ParkMan

Me - I'd just stick with having a big pack

Splitting any group like this is tough.  There are always some hurt feelings from families or leaders that go to the group they didn't want.

I'd just take a look at.how you manage your packwide activities.  You just need more planning and organization as you get bigger.  Bigger also brings more adults and more resources too to help you manage that.

Congratulations!  That's wonderful!

4 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

How does co-ed = "Family Scouting"? The two aren't mutually inclusive. Girls in a troop does not necessitate the whole family being involved. 

My point exactly. These are completely different things.

23 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Since this thread has been resurrected... 

 

This summer our district is holding Twilight Camp.  (day camp at 5:30 - 9:00 pm).  Its individual sign-up, we aren't doing it as a pack.  I have a Tiger, it will be after May 31 so he will be a Wolf by then.  My question is... If I am not staffing should I wear my uniform to that function or just go as a parent.

 

Also, I have finally gotten real BSA green pants with the official belt, haven't bought the socks yet.  I was quite (not sure what word to put here)... the other TIger DL showed up in jeans this afternoon which I was wearing as well up until last week.  What really bothered me is the knees of his jeans were torn out.  Really tacky looking.

Yes - I'd wear the uniform.  This is a district event.  You and your son are members of the BSA.  It is wholly appropriate for both of you to attend in uniform.

More importantly.  You're there with your son.  Seeing you there in uniform is a great example to him.  Go for it!

BTW - nice call getting the official pants.  I'm a believer that wearing the uniform correctly is a good example for the boys.  We all get to the full uniform at our own pace, but when you can acquire all the parts, I think it's the best example for the boys.  

My instinct is to put someone with that much enthusiasm to work in the pack.  However, I worry that he's more into being a Scouter than he is in being a pack volunteer.

I'm worried that he's going to bring unneeded drama to your team that may not be needed.  The "Paper Trained" patch bugs me.  I've got several adults in our troop that refuse to get trained, think they know it all, but really don't.  I hear the same kinds of comments from them - the BSA doesn't know anything, the council guys are stooges, etc.  It's not that they're bad people.  In fact, they're generally great people.  It's just that they're a little too cavalier with the program as a result. I'd welcome a bit more humility.

That said - I think I'd still try to build bridges to the fellow and find out how to get him engaged.  I think I'd talk to him about what he'd like to do in the Pack and see if you can find a fit.  I wouldn't sweat the title - Committee Member, ACM, whatever.  Figure out if it's possible to bring him into the team and leverage some of that enthusiasm.

I'm as sympathetic to the financial plights of councils as any, but an Eagle fee is just wrong.  You make it this far, there should be no fee.

Here's hoping they reconsider.

23 hours ago, LeCastor said:

Given that this change from OA regalia to no OA regalia is likely a done deal, what suggestions do you all have for making an impressive AoL ceremony for the Webelos crossing over?

I'm sad if this is true, but can understand it.

I was never an OA member.  So while the ceremony is impressive, I don't have an emotional attachment to it.

I think my instinct would be to capture the themes and pagentry of the current ceremony, but remove the Native American imagery.

4 hours ago, perdidochas said:

Training.

To that I'd add that your troop needs to have a defined program.  

Our troop is far from perfect.  But, one thing we have is a sense of what our program is and how we work as a troop.  The SM has a plan for what he's doing.  As CC, I have a plan for where we're taking the troop.  If some adults start showing up at committee meetings, troop meetings, or camping trips and starting problems, we'd all look at them and collectively say "what are you doing?".  I think the key to that is the core group of troop volunteers coming up with a shared vision for who you are as a troop and then going in that direction.  It may sound like I'm advocating adult led - I am not.  When I say "defined program", I mean things like - are you boy led, do you use patrols, what is the relationship of adults to scouts, etc.  The boys should be planning the troops operating activities and program.  What I'm suggesting is that higher level of who are you as a troop.

The other thing I'd advocate is for you and others to spend a lot of time explaining why you do things.  If a parent wants to clean his son's dishes, it's one thing to say "HEY, don't do that, we're a boy led troop".  It's another to have a conversation with that adult about how letting the scout do it himself is a step down the path of self reliance, confidence, and developing leadership skills.

Those are good terms.  

I'm confused though.  I've not heard of a "familization" change for Boy Scouts.

But, I'd think this is the wrong direction to go.  If you've got families on a camping trip, it's the time to show the troop being it's most responsible.  

You get to "show off" the program and get those families interested in helping.

Yep - I also don't see anything in there about throwing away Scout led or the patrol method.  I don't see anything about the end to backpacking or making Boy Scouts a family camping club.

The FAQ has:

Q. Will there be new curriculum for girl participants? Will you change the program to accommodate girls?

No. Our existing programs are relevant for young men and women. After all, the values of Scouting as outlined in the Scout Law – trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent – are relevant and important values for both young men and women.

"family scouting" is just another phrase for "adding girls".  It's a way of saying that all the kids in the family can participate, not just the sons.  It's a way to say that all parents can volunteer because all their kids can benefit.  It's not a way to say that Boy Scouts is now a family camping club.

Can someone please point me to the new leader's guides or training materials that has changed how the program works with respect to scout led?  I'm not aware of any.

