qwazse

When I was a scout, canoeing trips were completely foreign. We never even thought to ask! But, the MB still was fun and the pamphlet was interesting, and there were enough state parks with small lakes and day-rentals nearby for us to go paddling on our own. Still, learning by doing, I guess. But not nearly as fun as the actual float trips my boys took on the Allegheny.

For the record, the stuff I got out of IOLS were the "extras" ... Experiences from a youth aquatics director. (Prepared me for subsequent years of BSA guard training.) Details of the sport from an avid backpacker. Stuff I'd never do, but can tell the scouts "There's this guy in the district who ..." Vindication that there is indeed more than one way to taught line hitch. At the tag-end of the orienteering session, "Oh, there's this thing called geocaching. ..." Friends.

I guess the question boils down to: What does an adult need to know that a boy doesn't? And, does an adult need to learn it in a different way?

Of course! Heck, when we went to national jamboree local corporations would load us up with swag ... Heinz pickle pins were an especially favorite tradable.

I guess training and compensating a hundred young men and women to travel around the country teaching leadership wherever they would be welcome to hang their hats for a couple of years is too expensive of a proposition.

There's a balance. You can see it in the scout law. E.g., friendly, helpful, courteous ... imply some social interaction. Thrifty, brave, clean, reverent, are mor individual challenges. Boys learn to fill in where they are lacking.Really, a board of review should be more about what the boy has learned in terms of the Oath and Law than about skills and PORs ... all of which are just a mechanism to help the boy live up to the words he says every week.

Oh ... That sounds like a good idea ... Mom comes to demanding we bling out Snowflake in the parlor ... Pull a bell out of your pocket and hand it to her.Mom: "What's this?" SM "Just a little icing for your cupcake. Sew it on his sleeve, so hear it on him from a little ways off." Mom: "why?" SM "It'll save him having to shout 'Unclean' all day."

Hmmm maybe the notion of weekend classroom style setting is completely flawed ...... Perhaps if there an award for having read a concise but accurate set of reading material and demonstrated specific skills, e.g. One for Camping another for First Aid, Hiking, Swimming, etc ... Something like a little round medallion for each ... Maybe an oval one for a certain cluster of skills ... Maybe a certain oval would represent qualification to take your boys hiking and camping independently. ... Maybe if youth could earn that same award as adults. Sure he district could still put on weekend instruction, but maybe certification should come from senior boys (if a new troop ... Perhaps from senior boys in a neighboring troop).

The one his garrrghlfriend wrote him!

Thanks for letting us know TT! I personally am uplifted by the good news.

The question is mostly intended to be rhetorical, more of a statement of admiration, considering that I've seen MCs try to teach skills like fire-starting ... chilling results at best.It's not challenging his knowledge. It's asking the boy what he's retain. There's a difference.

Missed opportunities on the adults' part. The biggest: if at all possible, we have SMCs at camp. That said, these administrative delays are minor. Your boy has a chaotic schedule that simply doesn't flex with his troop. It wasn't working AT ALL with his other troop.

Let's put it this way. If it is a re-test, are you having the BoR in a swimming pool? May the scout light a fire in your meeting place? Is he first blindfolded, dropped off five miles away with map and compass, and required to hike to the BoR location? Assuming that your BoR location doesn't have the facilities to randomly test any of the skills accorded to a 1st class scout, what makes you so sure your "re-test" will provide an unbiased evaluation of the metal of the man? The best way to find out if a scout has the skills: ASK HIM, "CAN YOU ACTUALLY DO THE STUFF LISTED ON THIS PAGE?"

@@Stosh, let's not be baited by relativism. It's a pointless exercise. (Except to note, regarding the first item on your list in reply #74, that Steeler fans keep their beauties in the stands with them, not in cheer-leading squads. ) Just because a boundary is in your "book" and not mine does not mean that I should disregard the boundary. It is healthier for all involved to accept the premise that certain persons' occupations may be found to be morally lacking. Start from there, and you can respect a mothers' disdain while proudly recognizing someone being a good neighbor and challenging others to step up their game to "go and do likewise."

This is what makes the badge interesting. Let the boy use his judgement. That's part of the exercise. He might have to just note Mostly E, or Mostly D. Then discuss with his counselor.

