qwazse

P.S. - sorry for the "downtown" reference, that's where our council HQ happens to be. Technically, it's between "Dahntahn and the Hill, by the Civic Arena that they tore down" in Pittsburghese.

For your son's part, is he having fun? Specifically "just insane" meetings can mean boys going off and getting into fights. Or, it could mean boys going off to try to accomplish a task, and being boys there's a good bit of herding cats to keep everyone on task. In the first case, your son will not be having fun (unless he's a bully ... but even then probably not). In the second case your son will be laugh about all of the silliness that went on when they were trying to do the task. Same applies to outings, patrol gatherings, etc ...

It's time for a lesson in scouter-speak ...

Thanks, Mom22. It's good to know you have a boy who's driving you nuts trying to earn stuff! So you have a belligerent SM and a committee full of BS-ers. Does that change how I think you should deal with this? Not by much. I'm not saying I agree with the SM. I just understand about how an ageist attitude sets in. Although lifesaving MB is not BSA guard, it is a little more serious than sustainability MB. This scenario happens more often than any of us would want, and the options are few: Call the SM on the carpet. You did this. I'm sorry your boy wasn't a little older, because it would have been fun to see him respectfully make his case. You having to advocate for him reflects a sad state of affairs. Run. Others have suggested finding a different troop. That's sometimes easier said than done. Listen to your boy. If he's not really having fun. Consider it. Otherwise remember the smiles on his face and accept the fact that there's gonna be a little nonsense. Fun.The best way for your boy to get the silk purse out of the sows ear, is to try and get the rest of his patrol into practicing lifesaving skills. (Gravy would be him demonstrating a rescue on the SM!) Given the way this went down, the patch is gonna be small consolation. Like 2C said, expect some otherwise useful folks to bail in a huff over this ... unless you find a way for everyone to dispense a little grace.

I never took that as a flat-out "don't". But as a "buyer beware." Sometimes your back is up against a wall, and options are few. In my crew, I sometimes don't get that essential female adult without a youngn' in the mix. I find making this compromise is hardest on the siblings of the tag-a-long. Even while camping 300' away, they can find a way to be bothered by it. I make it clear that the parent must be responsible for the tag-a-long at all times. The kids, even if they were willing to baby-sit, did not sign up to do so.

NJ, being a position, yes, it's up to the unit. Use it just like you use Musician.

Boy Scout: Hey Mister, you know you got your flag hung up wrong? Archie Bunker: Now listen, Boy Scout - you're talkin' to a veteran of World War II. This is the way we used to hang the flag on the fire. Boy Scout: You were doin' it wrong. The stars are supposed to go in the other corner. You want me to hang it the right way for ya? Archie Bunker: Uhhh, yeah yeah, all right. You could do that. But uh, listen - no tip, that ain't a good deed. Boy Scout: [picks up the flag off the hanger and notices the swastika painted on the door underneath] Hey Mister, you know you got a swastika on your door? Archie Bunker: Awwwww, sheeeesshhhh... gimme the flag, kid, now GET LOST, HAH?

I should have wrote "bias in favor of" ... but BSA is perfectly fine with virgins running their program. However, this is an example of of where there is no bias "constitutionally" (lower case "c" as in the organization's constitution has no problem with it), but we have had scouters wonder about volunteers who were never married or in any social relationship, which would be "institutional" discrimination. In a similar way, the GSUSA (to whom I was referring) has nothing on the books against male leaders, but some male volunters have felt alienated when they felt they could best serve as direct contact leaders. That's what I meant by "institutional" discrimination. BSA constitutionally does not serve 6-12 year old females, and has made it clear that there is no path for 14-18 year old females to join order of the arrow. Also, in its no fraternization policy, it discriminates against leaders who take a shining to 18 to 20 year old venturers or any venturer who would reciprocate the overture from a 21-or-over leader. None of this seems to be an issue in the CA codes of judicial conduct. Also, it seems like as long as we allow godly gays the justices would back off. Or, Merlyn, did I skim too quickly, and is the court also up in arms about the antipathy towards athiests?

