ParkMan

52 minutes ago, blw2 said:

yes, supporting roles...

but

somebody has to have the vision for the troop and steer it to that direction.  From what I've seen most folks look to the SM, or CM for packs, as that top leader that set the vision.  I think this is likely because it's usually the Sm that has the "scouting experience" and the CC is often a person that really doesn't know scouting....at least that's been my experience.  When I was CM, I tried to support the DL's to set that vision in their dens....

we never had what I would call an effective CC.

but now in hind site, I realize that a good CC with a proper working knowledge and vision is probably the best seat from which to steer the vision

I agree that an effective CC's role is to lead the unit such that it operates in the best way possible.  It takes a clear vision to do that and the CC needs to be comfortable being a leader.  

I don't want to over do my analogy here - but indeed, some of those pre-defined roles is being a leader.  I'm a CC myself - in that role, pretty much all I do is lead other adults.

It's just think that we're in it together.  I would be completely comfortable with any of us recognizing another.  I could see in other places why that might be different, but in my area that would be fine.

I agree with @Eagledad - that's very good advice.

@swilliams the main question is ask you to consider is what do you want to do.  CC is a big enough job that for most folks it becomes their primary Scouting role.  If your heart is in being the pack's CC - that's great.  If not, I'd encourage you to think about whether you want to shift focus from things that interest you.

BTW - if you decide to take on the CC role - your first step should be to organize monthly committee meetings.  Don't worry about getting everyone to agree you need it - just do it.

Perhaps it's a regional thing, but I'm a CC and I've never thought of anyone as subordinate.  My thinking is that we're all volunteers filling pre-defined roles.  I sometimes describe it that we're all just actors playing a role in Scouting.

in the "of Merit" family of awards, perhaps the District Award of Merit could apply.  But, each district gets a limited number every year - so it might be tough to make that happen unless your COR has been active beyond the pack level.

You could also consider the Scouter's training award.  That's a bit less of a "you're doing a great job" award, but if the COR has qualified and doesn't have it, that would be a nice presentation.

In the end, I'm thinking you best bet might a custom award of some sort with a small presentation attached to it.

I think if you start down the path of trying to find the right electronic communication mechanism, you'll always be chasing that.

You need to have a public presence for recruiting.  Families who are shopping don't know your program - so you have to serve that audience.

Within the troop, you have more freedom.  I don't think you need multiple platforms - email, facebook, website, instagram, twitter, etc...  If you have scouts that are really having fun, scouts and parents will adjust to your system.  It could be just emails, paper letters, a website, whatever.  The key here is just be organized and consistent.  Have a system for distributing information about cancellations quickly.

It's funny how regional this is.  Is our neck of the woods all of the bigger troops and packs have web pages.  They are mostly a combination of recruiting site, picture host, and calendar repository.

I always found it best to recruit an assistant den leader too.  Being a den leader is so much easier when you're doing it as a team.

I think if I was putting together a webmaster training I'd cover topics like:

1. the different purposes of a troop website
- information for current troop members
- information for prospective scouts
I'd have an exercise to go over what kinds of things are important to each group.

2. I'd go over website usability - what makes a website easy to navigate.

3. I'd talk about keeping content fresh

4. I'd cover the BSA rules about what you can share online - names, pictures, etc.

When I was Cubmaster, I had a simple approach that worked pretty well.

- When a Cub Scout earned his rank, he got the patch at the next pack meeting.
- Blue & Gold banquet had a short celebration of den accomplishments.  The den leader would bring the boys up, talk about the year so far, etc.  Took a minute or two per den.
- The graduation/moving up day involved face painting and awarding neckerchiefs.  If you were a participant that year, you get the paint for your current year and the next year.  Whether you earned rank was irrelevant.

In my mind, Cub Scouts is about celebrating accomplishments.  Reward those scouts individually when they accomplish things - rank advancements, awards, etc.  Graduating from one level to the next has nothing to do with earning your rank - so I wouldn't link it.  Celebrate the fact equally that all the boys are moving up to the next level.

Sounds like a great opportunity.  CC is a wonderful role.

I'm reminded that these are all just youth we're talking about here.  For the most part they all just want to have fun and be accepted by the people they meet.  The kids may have different backgrounds, but those backgrounds are mostly outside of their control - they come from parents, families, and communities.  

In other words, thr scouts may all come from different backgrounds - but when they get to camp they are just kids who want to have a good time.  