As best I know, we're still as boy led as ever.  Sure, there's some marketing stuff about family scouting, but I've not seen any program changes at the Boy Scout level.

I cringe reading this because it feels like troops freelancing with the program.

We have a number of parents who teach classes.  Some of those meet before the troop meeting, some at a time convenient to all.   Most meet every couple of weeks for a couple of months.  This has worked really well - we normally have 8-10 such classes a year.

I think the key for us is that we almost never teach merit badges at a troop meeting.  

I'm the Committee Chair for a large troop.  In that role, I've seen the impact that well trained leaders can have.  To me, money spent training adults is money spent on the boys.

I could hope that council would make it free - but, I know how strapped they are for funds.  I don't mind building $10 per scout per year to cover getting leaders trained.  Money very well spent in my book.

Our council has always run trainings such that participants pay a small fee that covers costs, materials,  and a few dollars back to council to cover their administrative fees.  Fees typically run 10 to 20 dollars for basic position trainings.  More for things like IOLS.

I have never heard of scouters balking at the cost.  Most seem pretty accustomed to paying their own way.

Most units around here reimburse, but few folks submit the paperwork.

But even if makes are statistically likely to be abuse youth, doesn't the existing two deep leadership approach provide sufficient checks?  

I'll be interested to see how single sex dens end up working out in practice in these early adopters.  I'm assuming it will be a royal pain and we'll end up with coed dens all over the place.

I read it differently.  Two adults are needed.  At least one of those two must be 21.  At least one must be a YPT trained female.  

You could meet the requirement with just two people.

I think this sounds like a wonderful idea.  In my experience, objections to attending Wood Badge generally are either:

- lack of interest

- lack of time

- lack of money

You're removing one of those (money).  By increasing focus on Wood Badge, that can lead to improving interest.  More people attending means more people talking about it, more good stories, etc...

As for whether it will work - it's tough to say.  I think it depends mostly on the culture of your troop.  But, I think it's worth a try.

I think you don't keep it private.  If I read between the lines, I get the impression you're trying to promote attendance.  It will be less likely to serve as a promotion tool if no one knows about it.  Further, just because their attendance is funded doesn't have to imply anything about need.  Just that you see the benefit of attending and want to share that with others.  Our troop, for example, budgets enough every year to pay for one person to attend.  No one looks at it as a reflection of need - just that if someone wants to attend, they submit the receipts.  A couple of times we've had two people attend, but other years no-one, so it all worked out for us.  

The separate den policy is a challenge. Our pack has 60 boys and 8 dens today.

It's going to be tough for them to go co-ed. They will have to add at least 1 new den every year. They'll be 90-100 kids and 10-12 dems I'm no time. I'm not sure that's a good thing.

I think it's an exciting day.  Like it or not, this is a historic moment in the program.  We all have a front seat role for this.

My understanding is that they have no authority over the troop in this regards.

Your troop is a separate entity that simply pats an annual fee for the ability to provide the Boy Scout program to its members. They can't force you to pay more money like this.

They can certainly try to persuade you to do so as part of the council community - but that's different. The persuasion may feel like you're being made to do it - but it's just persuasion.

As I see it, the UC is a trusted advisor to the troop's adult leadership - particularly the key three.  

In this case, I think you need to find a way to engage with the SM & CC to let them know what you heard from the SPL, what you see in terms of the upcoming growth, and a recommended solution.

Put differently - I think you could find a way for the unit to function a bit better by going around the SM.  However, the real improvement is in getting the SM & other adult leaders on board with the real changes that need to happen.

Doing that is hard - but some quick thoughts:

1. Start with the SM & CC.  The SM because you need to get him aligned around the larger prize.  The CC because he's got the ability organizationally to help align other adults. 

2. Think of here is the phrase "strive to create a positive present rather than focus on a negative past".  The point here isn't that the SM is doing something wrong or needs to let go.  Instead, there's an opportunity here build for the future.  From what you see coming up, the troop needs to support a larger structure.  The SPL indicates he is ready to take on a larger role.  So - here's the opportunity to take a step in that direction.

3. There is probably a reason the SM is this hands on.  Figure that reason out.  I doubt it's because he's just relishes control.  I'm guessing that as a fairly new SM, he's trying to accomplish something  Figure out that reason - and then help guide the SM to a way to accomplish that through the SPL.

I really enjoyed my BALOO course

It was the best Cub Scout training I've seen.

I don't see the need for and overnight. In a typical pack, the person organizing the pack campout will have been around for a while. They'll know the basics of camping. It will be unusual for the organizer to have never camped.

The old material felt like the right mix. It reviewed/taught a few basics, covered of basics on planning, and shared some best practices.

Hi StevenB,

I've been thinking about your troop over the past few days.  Sorry in advance if this seems a bit preachy!  I just keep thinking about what I'd do in your shoes and this is what comes to mind.

What it comes down to me is that there are basically five key traits that I think a troop or pack needs to grow. 

- a fun program.  You need something that keeps the boys wanting to participate and talk to their friends about it.  My bet is you're OK on this one - but not all troops & packs are.

- a sense of friendship among the boys.  Scouts needs friends in the troop - or they lose interest.  Again, I bet you're doing this now.

- a good new scout recruiting program.  You need a system that makes it easy to include new scouts