Although I'd agree with Ken, my wager is these two are too proud to get trained, and AndysMom is stuck in the middle with them. I'm an ASM, and if this stunt was pulled in my troop I'd be livid. Committees have faulted boys for not showing up with their books, being out of uniform, etc ... and allowed the boy to come back next week with that one thing corrected. It wrankled, but not the end of the world. This sounds like their definition of "leadership" conflicts with the SM's. Heck it sounds like you all are divided on the definition of what makes a "star scout" (the concept, not the patch). Next committee meeting, you all need to get on the same page. Meanwhile, the boy ... the SM should take his side, give him a call, and ask "Since we've been given a hoop, what is the most fun way to jump through it?" - Get a two (or more) tarp ropes and walking sticks. Lead a patrol race to assemble a shelter. - Get a hose or shovel snow on it to determine which patrol's shelter holds the best. - Call the national guard armory, maybe they have a 24 man tent that could be set up. - Blindfold the rest of the patrol, direct them into setting up (and taking down) the tent. This might involve calling an emergency PLC to adjust the meeting agenda, but if the adults are throwing lemons, gang up and make them some lemonade to throw back in their faces!

Boyscouts love paperwork ... So put it in writing. That said, this isn't that unusual. Ask the SM if he thinks the decision is reasonable. Usually, the SM conference nips these issues in the bud. It's odd that this issue wasn't identified before the BoR.

The world's rife with transgressions. But let's ask ourselves, why wouldn't we want to find a way to compensate all of those actors for their cinematic genius? If their work product isn't worth that much, why wouldn't we have some older scouts make a home-spun video with which to entertain our cubs?

Had to cancel meeting tonight. Roads were deceptively slippery.

To be honest? A simple matted picture of the den, with the boys signatures on the matting would make a day and last forever. If your having trouble getting all of the boys in one picture, a flip-book would work.

Talk to an SM whose had to contend with a bunch of 12 year olds who were broken that they couldn't complete the badge. (Water cold, weights heavy, lake to cloudy, etc ...) After a year or two of mopping up tears, I could see where he would want to get ahead of the curve on the next round of cross-overs. A young boy does deserve to make his case to the SM and change his mind. But, that also means that the he needs respect those times when the two of them just don't have the opportunity to talk about it. Understanding that a patch might not be forthcoming if that communication loop isn't closed on short notice. Anyway the boy supposedly has the skills. Maybe there's a more fun way to resolve this instead of adults blathering on in Byzantine litigation. He should invite the SM (or a larger surrogate) to meet him at the aquatics area and practice being his victim. Make a day of it. Bring his patrol. Invite the counselor, and bring everyone up to speed.

Thinking in retrospect having brought kids up in several styles of financial management.... Personally, I would rather see a fee with a thumbnail budget up front. (Exactly what you outlined above.) I'd be glad to pay that, Then, I'd be more than happy to fundraise to help defray costs for who can't afford it.

The court is not so naive as to make itself blind to such distinctions, so that really wont get around BSA's bias towards heterosexual/celibate theists (in the broadest interpretation thereof) as the exclusive role models for nation's youth. I certainly hope nobody turns this gun on judges who belong to the GSUSA; however, were they to do so, it would be a more nebulous swipe, because their form of discrimination against male leaders is more institutional than constitutional. That they exclusively serve female youth is not an argument against it, anymore than the NAACP chooses to exclusively serve blacks.

Is there even a judge in California who is a member of the BSA? Most judges I've met have not been. They typically keep their associations in general to a minimum. They've counseled MBs, but only recently was membership required to be an MBC. I hope BSA finds a way to waive that, because the one thing that we do want is for members of office to have opportunities to personally guide our nation's youth.

Yep, that's me. The more skilled guy wasn't willing to be our advisor. He has chaperoned a lot of hiking miles between him and his family. So, it evens out in the end.