ParkMan

I was involved in a crew for a little while. I found that the issue with the crew was that no-one really understood what the point was. The only value proposition I could find was that it was co-ed. 1. Venturing for the 18-21 age range was pointless. Everything changes when you go to college. 2. With very limited exceptions, everything that a crew could do a troop could do. 3. Crews are too small. Units less than 30 people struggle to exist because it's really hard for them to provide enough adults to carry out an active older Scout program. When you've got a crew of

Can you please remind me again how big your pack is? The strategy for a pack of 20 is different from a pack of 50. You need a strategy appropriate for a pack of your size. As Cubmaster you are program leader - not doer of tasks. You need to make sure there is a fun, engaging program for the Cubs. You can't do that when you're worried about the food for the meals, setup, cleanup, etc... In my larger pack, one of the best things we did was establish a parents camping group. It was a simple ask 6 months ahead of the next camping trip - "can you help me in coming up with plans for the

@Mrjeff - sounds like you feel that you joined the BSA because it ran a certain way. Now, you feel that the BSA has changed and no-longer operates as you feel it should. Is that correct?

Respectfully - I think you're reading this backwards. YPT isn't about the BSA making statements about you and your trustworthiness. YPT is a series of rules that describe good, solid practices for keeping kids safe. The BSA requires that we follow them at a Scouting event. The BSA is telling us that we really ought to be taking these same precautions outside of Scouting too. I wouldn't look at them as rules you have to follow because you are a Scouter. Instead because you are a Scouter, you are more aware of the issues surrounding child abuse. Because of that you know where to

We have to put this into the larger context. The BSA has these rules because of a reaction to the cases of child abuse in Scouting. The rules are the BSA's attempt to create a program with as many practical safeguards as they can. Yes, some of these rules also help in a CYA sense. More importantly they help create a culture where it's harder for abuse to occur, and if it does to go unnoticed. When we start looking at these rules as requirements - somewhat like tax code - we're missing the point. Following BSA rules because it's the BSA is not the point. Say you've Joe the AS

Similar story here. I looked at going to Scoutbook - but found that the online version of Troopmaster better fit what we needed. It cost us something like a dollar per scout per year so I didn't even think twice about it. But, if you switch I'd love to hear how it goes for you

Our council camps are free to use for units within the council.

We're treading in difficult waters here. It's really tough for me to argue what progressives will or won't do. My belief is that as long as Scouting is identified with promoting particular views, it becomes a target for one political group or another. The BSA promoting anti-progressive (aka conservative) views makes it a target for progressives. The BSA promoting anti-conservative (aka progressive) views makes it a target for conservatives. My point isn't that we should be actively organizing conservative or progressive packs - but that they will develop organically. As people

But it doesn't have to be so. At our core, Scouting is a fun activity for kids that gives them new experiences and adventures. Along the way the kid learns some self reliance and independence. The program is led by parents from withing our community which means it reflects the values of the kids in the program. If you look at it like that, there is very little that most parents cannot get behind. There is no reason to want to destroy Scouting. In fact, it is exactly the kind of supportive, nurturing environment that progressives want. The problem is that we all want to label

I don't agree that aggression and violence and natural and cannot be contained. What I do think is natural is a desire to compete and succeed. That's largely in our genetics. In order to eat, we need to be able to win the food gathering game. To win the food gathering game we need to be able to best nature and we need to be able to best any adversaries. In nature the rules allow for physical violence to succeed. In people, this is really guided by where we are competing. On the school playground, it's what can you get away with - including violence. In a bar fight, same thin

The problem in all of this is two fold: 1) Our standard materials and adult training lead to lecture/school approach. A volunteer needs to use some imagination to avoid this. 2) Some units are doing this well today. They know how to lead with adventure and make it fun. My takeaway is that this isn't a general condemnation of Scouting. Again - some leaders do this very well. But, for your rank-n-file leader it's too easy to fall into this trip. I'm not sure how to correct this.

This is where BSA training could really help. What are effective ways to handle advancement without it feeling like school.

I find it interesting that today brings news about the GSUSA council in southern Illinois selling all their camps. To the points raised by @dkurtenbach & @desertrat77. I concur. Yes, our purpose is the build character in and develop young adults. But, we cannot lose sight of just what our game is here. It does indeed seem that we often get too wrapped up in our purpose and lose sight of playing the game better. Our game is outdoor adventures and the patrol method. The attraction to youth is the quality of our game. Let's do those well. This again is why I'm opposed to top d

I just come back to a simple question - "what's the primary program of Scouting?" To use the BP quote "Scouting is a game with a purpose". What's their game? As this GSUSA council continues to erode their "game" in favor of funding experiences, they become less and less differentiated. Truthfully, my daughter's GSUSA troop shows the same symptoms. Their program has turned into an every two week's meeting with little other substance. They get together do some crafts, the older girls provide some crowd control for the younger girls. It all seems rather boring to me. I'm not