@@Stosh, we're talking about anatomical parts here ... Let's not elevate these particular waitresses above women who do not use their breasts in the service of someone's fertility goddess. I have friends who are actresses and models who constantly pass on gigs that they could rightfully own because their bodies would be used to fashion a dishonorable image. So, I'll give respect to those who would regard such workers as base. Likewise, I'll always give due regard to those who would never cross the threshold of our family's beer distributor. (We just dropped the cases at the back door, accepting a tip for delivery.) What I would not countenance, were I the SE, is the high-and-mighty appropriating the BSA as the "stone" that should be thrown at businesses who volunteer their time and talent. A Samaritan is disreputable on a good day, but the Good Book makes quite clear that Almighty honors them by their name when they do His good work. We don't have to like it. We do have to say "thank you" and imitate their good behavior when they outshine us.

As long as they are doing something practical (besides making $ for their CEO).

From scouting.org ... 7. Do the following: a. Take part in an emergency service project, either a real one or a practice drill, with a Scouting unit or a community agency. b. Prepare a written plan for mobilizing your troop when needed to do emergency service. If there is already a plan, explain it. Tell your part in making it work. So, now troop mobilization is not required, unless you want to do it to fulfill 7a.

I'm not splitting hairs when the neck is already sliced. When an eating establishment's claim to fame offends feminists and traditionalists, it's owners are preying on moral sensibilities for profit. The employees are willing participants in that. So, playing innocent relativist is not an option. Better to say "Welcome to America. Now lets thanks these ladies for taking time out of their week to help our boys." This attitude is why my mom resented the business. Dad went to extremes making sure his merchandise did not wind up in the hands of the under-aged (not easy to do in a college town). But her holy-roller friends wouldn't want him sponsoring their little league ... even though his kids were the most sober lot in town. He was more than happy, however, to make private donations to make sure there were enough bats and gloves on the playground. His real passion was sponsoring the Voice of America essay contest through the VFW. That did make it into the papers, but if anyone dared complain about a link to the booze, they'd be contending with the guys they saw carrying rifles in the every parade since the Whiskey Rebellion.

It would be very naive to put an issue like this on a political spectrum. I had a strident liberal relative take umbrage at a strident conservative relative who was employed as a principle in an objectifying industry for a time. Certain known family values were not worth upholding if the prodigal would have to come home to years of being dependent on family for debt relief. From that personal experience, I would say David's stance is correct. These workers choose their employment while hundreds of noble women take less rewarding work -- hazarding poverty and dependence -- out of a desire to be more consistent with certain higher standards. That's not to say I'm much different. It's to make clear that there are stones that could be thrown, according to some, but not by any. But, like I've told my boys when scouters blustered: "Regard who does the work. Honor them." The self-righteous will get their turn, as soon as they pick up the hammer and anchor those tent stakes.

@@JasonG172, I'm not a fan of diagnosis-via-news-story. Self-esteem is overrated most days. The Good Book describes it as a "who is my neighbor" issue. And I'd let it rest there. That is the meanest thing about our post-modern culture ... the notion that some people are worthy to appear in certain forms of undress, by virtue of conformity to our media-fashioned goddess archetype, and others are not.

All of the above: That is, your class should present a number of possibilities to the boys. They should decide what works for them. If there are people to contact, give them their contact info. Make it the boys' responsibility to carry out the drill. When they have implemented it, have them give you a call to schedule after action review. (Or as some troops call it, thorns and roses.) Consider each boy's requirement complete once you hear from him what went well, what didn't go so well, what he'd do differently. If you're hearing from multiple boys at once, make sure each one has a say. This is the key, IMHO, to a successful class ... some (if not all) requirements are completed via oral report to the counselor scheduled on the boys' initiative on their own time.

If the team had had a Facebook page of girls posing in ways that suggest something other than competitive swimming? As an SE, I wouldn't address that issue of norms at all. I would point out that it's rare to find volunteers for a weekend on a good summer. These ladies gave their time, their bosses freed up their schedule, and our donors deserve the credit they got. Any parent with a pool of similarly motivated employees are welcome to call HQ and line up a time to serve ,,,

If your asking "How can I fix the SM?" The answer is "very slowly." You can be very frank, and tell him he's too controlling. You could insist he take Woodbadge and other courses. Still, I have a good SM who just can't keep from spoiling the boys. So, we work together as best we can. Over the years, he's learned to be selective in he things he does for the boys. And I lean on the boys to that they owe Mr. sM big time because he bailed them out, But what you really need is the space where boys have the reigns. Do your patrol's camp 300' from each other and the adults?

Let's not underestimate the power of the male mind. I do remember certain conversations with my grade buddies starting in 4th grade ... That said, inasmuch as potential centerfold models step into my life and disrupted my fantasy world by serving in some way in my real world ... They did me a lot of good. I can, however, understand a parent's frustration at pictures of their child being part of a feature of a corporate website where most of the other features are waitresses of the month in bikinis. I don't believe that's what they had in mind when they signed a photo release.