluting the flag. I point out to my boy scouts when they are out of uniform, but I still hold them responsible to accomplish whatever is on the roster. They understand that I am merely stating a fact -- and not throwing attitude. However, if YOU feel like you're catching attitude for it, quoting old farts like us won't solve the problem. Getting your boys to look sharp and be proud will. Can they do that in jeans? I think so. But should they have to? Probably not.

I'll speak plainly: It is a crying shame that cubs do not have a tradition of handing down uniform pants as soon as they outgrow them. If you see this as a real need, talk to your bishop. Sure, methods of scouting are just methods, but there's a point at which boys want to look sharp (even if they fuss at you over it). It may not be important to your small group of boys because they have probably only experienced den or pack life, but when they get a taste of a camporee or summer camp, it may matter to one of them. (In fact, you can think of the full uniform as a way of getting a taste of being part of something nation-wide.) I bet if it is mentioned from the pulpit that blue pants should not sit in the back of a closet going to waste, you will have a half dozen pairs half of which will most likely fit at your disposal that week. Now I'm one of those guys who is perfectly fine with a cub being out of uniform (or halfway in, however you choose to look at it) and saluting the flag. I point out to my scouts when they are out of uniform, but I still hold them responsible to accomplish whatever is on the roster. but if YOU feel like you're catching attitude for it, quoting old farts like us won't solve the problem. Getting your boys to look sharp and be proud will. Can they do that in jeans? I think so. But should they have to? Probably not.

From another thread, I came up with an example of WB's indirect benefit. A scouter was trying to micromanage my youth's menu. (If you ever ate any of this young lady's cooking, you would realize how absurd that sounded to me.) After listening (just like my WB class told me) I told her as politely as I could to back off. Her husband, having completed WB a few years earlier, told her that I was doing the right thing, and to let the youth-led menu play out. So, I'm giving it props for securing me the best supper at that camporee! Guess y'all now know the way to my heart.

Richard, It sounds like you made the right choice. (Listening to the Mrs. is generally the right choice.) If you're coming home grumbling about adults instead of talking up kids, it's a bad sign. Regarding the SPL and the committee, one of the better ways to deal with the planning issue is to have him fill out a tour plan and highlight the stuff he needs from adults. (Review of the meal plan is NOT one of those things! I had a CC try to do that "for" my crew, and I shut her down quickly. Fortunately her husband called on his Wood Badge experience and backed me up.) That's sort of why I don't like the online system. It deprives the youth of doing the work. Still, the way the CC should have handled it, was "Thanks for the info, let us know how we can help you." or "We'll assign one adult to make sure your paperwork for this will pass muster with Council HQ. Who would you prefer?" But, this is one of the problems of a lack of training: the group thinks every detail is everyone's responsibility. There's a lot you can do behind the scenes. One of them is nudging your troop's best adults to training. The other, as a Pack leader, is go directly to the SPL and SM to request den chiefs. I'm sure you'll think of others.

Some posts work fine, some seem to require logging out and back in and pasting the message. But, I keep trying to reply to the "Troop and crew conflict thread," but it keeps giving me an "empty response" error!

The ranger did not divulge name or unit #. I'd like to think he'd inform the advisor. He's the kinda guy that will confront us if our unit does something wrong, although that usually involves the boys not replenishing the woodpile for the next weekend. (Actually, we love going to that camp for that reason.) Fact is, how much any one of us has to deal with this depends on the age of the youth, the attitudes of the parents, and the culture in which they surround themselves. Kids who don't like someone like me appearing out of the dark at some completely unexpected time prepared to have a friendly chat until they tuck in don't roll with my crew. The ones who expect me to be asleep and unwakeable in my tent (when I even bother to pitch one) an hour later are severely disappointed. Truth be told, this has more to do with my interest in astronomy, nocturnal wildlife, and bladder function than any mistrust of my co-eds. But, it works for that purpose.

Advisors: Afternoon naps. Wake at 17:00. On the prowl at 23:00. Sleep 02:00-04:00! Seriously. Dating is cool. Fornication is not. Venturing is no cheap date, and my youth get that. (In fact, son #1 has carried that attitude through college, and even on the trail with his fiance this spring, made sure they went with buddies.) Talking to some rangers, I know that other crews are not as strict. (Including LNT failures regarding condoms.) And, like you said KDD, we adults can't police everything. We can be a little more intrusive than giving a couple the keys to a '57 Chevy!