I agree with that quote 100%. If I were the BSA in Southern Illinois, I would start a focused campaign to recruit girls into Scouting touting the outdoor nature of the program. The GSUSA needs to understand that what you do in your program is what distinguishes you today. In 2020 people are focused on results - what will my child do in this group? Turning into just another group for youth without a core program vision is just going to turn them into another "me too" group. The high costs of maintaining camps. Why does it cost them $375,000 a year per camp? Council b

I don't - no. Running a large organization and leading a PR campaign are very different things. Leading an effective PR campaign means knowing how best to utilize the different media options available to accomplish the BSA's goals. A good PR person would have established media relationships as well. You want the CSE to be able to speak for the BSA, but absolutely should not be leading the effort. Most major organizations that do PR well have a dedicated PR staff. GIven the image and membership problems of the BSA, we really ought to invest here. I believe this is one of th

I think we have to distinguish between an advertising campaign and a PR campaign. An advertising campaign is a bunch of commercials designed to sell Scouting. A PR campaign could be a proactive effort to get out there into the media and talk about what they are trying to do. They could get spots on news talk shows, on the morning TV programs, etc. If the news is reporting it, now's the time to get out there and share our vision. I've said this before - the BSA ought to go out and hire a really good PR person to serve as spokesperson for the organization.

The BSA should be out there talking a lot more about what it is doing and why. The point isn't to blame those suing the BSA or to criticize those attacking it. The point is simply to explain and get the message out there. By doing nothing, the BSA is letting others define it. The BSA is doing itself more harm by not saying anything than by simply stating what is going on. If someone says - "the BSA should be punished", then engage in a conversation about how 1.5 million kids in the program today are paying to benefit from Scouting. If someone says - "the BSA should pay tho

Updated proposal based on feedback: 2020 - 1st half: National focuses on the national bankruptcy National conducts financial reviews of each council in the country. National identifies councils who are at risk of default due to reductions in membership or reductions in national support 2020 - 2nd half: Councils identified as "at risk" develop mitigation plans. National provides clear goals that must be met by local councils. National goals prioritize program quality and membership growth. National works with those councils to solve issues not resolvable by

@Cburkhardt - I fully respect what you're asking here. I want to keep the thread positive, but I'd be remiss if I didn't state my concern. Pardon in advance. Fundamentally, I'm worried that we have attached ourselves to an organizational model in Scouting that is not correct for the challenges of today. I'm worried that in a effort to re-organize after bankruptcy we rush to deploy a model that has not proven successful over the past 40 years. My concerns can be summed up in: The DE to Scout ratio is wrong. We have a ratio of about 1 DE to 1,000 Scouts/50 units. If a DE costs ab

@Cburkhardt - Maybe I'm missing something - but what do you see changing from National that will result in councils struggling financially and programmatically? Beyond things like employee support programs and some guidance on national program items such as OA, Eagle Process, Wood Badge, etc. I don't see a lot of impact from national at a program level in our council. Truthfully - I think that the program changes by national in the last 20 years could be never been done and I don't most of us would have noticed. New Cub Scout programs, changes to advancement, updates to YPT, online training

I'm sorry to hear about your poor experiences as a youth. I'm struck by the idea that experience is still experience - regardless of the quality of that experience. Now, you as an adult better understand the impact of a poor program. Today you clearly are an advocate for high quality programs. Myself, I still think you should wear the star - even if to be able to point to it on a occasion as a reminder of what bad Scouting really does to youth.

Lots of good points on this topic. I think a lot of this talk of merging councils is pointless without a vision for the future. If I were to offer an observation on why the BSA is struggling it's simple - we have to stop managing our way out of problems. The right way to chart a future for Scouting is to develop a vision for Scouting we can get behind. Let's figure that out first. Council mergers is way down on the list of important things to do. @MattR has hit on an important theme. The beauty of a bottom up structure is that it promotes innovation. The danger of a top down str

Good list. For the sake of this discussion, I am going to accept that there is another, district level, list which is separate. One item I'd suggest need not be a council professional: signing contracts for goods and services on behalf of council (with council board approval / delegated authority) This could be a volunteer role.

I could go with that - but I do believe we'd find a relatively short list. There are very few things that only a council can do that a district or that national cannot. Similarly, the only time you really need a professional employee is when specialized knowledge or dedicated focus is required. Accounting, Youth protection, fundraising, etc. - these all require specialized skills. For example, I see: councils: serve as focal point for all registration issues in the council provide advanced, council level training classes Oversee, develop, and coach dis