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ParkMan

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Everything posted by ParkMan

  1. Guess I'd just say that some rules (like boys vs. girls in a den) is one thing. Don't bring a gun to a scouting event is another. I find myself in the weird position of feeling like I'm defending the BSA here. Feels to me that we want the BSA to enforce rules we like and then look the other way on rules we don't. Then when we get into a discussion about rules we then criticize the BSA and say they are inconsistent. Guess I'm just reminded that we're talking about a youth organization. They are not going to kick people out for mixing den or breaking some advancement rules. But, s
  2. Nameplates are optional. If you want to have a nameplate, the style is up to you. Most people either have the BSA standard one or have acquired one over the years which some significance to them. I see lots of Jamboree name plates. I've got a couple of Wood Badge ones I wear from time to time. I don't see a lot of sewn on name plates. It's less common. I'd say go for whatever you think is best. Sure, it may be different but there is a lot of variation here.
  3. Here's the process I suggested in that other thread for conducting a search: - two adults approach the scout and tell the Scout they have a reason to search the scout' s belongings - if the Scout objects, an immediate call is made to the parent and the scout goes home. - if the Scout agrees to the search, it is done in full visibility of the Scout. Any items confiscated are jointly acknowledged. - items are returned after the event. - if something is found of grave consequence a phone call is made to the parents and the scout goes home. This seems to me to
  4. I'm just restating policy here and describing how things work. I get that you don't agree with the policy. if you want to ignore that policy - that's your decision. That's how things get changed in most organizations. People ignore the rules, get caught, make it an issue, and then drive change. Or they get caught and removed from the organization. I guess it's a question of how strongly you feel about the importance of this issue.
  5. Laws are irrelevant here. We are all volunteers in the BSA. They can revoke our membership if we violate the rules of conduct for adult leaders. If the rules saw "No guns" and you bring a gun, the BSA can terminate your status as a volunteer. It's fine that you want to debate this - but the rules are quite clear here. No guns allowed.
  6. I really don't see the connection with school bag/locker searches and a search on a scout trip. School is mandatory and a function of the government. Scouting is voluntary and not organized by the government. They are different. If I were writing some guidelines on how to search a scouts belongings, it would go something like: - two adults approach the scout and tell the Scout they have a reason to search the scout' s belongings - if the Scout objects, an immediate call is made to the parent and the scout goes home. - if the Scout agrees to the search, it is done in full
  7. I'd email the registrar for the council he grew up in and explain what you're looking to find out. They may or may not have records back that far. Last year I went looking for my youth records. I moved as a youth and so was in two different councils. One council had old records and found my information. The other council lost all the old records in a council merger. In both councils the person I emailed was very willing to help me out.
  8. We have two primary methods we use: Mailing lists The communication mechanism of record is a series of Google groups. We have different groups for different purposes. The groups are "owned" by a Google account created for that purpose. For each of these groups, several people are made owners as well. This allows us to efficiently manage them and add/drop people as needed. Event signups We use Signup Genius to manage event signups. We have a central place that we keep links to all the different signups. Management of all of this is an Activities Coordinator function.
  9. The church is ultiamtely responsible for the financial and program operations of the troop. Sounds like they are micromanaging more than normal. But, they are well within their right to expect this kind of attention to detail. As @Eagledad elquently states - budgets are a way a Church Committee tracks whether groups are operating as expected. The trick as a troop committee is to provide enough transparency that the church trusts the Troop Committee to make the decisisions for the operation of the troop. Review the budget with the church. Show them that your Troop Committee has a fi
  10. My point here is not the this Scout deserves to be the first female Eagle Scout. My point is that all this posturing, rules, and artificial timelines is the wrong direction for the BSA. On this forum, we constantly talk about how 1st Class is so much more important than Eagle. Yet, there's no restriction on when we'll have the first female 1st Class Scout. Now we've got this goofy timeline of when we'll have the first female Eagle Scout. By National creating this timeline that are continuing to inflate the imprtance of this rank. Eagle is now so special that we've created an indealiz
  11. I'd agree. That council decided that her work completed in the Canadian Scouting Association warranted recognizing her with a rank of Life. People can say it should not have happened - but it did. That decision is done. Now that she is a Life Scout, she has to wait until October 2020 to be awarded an Eagle rank? From what I can tell, she's already 18 (or close to it) and asking her to wait means she'll be 19 or 20 before it happens. I imagine she'll be off at college and far from day to day Scouting when this happens. This seems like penalizing a youth for adult decisions. I though
  12. What I find interesting in this topic is the tradeoff between rules & the purposes of Scouting. We're discussing more about whether a Scoutmaster can search belongings without Scouts present than whether the Scoutmaster should. it strikes me that it's more beneficial to youth development for searches like this to lead to constructive action and not simply be about finding items.
