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ParkMan

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Everything posted by ParkMan

  1. I cannot seem to find a reference where she filed any lawsuits to become an Eagle Scout. I cannot even seem to find a reference that she filed a lawsuit ot become a member of the Boy Scouts. Best I can find is that she started a change.org petition and was the subject of several articles. Further, I can't seem to see anything where she's prioritized herself over the needs of others. I'm happy to be provided some sources that show this. But, let's say she did file a lawsuit. How is pushing for Scouting credit that she honestly believes she earned prioritizing herself over others?
  2. Myself, I'd prefer that the BSA not make a big deal out of the first female Eagle, setting dates and processes to prevent the first, or anthing related that. I tihnk doing so puts Eagle in the wrong light. I would really prefer a statement that the BSA will not track, report, or acknowledge who the first female is to earn the rank of Eagle. When I think of being an Eagle Scout, I think the honor come from the process of becoming an Eagle - not the act of completing the requirements. That any Scout completes the requirements and then waits a year or two seems rather sill to me. But, if
  3. I think I'm sticking up for her a little here because I think that is what is largely going on here. People dislike that she was challenging the status quo and that she had some role in co-ed Scouting. Food for thought - but your question is telling her that her Scouting experience is less meaningful than that of other scouts. Why do you think this? The council advancement committee signed off on her advancement from work in Canada as being equivalent. Second, she completed many (all?) of the requirements unofficially as a tag along member. Third, she demonstrated clear leadersh
  4. She spent summers in Canada. My understanding is that this is where she did Canadian scout stuff - not the Manhattan troop.
  5. You don't need to be a citizen of a country to be from there. Notice that the specifically don't say "youth who are citizens of another country and move to the United States." If you have a house in Canada, live there for several months, and then move back to the USA, then you'd be moving back to the US from Canada. There's nothing that says how long you have to reside ther to be cosidered "from" there. Just a broad "youth from other countries" who are a member of that country's Scouting association and who can show evidence of advancement in that Scouting association. In addition, th
  6. I read this and reached excatly the same conclusion. There is nothing in the G2A the prevents or discourages what Ms. Ireland did in any way. It may be a very unique, and I'm sure unimagined, applciation of the rule - but it's quite legit. What I also find somewhat hard to believe is that she joined Scouts Canada so that she could "game" the BSA advancement system down the road. It really seems to me like she's a kid that really just wanted to be a member of a Scouting program like we have in the BSA. I can't help but feel if she were a boy and was this passionate about Scouting w
  7. Sure - of course. Don't encourage a fools errand. But, I don't think that happened here. She had an idea to get some advancement credit for her invovlement in Scouts Canada and it worked. Clearly someone in addition to me thought it was a good idea. While we want to be as fair as possible, we can get ourselves hung up on "being fair." Is it fair that this one scout was so engaged in Scouting "unofficially" that she became a vocal proponent for a BSA program for girls? Was it fair that she was so invovled that when admission of girls to the BSA happened that she had all kinds
  8. To extend my prior comment: - The BSA has already said that tag along work doesn't count. So whie she and others may want it to, it doesn't. So, while I don't fault a Scout for asking, I'd have to simply that no, it doens't count. If enough people petition BSA national leadership, perhaps that will change. But, petitioning national leadership is the way to follow the rules & process. Not following the rules would have been to simply buy that patch and wear it - she's not doing that. - The BSA does allow for international experience to transfer. This seems to be a legitimate
  9. I think there's times in life to look at the big picture. The girl wanted to be a Scout her whole life. She couldn't do it offically, so she tagged along. She joined Scouts Canada. She did lots of learning and advancement work as a tagalong and as a member of Scouts Canada. I see her case is very different from a typical youth who shows up and says "Hey, I think I ought to be First Class." As a Scouter, I'd always listen to an argument like this from a Scout. I wouldn't fault any for trying to be ambitious. I think that's part of learning to be a good leader.
  10. I guess at this point I just prepared to take it at face value - she just wants to be a member of the BSA and participate in the program. The media spotlight so distorts things that I'm not going to form an opinion of a youth's character by what I see there. Maybe she's aggressive and wants to advance quickly too - and maybe even be the fist female Eagle. Even if all that's true, I'm OK by that. She's got some dreams and the pushes to make them happen. Not such an awful trait for someone to have. I get that we want her to go through the same exact process as others - but this is
  11. Yes - this would seem correct to me. Asking a Scout to wait 2 years to officially become an Eagle Scout just because of some silly "first female Eagle" designation seems to feed into unneccessary hysteria around the rank. Just award the girl the rank when she turns in the application and move on.