I fully respect and appreciate that we all want to raise our kids by the values we think important.  The challenge to us as Scouters and parents is to teach our kids how to enjoy each other's company, treat all the kids with human kindness, and understand that it is okay that we all don't have the same values.  Further, it's is completely okay for me to believe that my core values are correct, but still relate to all other Scouts as friends.

@xj-boonie Welcome to the forum!

2 hours ago, JustAScoutMom said:

There is no institutional knowledge within the troop.

 

I think this is they key difference - and one that explains many of the critiques of GS troops.

GS troops really can be just as strong and have just as amazing programs.  It's the rigidity of the BSA approach coupled with the institutional knowledge the established troops have the make the Boy Scout program appeal to many.  I'm convinced that if the GSUSA leveraged some of those concepts, they would grow quickly.

3 hours ago, gblotter said:

You have grasped the situation well. And you mirror my thoughts on this. It is a fine line. Support the boy, but still require genuine efforts from him so that whatever outcome has meaning in the end.

If you haven't yet, I'd have a open talk with the dad.  See if you guys can find a way to walk that line together.  

Tell the dad you'd like to challenge his son a bit so that accomplishing this means something to his son - in return, you'd like the dad to reinforce some level of participation.

Something like that.  

On 3/1/2018 at 2:27 PM, gblotter said:

His dad views Eagle as a way to lift the kid's self-esteem and instill a sense of accomplishment.

If I read this right, the dad this earning Eagle is good for him. I'm going to infer that the dad has latched onto the college application argument to motivate his son.  It appears to have had a little success, but not a lot.

If I'm right, you and the dad are walking a fine line. Push the boy too much and he gives up.

I think you support the boy here.  Will he get more out of Scouting if he gives up, or if he even puts a tiny effor?

I want to echo others here.  You get one Eagle project - don't rush it.  Give yourself time to enjoy it and do a fantastic job.  Your schedule sounds too aggressive for you to get a lot out of it.  

A different perspective...

It's the treasurer's job to manage the cash flow in the pack.  The committee/parents establish spending policy - i.e. can den leaders get reimbursed without prior approval.  But the treasurer ought to have the freedom to establish accounting rules.

So, in your scenario

- the treasurer is free to push back on "comingleing".

- the den leader is free to ask for a policy decision on reimbursements from the Committee

- if you think the treasurer is being punitive or arbitrary - as Cubmaster call her on it.  But avoid getting dragged into a discussion on comingleing - it's not you job to get mixed up in that.

We've always had workshops too. I can't imagine having a successful derby without one.  At first one, but now we hold two.  A couple of Saturday mornings from 9-12.  We'd get a few experienced adults to show new families the process. We'd also have a band saw, sander, and scale setup.  Boys could come with a new kit and leave with a car ready for paint.

In my opinion, they should be part of every pack's program.  An easy way to increase participation.

18 hours ago, JustAScoutMom said:

GS Day Camp for 2018 is $250-300, while overnight camp is $400+.  

Compare that to cub scout day camp, which is $85 (and includes a t-shirt), and you have got yourself a steal with BSA.  Those boys are also placed into smaller dens, based on rank.  They pull in over 250 scouts from the council.  They also pull in a LOT of volunteers, boy scout and girl scouts as well.  Probably 50 youth staff and another 75 adult staff.  And every single day, the boys are swimming, doing archery and bb gun.  Did I also say that if you as a parent volunteer, you get $25 off your $85 fee?  The biggest issue? Arranging carpooling, since its not in the kids backyard, as its at a real campsite.

Cub Scout day camp over here is meant for all boys to enjoy, regardless of income, where numerous siblings in one family can easily enjoy.  

 

Cub scout day camps in my area are all volunteer driven.  Yes - that are not that expensive, but the people organizing them spend months getting ready for one week.  They beg and beg for volunteers to help.  Ours is held at a local city or state park

Girl Scout day camps are more like BSA summer camps.  They are professionally organized and in my neck of the woods are staffed like summer camp - i.e., they have older girls serve on staff over the summer and they get a small stipend.  Around here, they are held at Girl Scout camps. 

So, I think it depends on what factors are important to a given family.  Cub Scout day camp is certainly more economical.  However, they've stopped holding Cub Scout day camp around here because getting volunteers is such an enormous task that no-one wants to take it on anymore.

