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FYI the article is about the 1st GS/USA jamboree at BSR. Girl scouts have been having jamborees elsewhere for quite some time. Our most active GS mom in our community went to one in her youth. What hasn't happened, I think, is a trickle-down from Jamboree participants to troops. And this may have to do with age-based structure. Boy scout comes home and tells 7 grades of youth in one troop about what he did at Jambo. Girl Scout comes home and talks about it to her troop, and maybe her sister's, so only a couple of grades of youth share in her recollections.

Welcome to the forums! I don't think you want to focus on target time (unless someone in your crew has a disability) for program. The SM who has conditioned our boys for hikes, focused on being up and packed before sunrise. His crews would muster at 4:30am, break camp, move out, have breakfast a mile or two along the trail. That sounds extreme, but summer in the Rockies, if you're gunning for a peak, you want to be there before noon and heading down before afternoon storms roll in. Obviously, if summits aren't in your hike plan, you can adjust. But that;s the point isn't it? You want to be ready for program at any time every day. Get up, move, figure your speed, then over breakfast figure when you'll reach stations, stop for naps, etc ... Besides, it's a wonder when a troop full of younger boys arrives at their site, puttering all day to get set up, then the Philmont crew come in from their 10 mile shakedown hike, set up camp, have time for dinner, skits, cards, and the occasional scoutmaster conferences -- the usual older scout jamboree -- then the next morning the young scouts crawl out of bed to see the crew's campsite vacated. It's like they were visited by elves!

We might be different. Maybe I'm on the wrong side of the tracks, but I have enough acquaintances who lost jobs and their freedom to know that this is more than just people worrying about their social standing. Some folks have a firm belief that "If I just do my own thing for my own kids, I won't do hard time." How valid is that belief? I don't know. I do know that guys who were just someone's uncle, parent, or spouse get jail time. But I don't think you make a recruit by telling someone that staying out of scouting is no safer than signing on.

Flagg, your new avatar is not visible in posts. It is coming up as a "photo" button. Clicking on it takes me to your profile, where I can actually see the image. Changing themes hasn't helped.

Paycheck!

Broken leg: accident/liability insurance kicks in. There's no insurance for accusations of criminal conduct. Stigma is the least of worries.

I'm assuming you mean contacting other Packs. If that's where his heart's at, take them up on it. As a practical matter, den chiefs often have scheduling conflicts with den and pack meetings. More packs to choose from = more dens meeting = greater odds of a den meeting on the best night for the scout.

None handy. Last year our Area Director said it was quite large. If I see him in a couple weeks, I'll ask if it leveled off, and if he can give me a percentage figure of the net effect.

Rather than derailing the TG topic again with tangents about with couples from the 99%-ers of life-long biological complements, I'm reviving this thread for the sake of @EagleonFire and others who brought up those "frisky" married couples who may chaperon our youth from time to time. Besides item #6 on this year's newly-introduced code of conduct, are any new experiences, suggestions, or resolutions? Also some related topics with a youth focus: http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/23806-venture-crew-relationship-question/?p=23797 http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/4137-pda/?p=4136

@@ianwilkins, what you've described is basically the BSA policy. We can go on about back-country depth charts. etc ..., but the general policy is the same. @@MattR, just because you don't value your 5 minutes, doesn't mean that you shouldn't disrespect someone who does! You could say the same thing each of the other 3 forms that Pennsylvanian's must complete. Well then that's 20 minutes. Plus, mandatory training. State mandated paperwork for anyone serving with youth in any capacity has quadrupled in PA, and we've had a corresponding plummet of adult leaders from our rosters. Don't need comments on a blog to know that's a new reality. The "time" excuse should usually be translated into "sorry, scouting is not a priority." Folks get offended being called out that way, but I far prefer friends who will admit that, instead of scouting, they'd rather work that double shift to have a more expensive house or bigger vacation or cover the increased costs of fuel, etc ... or simply would rather occupy their time with another hobby.

Well, I hope what he learned at Powderhorn can be used to up his troop's game. (Although a more active troop won't prevent those last-minute Eagles you mentioned.) But, the adults need to be willing to let him give it a go. Here's hoping.