Your definition of "insuring" clean is betrayed by the many folks I know who we're brought in on a busted rubber! Orthodox Chrisitian teaching also puts sex as a gift from God. "Be fruitful and multiply" was our first command. Original sin does not involve sex. It has to do with the human inclination to disdain what God has given and instead lust after what God has yet to give. There's no agenda in pushing abstinence until marriage. It leads to safest sex, healthiest families, more responsible fathers, stable economies in indigent areas. (It did tick off 18th century sailors who Charles Darwin heard complaining that, thanks to missionaries, they could no longer exploit Polynesian women "for love nor money.") All that said, I have never suggested that any sexually active youth I knew be removed from scouting. We do want youth being up-front with their parents about these things. If that's happening, then I'll save my "Clash of Orthodoxies" lectures until a youth asks my opinion on these matters. Otherwise, I'm just a guy hiking you into bear country.

First, thanks for your service to these boys. Second, you are in an impossible situation. I would stop worrying about achievements, and start focusing on skills. Literally, sit down with the boys and ask them what they want to do next month. Start a collection? Make toys? Play catch? Write a play/ puppet show? Arm wrestling? If these happen to help a boy achieve, fine. If not, the boys will love you for helping them accomplish something they'd always wanted to try. Leave achievement up to the parents. If they don't want to contribute to the life of the pack, or even to their boys growth, then fine. Don't give a boy what he doesn't deserve. Just let him know that he can still earn the next rank and it's time for him to start now that he's moved up.

The membership stats are very telling. If our council is any indication, in about 2005 the register was "padded" with units who had no intention of using BSA materials. Shortly thereafter, we hit a "bust" cycle where those same units dropped off the map. I guess in the proposed rubric, they were all about one of those pillars, but not all four. I've met SMs who were asked to be crew advisors said yes and then gave up because it took time away from a troop that needed a lot of work to keep from being helicopter parented. It was a formula for flash-in-the-pan crews. I'd like to see a decade of slower growth of more solid units with COs that have a solid vision for how this meshes with the rest of their program. Maybe this roadmap will help. I just don't know.

Don't fool yourself 2c, if they won't participate in person, chances are they'll ignore you online as well. This is from experience with a Venturing Officers Association which tried web-hosting its meetings this year.

I don't envy challenges facing you as a single dad. I know how much work it is to earn moms' trust when their HS girls want to join my crew. Sometimes there is just nothing you can do. (And I have a seasoned GS mom as a co-advisor.) One boy in my crew had fond memories of IG, so I think I'd look into it if I were in your position. If a couple of GS mom's are willing to step out and form a troop that emphasizes the out-of-doors, I would encourage you to step forward. Let them know that your success depends on them, and try to plan a couple weekends under canvas in the next six months.

Actually, I think I'll pitch this to my church (who look to be parting ways with the PC/USA over similar issues). The downside of the BSA was the lack of program for young girls. A cohesive, parallel program for both sexes will has a lot of appeal. ... Thanks for the link H67! ... What's really interesting: they are not explicitly excluding homosexual youth. Be neat to see how that plays out.

Two reasons: 1. Light a fire under your butt to meet some goals for you and your unit in the next year or so. My ticket was not earh-shattering, but it helped me set the tone for other things I was trying to accomplish. 2. Meet other leaders in your area, and get to know them far better than the limited time at camporees and roundtables would allow. This paid off for my crew because one December, they wanted to go backpacking, and I needed a female adult. I had met another advisor who was not intimidated by snow and she had a couple of youth who wanted to join us. Our course doled our some pretty nice swag, and I have used some of the materials with my youth, so it wasn't all misery. There was also instruction on a lot of items we discussed in recent posts (remote fire starters, uniforms, advancement, what is venturing, team development, non-sectarianism, etc ...). Would I have liked to harm more wood and watched fewer videos in the process? Sure. But me and the other old Crows got a lot out of it.

