qwazse

I should have wrote "bias in favor of" ... but BSA is perfectly fine with virgins running their program. However, this is an example of of where there is no bias "constitutionally" (lower case "c" as in the organization's constitution has no problem with it), but we have had scouters wonder about volunteers who were never married or in any social relationship, which would be "institutional" discrimination. In a similar way, the GSUSA (to whom I was referring) has nothing on the books against male leaders, but some male volunters have felt alienated when they felt they could best serve as direct contact leaders. That's what I meant by "institutional" discrimination. BSA constitutionally does not serve 6-12 year old females, and has made it clear that there is no path for 14-18 year old females to join order of the arrow. Also, in its no fraternization policy, it discriminates against leaders who take a shining to 18 to 20 year old venturers or any venturer who would reciprocate the overture from a 21-or-over leader. None of this seems to be an issue in the CA codes of judicial conduct. Also, it seems like as long as we allow godly gays the justices would back off. Or, Merlyn, did I skim too quickly, and is the court also up in arms about the antipathy towards athiests?

Although I'd agree with Ken, my wager is these two are too proud to get trained, and AndysMom is stuck in the middle with them. I'm an ASM, and if this stunt was pulled in my troop I'd be livid. Committees have faulted boys for not showing up with their books, being out of uniform, etc ... and allowed the boy to come back next week with that one thing corrected. It wrankled, but not the end of the world. This sounds like their definition of "leadership" conflicts with the SM's. Heck it sounds like you all are divided on the definition of what makes a "star scout" (the concept, not the patch). Next committee meeting, you all need to get on the same page. Meanwhile, the boy ... the SM should take his side, give him a call, and ask "Since we've been given a hoop, what is the most fun way to jump through it?" - Get a two (or more) tarp ropes and walking sticks. Lead a patrol race to assemble a shelter. - Get a hose or shovel snow on it to determine which patrol's shelter holds the best. - Call the national guard armory, maybe they have a 24 man tent that could be set up. - Blindfold the rest of the patrol, direct them into setting up (and taking down) the tent. This might involve calling an emergency PLC to adjust the meeting agenda, but if the adults are throwing lemons, gang up and make them some lemonade to throw back in their faces!

Boyscouts love paperwork ... So put it in writing. That said, this isn't that unusual. Ask the SM if he thinks the decision is reasonable. Usually, the SM conference nips these issues in the bud. It's odd that this issue wasn't identified before the BoR.

The world's rife with transgressions. But let's ask ourselves, why wouldn't we want to find a way to compensate all of those actors for their cinematic genius? If their work product isn't worth that much, why wouldn't we have some older scouts make a home-spun video with which to entertain our cubs?

Had to cancel meeting tonight. Roads were deceptively slippery.

To be honest? A simple matted picture of the den, with the boys signatures on the matting would make a day and last forever. If your having trouble getting all of the boys in one picture, a flip-book would work.

Talk to an SM whose had to contend with a bunch of 12 year olds who were broken that they couldn't complete the badge. (Water cold, weights heavy, lake to cloudy, etc ...) After a year or two of mopping up tears, I could see where he would want to get ahead of the curve on the next round of cross-overs. A young boy does deserve to make his case to the SM and change his mind. But, that also means that the he needs respect those times when the two of them just don't have the opportunity to talk about it. Understanding that a patch might not be forthcoming if that communication loop isn't closed on short notice. Anyway the boy supposedly has the skills. Maybe there's a more fun way to resolve this instead of adults blathering on in Byzantine litigation. He should invite the SM (or a larger surrogate) to meet him at the aquatics area and practice being his victim. Make a day of it. Bring his patrol. Invite the counselor, and bring everyone up to speed.

Thinking in retrospect having brought kids up in several styles of financial management.... Personally, I would rather see a fee with a thumbnail budget up front. (Exactly what you outlined above.) I'd be glad to pay that, Then, I'd be more than happy to fundraise to help defray costs for who can't afford it.