  13. Because Scouting is a youth development organization. The often repeated phrase is "Scouting is a game with a purpose." The game is outdoor adventure. The purpose is youth development. Four of the eight methods of Scouting are: Ideals Adult Association Personal Growth Leadership Development Ideals - A scout is trustworthy. if a Scout is trustworthy, then why the do we need searches? Is a leader is courteous - shouldn't he respect the personal belongings of another and not search them without notice? Adult Association - Adult leaders, how they conduct the
  14. I'm not so sure we disagree. I, like you, would argue that the Scout needs to be present for that search. Further, I don't have much use for these kind of searches, but if a leader thinks it needs to happen, then they can have a search. Others here think a search of the Scout's belongings without the Scout present is fine. I, again like you, disagree with that position.
  15. I think everyone (well just about everyone) agrees that a search is fine. The issue is whether a Scoutmaster should go through a Scouts belongings without telling the Scout first and having him/her present.
  16. I'm comfortable to stipluate that an inspection is OK. I don't see any rights issues with a youth who is voluntarily participating on a trip being asked to present that contents of his locker. I'm quite OK that it can be done "on demand" so that the Scout doesn't have time to hide anything. I grant the Libertarians may not agree - but this seems quite reasonable to me. I tihnk you make the case well @David CO. What you describe reminds me very much of my childhood in the 80's. Locker searches were quite normal at school for that very reason. But again, I had a very different relatio
  17. Fair point and understood. I think ask just about any kid and they'd tell you that school administrators don't trust them. Do we want to create the same relationship between Scoutmasters & Scouts?
  18. You're mixing two different things @fred8033 was talking about the general case of whether troops should routinely do foot locker inspections before going to camp. I accepted his argument that if troops are doing locker searches routinely (and presumably without prior cause) then adults are telling the scouts - "we don't trust you". In the specifc case here - I agree. if the Scoutmaster has a reason not to trust then yes, inspections are warrated.
  19. We often talk about giving the Scoutmaster a lot of deference in how he runs the program. But, when you constantly defer to Scoutmaster, it makes situations like this so much more difficult. Then, when something like this happens, it creates a big, poltiical mess because people start lining up and choosing sides. Scoutmasters then feel attacked and second guessed. In my humble opinion - you give the Scoutmaster a lot of respect, but you need to have a troop culture where the leaders work as a team. Going through the Scout's belongings will be something that will parents will be upset
  20. My thinking was that if you need to do inspections, do them in the open. But - your point is well taken - an environment of constant inspections suggests a troop where the Scoutmaster doesn't trust the Scout.
  21. This sounds like a very good way to handle this. Have an inspection with the Scoutmaster & parents present prior to leaving for Summer Camp. The notion of a Scoutmaster privately going through a Scout's belongings seems like is destroys the whole idea of what we're trying to achieve in Scouting. It seems to undermine the adult association, personal growth, and leadershi skills methods. This should get escalated to the CC, Troop Committee, and COR. In my humble opinion - it's time for someone to have a heart to heart with the Scoutmaster.
  22. I've heard too many similar stories too. We consider a tire boot just part of the cost of having a trailer. Not having one is an open invitation to thieves.
  23. To be fair - the BSA'S membership challenges today are the result of changing expectations you adults and youth. They are further compounded by struggles packs and troops have in delivering high quality programs in the context of a more and more competitive world of youth activities.
  24. Sort of. The COR is not typically part of the approval process for unit activities. But, should the COR feel a need to act and make a decision, the COR has that right. The COR has whatever authority the COR feels he/she needs to have. They supervise the unit on behalf of the CO. If the COR feels that they need to micromanage the unit, then that is their decision and well within their authority. I think these arguments often confuse intent with authority. It is not the intent of the BSA system that the COR overule the unit. Similarly, it is not the intent of the BSA system that the C
  25. H @Liz, i found this in the Guide to Safe Scouting:
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