I think you wrote it down twelve times, but let me jus point out four ... Trustworthy: can be trusted not to gawk after someone else's spouse. If ya ain't wed to it, it ain't yours. Loyal: faithful to own spouse. You don't know who that is until the knot's tied. .... Clean: comports oneself in a disease free manner. Thinks in a way that doesn't demean sex. Reverent: approaches sexuality as a gift from the creator, to be used in accordance with religious conviction.

Boils down to this: Do the scouts have the skills? Why we make it more complicated than that stupefies me.

The new vision for Venturing uses youth-led adventures and a simplified program model to provide a means of developing leadership skills, reinforcing the value of service to others, and creating opportunities for personal growth in line with the Scout Oath and Scout Law. Read http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...ouncement.aspx Vote. Discuss.

Old farts (often the fellas who've raised $$$ for scouting) write this stuff off on their tax returns.

Venturers can start at age 14 (or whenever they complete 8th grade) and age out at 21. It's a shame that the program is still foreign to cub leaders and parents. I didn't know about it until son #1 (then a wolf scout) and I talked to a camp staff about her program. (I had mistakenly used the term Explorer.) The program was quite new then, but we seem to be in the same situation today.

There are some funds set aside for the youth member's travel. I forget how they are acquired, it's not exactly popcorn.

I know of two youth in my crew who darn well better be sexually active. They've been married for a year! Otherwise, I make it clear that virginity is to be held in high esteem. But, I do believe that there's room for grace. More importantly, I ask youth to understand what their religion says about the matter, and live accordingly.

KDD, right you are. This is a problem. Tagging along with the troop is inappropriate. Sure, you can host a family camping weekend or two, but I think it has the potential to just remind a girl that "she's not one of us." Until the young lady can actually be part of a patrol, and follow the tracks that we've laid out for the boys, we're just playing a "separate-but-equal" game poorly. But, if my boys and the adults in the Troop had been willing to get over their hang-ups to welcome my daughter into the big woods -- even if POR's and rank advancement was not in the offering, I would have jumped on the chance just like BD did. As it stands, last night I was explaining the patrol method to a 19 year-old lady who could have experienced it first-hand.

I agree with Stosh. In fact my troop has as little interest in camporees as the crew does, so these big events where lots of adults are around to see how we operate when we're at the same place at the same time are few. But even before we had the crew, the older scouts, including SPL, were off doing their own thing (e.g., conditioning for Philmont, with our approval) during the day. We might see them at camp in the evening, then they'd break camp and be gone before daybreak! Only difference now, is folks who don't like it have green shirts to blame it on! But, I see it as a good thing. It makes the crew officers plan ahead and not only think about how they will have their own kind of fun, but how they will serve and support the younger units.

This breaks my heart on so many levels, I can't stand it. My wife and I endured a similar disheartening experience with our daughter. There were only a couple GS troop's who camped, and they were full! (Or they thought they were. I've never seen a BSA unit where there wasn't room for one more.) Our solution: 1. camp with the kids on family vacations, and 2. send them to a church camp which included a pool, a paddock, several field sports areas and lots of folks singing 'bout Jesus. In both of those situations we usually partnered with another family we knew who had kids our age. Other things to consider: Campfire USA. Turns out my aunt is one of the oldest living Campfire girls, and her experience with them as a child in the depression era (camping under canvas all summer) is part of what motivated me to become a crew advisor. American Heritage Girls: looks good on paper, very BSA-like (a little more Jesus than your average pack, but reports from non-Christian participants are coming back generally positive.) I do hope you can push your GS troop a little. It will be good for all of those girls. But of you're getting push-back, it may be time to find something that meets the goals you have for your daughter.

I routinely take it upon myself, in these kinds of events, to herd SPLs back to their troop. But do keep in mind that even without venturing, SPLs and senior scouts often will find chances to stand off from the troop. Keep in mind that sometimes the SM finds opportunities for older boys to serve elsewhere so the younger ones begin to rely on themselves. That star scout, if he did well, now has something he can campaign on for the next SPL election. When my crew and troop plan joint activities, I ask them to think about their various leadership responsibilities and determine how their time will be divided. I would encourage the parent to ask the SM if he understood what was going on ahead of time, and what he inks about it.