  12. My first reaction upon reading this was - huh? She's an American citizen. But, on reading a little more about her background and reflecting... Here we have a Scout who so loves Scouting so much that when she spent summers in Canada she joined their Scouting association. It reminded me of kids who transfer overseas and then join the local Scouting program. We had a Scout in our troop do that. We also have had a Scout from another country join our troop while living in the US. As I see it, at the end of the day, this is a program about helping youth to develop. Advancement is one
  13. Ahh - if that's the reason I'd very gladly welcome her to wearing it. That she was a Scout in Canada, earned such a recognition, and wears it with her Scouts BSA uniform is pretty cool
  14. RIght - it's this specific Woggle that is restricted. Any other kind of Woggle is perfectly fine.
  15. I'd imagine that there are lots of small troops. Regardless of whether you are paired with an existing troop or not, the troops for girls still need to do the outreach to get new members to join. It will take some time for troops to get to 20-30 members.
  16. All the math in this topic encouraged me to look back through our troop records. We don't track any of this stuff, but since we've been good at keeping advancement records online the info was all there. Also - we're a farily large troop (about 75 active scouts) and have had a pretty stable program for many years. This means lots of records to through On average over the past 20 years we've averaged: 20 new scouts per year 12 1st class Scouts per year 7 Eagle Scouts per year Average troop size has been about what we are now - 75 scouts. Every year about 15% of the
  17. Uniforming is one of eight methods. As with anything in life, when there are choices among multiple options - that's where priorities come in. As CO or as a unit, you get to set priorities. Where does uniforming fall in priority vs. patrol method? Where does it fall in priority to advancement? I can fully appreciate that as an IH uniforming is pretty low on the list of priorities. As a Scouter, I never volunteered because I was interested in promoting uniforming. No, uniforming was simply a tool to advance the larger cause. I can see how as an IH you're much more interested in
  18. I've not seen anything like that - a short resource for Scouters on how to keep older Scouts engageI I think this is either a really short resource or a rather long one. I think that @MattR nicely summed up the basic problem. In my experience the most obvious aspects of Scouting apply to early teen Scouts - advancement, outdoor program, etc. As Scouts reach older ages, they need more challenge and reason to stay involved. A troop program needs to provide things for those older Scouts that keeps them engaged. The things that keeps those Scouts engaged are not simply "fun" thing
  19. I'm not suprised to see that older girl advancement is like older boy advancement. Honestly, having a son and daughter about the same age that's what I'd have expected. I know there's a lot of sage advice on this forum that a lot of Scout development comes from being proactive and willing to learn and traverse the advancement process in the BSA. In our troop, we've always taken the approach of making sure that advancement is available to all those who show the willingess to pursue it. I think this is a very good thing. As a Scout, I was less comfortable tracking down adults to earn me
  20. I don't know if they have a superiority complex or not. One could certainly interpret it that way. It certainly does seem the GSUSA strategy is to try and elevate the GSUSA brand as the premier Scouting program for girls. They are trying to do it through exclusivty. I can't imagine it working in a case like this where it's about real families trying to find programs that are exciting for their daughters. Both the BSA & GSUSA can stand to learn from each other - just as all Scouters do. Our Cub Scout pack used to regualrly hold joint events with a Girl Scout troop and it was
  21. Hah - yes, I hear you! Really, the BSA doesn't define what "within 2 years" means. It could be the numerical integer approach, it could be literally born withing a two year period from the day that the Scout was born. I have to think that if the BSA really was that concerrned about 24 months vs. two numerical years, they'd say so. But, they don't. I myself suspect the discussion at National was something like "should it be two years or three years? Hmm, yes - two years it is. Ok, next topic."
  22. I do the 24 month thing, but if someone else did the two year number difference apprroach that would be fine too. In moments like this, I'm reminded that it's a youth organization and that there's such a thing as overthinking it. Really, ether approach accomplishes the intent.
  23. That's always been my answer to. Seems pretty straightforward and the math isn't too hard.
  24. Very sad. Local partnerships between GSUSA units & BSA units have been a great thing. In fact, I thought it was one of the best reasons against needing to expand Scouts BSA in include girls. The GSUSA making these kind of decisions seems like completly the wrong idea to me. From a marketing perspective, it seems completly backwards to me. This would seem like a great time to show strength by continuing to engage with the units in the BSA - show the world that girls don't need to join the BSA in order to have the occasional joint activities.
  25. It strikes me that this is the way to frame the conversation. That the BSA is proactively looking to determine a way to both responsibly compensate victims of abuse fullfill it's Congressionally mandated responsibilty to deliver the Scouting program to the youth of the country - both today and for decades to come. I've had some hope for a while now that Congress would get involved and create some sort of fund from which these sorts of claims would be paid. While I acknowledge that the BSA's mistakes contributed to the crisis - those mistakes happened well before the current B
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