8 hours ago, qwazse said:

Forgive me if this is redundant to my last post, but I want to emphasize that this is not a hill to die on!

True - fully agree - if that's where things are at.  I suspect that they are not.

@krikkitbotI'm guessing though that this isn't the big deal that you think it is.  My gut tells me that if you start talking about it you'll find that most everyone agrees with you.  Three months from now this will be done and you'll be off to your next challenge.

I see this as you coming along and saying - "hey, I've looked at what we're doing and think it would be better for the boys if they tent together instead of with adults."  Sounds pretty uncontroversial to me.  Again - I'm guessing most folks will just say - "hey, that makes sense to me too!"  If someone comes along and says "nope, no way, you've got not idea what you're doing."  My response would be - "no problem - if you and your son want to tent together go for it.  The rest of the boys will be tenting among themselves."  My guess is that it will take a camping trip or two for that scout to say "hey Dad, I want to tent with my buddies."

What I've seen in my short tenure is that most of the time families are happy to go along with whatever the Scoutmaster says.  Families put their sons in your troop because they have confidence in your troop.  So, now that you're the Scoutmaster that transfers to you.  As Scoutmaster you're going to have to make decisions like this pretty frequently.  It's just part of the gig.  Build consensus, don't be a dictator, but also make the calls you think are correct.  In the end, parents will follow your lead.

@OldEagle83 Welcome back to Scouting!  Glad to have you here too!

Was reading this over and think I noticed something new.

On 2/18/2018 at 12:13 PM, NateMom said:

When they put his to race it was only car that the wheels malfunctioned and his didnt make it down the track. 

I think this is the key thing to fix for next year.  In our pack each scout puts his own car on the track.  While doing that, he can do a quick check and make sure all is in order.  If a really minor repair is needed such as a stuck wheel - no problem. 

An adult is stationed at the top of the track, watches the scouts put the cars on the track, looks for any problems, and then starts the race when ready.  This has worked very well for us for many years and is very efficient.  It's also WAY more fun for the boys.

I'd fix that and you'll see this kind of problem go away.

16 hours ago, krikkitbot said:

Brand new SM but I was a ASM there for a long time.

Troop has been operating like this for years so some of these families have been around for a while. 

This strikes me as a time to be bold.  The way your troop is operating today is incorrect.  With you taking on the role of SM, you're the person to change this.  The best times to make change like this is at the beginning - people will expect it.

In our troop, my approach would be:

- discuss it with a couple of key folks informally - ASMs, CC, etc. Let them know what you're thinking and bring them into the discussion.  Don't change your goal - but solicit input on how to do it.  Use that to come up with a plan.

- at your next Commiittee meeting tell them your plan.   Be prepared to talk about why this is important.  Make a couple of adjustments if neccessary.

- announce to families.

- do it.

I'm late to this, but wanted to add the flavor that for the most part, these are not awards, but advancements earned.   These could be presented by anyone - the Cubmaster or Den Leader does it so that out feels more special.

On 2/25/2018 at 1:56 PM, qwazse said:

It is the Committee's job to support the Unit Leader as he/she delivers the program.

I would tell the CC that tails don't wag dogs, but as I'm watching mine, I'm not entirely sure that's true.

The BSA structure encourages this.  From the BSA's Pack Committee description:

"Every pack is under the supervision of a pack committee,...".  

"The pack committee chair leads the pack committee and thus is responsible for the administration, oversight, and support of the pack program."

It may not be appreciated - and indeed is something a CC needs to do infrequently, but if he/she thinks a Cubmaster is going in the wrong direction it's his/her job to say so.

6 hours ago, gblotter said:

However, I do tire of the attitude that true Scouting is only experienced by the few who have that secret decoder ring to unlock Bill Hillcourt's secrets of boy leadership. We all stand on the shoulders of giants, but Scouting is not that hard. We sometimes make it harder than it needs to be by endlessly reminding others that in spite of best efforts - nope, you're still not doing it right. Dare I say there is some virtue signaling in all this?

 

The problem isn't that Scouting is hard.  The problem is that we all seem to have different definitions of what it is.  

I see that inherent problem in the discussions on this page.  Benevolent drill seargant Boy Scouts is different from "long leashing" Boy Scouts.  They are both ways to run a youth program - sure would be nice though if our troop leaders were a bit more consistent.

I saw it in Darlene's initial post too.  There it really saddens me because new parents have no idea how little boy led there usually is in your typical troop.