The court is not so naive as to make itself blind to such distinctions, so that really wont get around BSA's bias towards heterosexual/celibate theists (in the broadest interpretation thereof) as the exclusive role models for nation's youth. I certainly hope nobody turns this gun on judges who belong to the GSUSA; however, were they to do so, it would be a more nebulous swipe, because their form of discrimination against male leaders is more institutional than constitutional. That they exclusively serve female youth is not an argument against it, anymore than the NAACP chooses to exclusively serve blacks.

Is there even a judge in California who is a member of the BSA? Most judges I've met have not been. They typically keep their associations in general to a minimum. They've counseled MBs, but only recently was membership required to be an MBC. I hope BSA finds a way to waive that, because the one thing that we do want is for members of office to have opportunities to personally guide our nation's youth.

Yep, that's me. The more skilled guy wasn't willing to be our advisor. He has chaperoned a lot of hiking miles between him and his family. So, it evens out in the end.

Can state rules for candidacy be appealed in federal court, or does this have to wait until a judges is disbarred? I don't know much about a state's right to limit the freedom of association of holder's of office.

Out council's University of Scouting program is pretty good. Think day-long roundtable and you get the idea. We also have courses for youth: den chief training, venturing leader skills course, SPL forum. One hint: drop by the Dutch oven class. Sometimes they need help "grading" students.

In general, from Oxford: [h=3]Origin[/h] Old English ilca 'same', of Germanic origin; related to alike. So....

The OP is sparse on background, so it does bring up the question of motive. Lacking details, I'm willing to go with these being hypotheticals a/he has been mulling around. Maybe someone in the unit brought them off or said something had to be a certain way. 'm always of the ilk that if a governing body hasn't specified, I have latitude. BSA intends to ban homosexual leaders, so quarters for same-sex couples or triads or whatever is gaining equal status these days is a non-issue if I'm complying with the membership standard. If I'm not, then why am I worrying about tenting arrangements?

Our Crew's memorial day service project (graveside flags in and urban cemetery) draws LDS units. Haven't seen much of them otherwise. Back in the day we did camporees and service projects together, even had a joint worship service on a Sunday morning. Both my SM and the LDS SM kept track of both of us boys as we graduated.

Yes, yes, SMs don't need to go making up spur-of-the-moment rules. Parents also need to understand that just because "planning to ask forgiveness later instead of asking permission now" may be an efficient strategy many days, it will also backfire some days. This is one. The boy decides to take a MB in one week, calls SM before the holiday, no answer, goes to course, learns stuff (that may save someone's life someday, huzzah), comes back to SM with the "you were too slow" excuse and expects a badge for it. Hear's how I think this went down, really. ('Mom22, feel free to correct.) This course was offered to some older scouts. Mom got wind of it and said to these younger scouts "hey kids here's how we can fast-track your ascent to Star." SM doesn't isn't available, drops the call for 5 days, assumes that any scout who really wants to advance rank in the next week would have talked at the last meeting, whatever! Mom figures she can just assume she has/deserves the go-ahead. That's a lot easier than saying "well, lets just take the course for skills an not worry about patches. If you want to knock off a required MB, why don't we study the requirements for several of them, and you can practice doing them then start the clock once we have a blue card?" The SM and committee react like an old-boy's network. This guy's unwritten rule really goads. But, here's the deal. I've been a look-out at aquatics areas. I've seen a 14-year old guard's immaturity get the better of him and the director come down on him like a hammer. Distraction yields danger. That's the mentality. I've said as much to SM's over the years. I'm sure other guards have said the same, hoping that sinks in. So along comes this 11 year-old jumping the gate wanting to be credited for something a patrol will count on when they set up an impromptu swimming hole. I can see why the SM is coming from. So, Mom22, at your next family reunion, when everyone wants to take a dip in the pond, will you say "Okay, my son's got Lifesaving, everyone listen to him and we're good to go."? If so, then keep pressing for that patch. Otherwise, move on to support your boy for the next MB!