Maybe here's where the smoke and mirrors come in. The WB class is already chock full of leaders. Months before someone looked at each participant and somehow decided "I trust you to lead our youth." (Except for my co-advisor who handed me the adult application and said, "You only need to do this on paper so our girls can do Seabase." But that's another story.) There's really not much higher leadership in scouting. At least that's what the pro's -- the ones who actually make a career of this thing -- are always telling us. So, anybody thinking they are going to add much to such people's leadership skills has another thing coming. They will lead, and men, women, boys and girls will follow. At best, folks like that (myself included) can only benefit from managing their leadership better. Maybe they can get sold a "We all can win" vision that they poo pooed before. Maybe they can learn to wait patiently as youth go through team-building stages. Maybe they have a few more folks who they can trust to call when they're stuck with a scouter's chestnut and folks in their unit aren't helping. Perhaps when more wood was harmed in the process of WB completion, folks didn't notice what's going on. But now the whole notion of manipulating-what-you're-already-doing because we-think-there's-something-you-may-be-lacking ... well, that's what the course -- especially the game -- boils down to. Once those kind of cards are on the table, a large minority of folks aren't gonna want to pick them up. This is especially true of already strong leaders who've had it up to the eyeballs with management training.

If the boy is smart enough to provide dinner at the midpoint (assuming a reputation for cooking up some serious meals), I bet the project time gets cut by more than half .

Mea culpa, I'll go staple this over Exodus 20 right now ... Plus, I'll have copies taped to every married couple's tent who is kind enough to chaperon my crew. And here I thought suggesting they camp 100' yards away -- with a warning that I've been known to applaud command performances -- would have been sufficient.

FWIW, in the units that I'm in, adults pay for their own application out of their own dues.

JG, have a great time staffing. Use what you've learned here to help students navigate around pitfalls. Respect the "two weekends away" cost to their units. Help build tickets that actually offset that.

Glad you're here. Have fun!

Yeah, right. Same person who has "Train Them Trust 'em ..." plastered all over ... Some folks get it into their heads that youth need infinite training ... and therefore are unwilling to go beyond that step. So, they need someone else with magic beads to teach them to read.

Well, the tickets are things that I was meaning to do anyway, WB was an excuse to get around to it. The name tag lasted for a couple years. The WB necker is the only one of mine that's big enough to wear and durable enough to serve in a pinch as an actual cloth. No clue where those beads are. I think WB did help polish the rough edges of a few of my leaders. One leader was going off on me about the youth-planned menus, and her WB-trained spouse was able to make clear I was doing it by the book. But, our batch of current leaders (both in the troop and crew) seem to be doing just fine, so I agree with you. The topics are just esoteric enough to not improve on the average by-the-book scouter's intuition.

EoF, this is a discussion because it's a big country. And add the Brits who kindly chime in, sometimes on behalf of other Europeans, it's a big hemisphere. With older units, the adults should have their tents pitched at some distance from the youth. I suppose, with classic scouting (to steal a term from another thread) the SM left his wife behind. I wouldn't know, my SM was a retired bachelor who lived with his sister -- and she never set foot on a campout. I did have a Jamboree SM who was on the younger side, and he made it quite clear that he was excited to get back to his wife and baby at the end of the week. It was a trait that I admired. Blame my Arab-American heritage, but allowing a husband and wife their own tent is as old as Genesis. To me, that trumps any "we're here for the kids" high horses. ( That's how we get all of those kids. ) It doesn't hurt to know that some of the ways we click aren't automatic to other people. Winding up with an exchange student or family in your unit is more likely than people realize. So, knowing that folks from outside our respective communities would expect things to work differently helps us to be prepared.

Correction @Col. Flagg, it consumes two weekends ... As to @Back Pack's query of what leadership skills game theory teaches (or attempts to teach), I suggest wading through the miasma of previous replies in this thread @just a scout mom, I suggest you write your vision or ticket -- for yourself, don't worry about the course. Then drop your PL and course director a line telling them you don't think you'll be coming back. If either of them take the time to offer polite conversation, take them up on it. Then, after hearing them out, make your decision.

I'm sure that with a couple more events, they'll, become quite good. The adults will, too. Then you'll have to up the game. A while back, I introduced a modification of your standard course: http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/28587-goodbye-camporees-wfws-hello-saws/?p=445543 That thread has some other good ideas. Enjoy.

Pictures? Bring a kid! Sounds like you have one or more of those! These folks have been power-pointed to death. Pass around polaroids, crafts past campers have made, scrapbooks. If the kid functions well enough, have a simple interview about what he/she likes or dislikes and is looking forward to. If he/she doesn't speak much, have a parent talk about what it means to have a place like this for their child. That cuts the time you need for any old hillbilly shtick to just a couple minutes. Chances are the only other A/V you may want are a pie-chart of income, one of expenses, and some graphic of numbers served by category (age, level of disability, etc..).

Ten PM troops with 4 crack patrols is not automatically gonna get you 50 crack patrols the following year. If each of those boys only applies the fourth point of the Scout Law to their circle of 8, it might not even get you enough recruits to maintain the existing 40 patrols across the district.

But, you can still learn it from a coloring book ... Cold war humor + crayons.