Old_OX_Eagle83

Eagle Dad you're correct, this discussion is getting way off base. This question is what should a SM do about a scout he said he does not believe in God during a SM conference for the Scout rank. Where things have gotten confusing is how to measure/judge these actions. The answer is actually in the questions. A Scout is Reverent. A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others. Yes, this scout is reverent. Read the words, tempered by the Oaths wording that Ill do my best. . . . To do my duty to God . . . Your

The distinction I'd make is a simple one. No one is to come to, and certainly not drive to/from, any scouting activity after consuming an alcoholic beverage. Not only are we charged with the safety, but also the guidance, of the scouts. What example we set, the scouts will follow. Set the adults straight, tell them dry on events, or find somewhere else to go. Drinking before an event is not okay. Drinking at an event, even if away from scouts, is a one strike and youre out in my book. Drinking after a scout event, is just that, after an event .

I wonder what this group will have to say on May 22, or do they plan of drinking Kool-Aid, Jim Jones style?

This remains a good read, with lots of interesting input. However, things are getting a little heated, lets stay friendly, and remember we are all on the same team here. The issue has been over complicated by loosing focus. Ultimately, the question is, whats best for this young scout, and how can the Scoutmaster best deal with this situation. In the long run the young man will be making decisions about faith, and practices, but at this time those choices are made by his parents. This program is designed to foster citizenship, and install values the program cant help a boy who is no longer a p

Satashi, scouting is filled with Parent-Child moments, but just like a patrol activity, this isn't one of them. The dignity, solemnity, and tone required to make the ordeal ceremony a deeply meaningful moment of transformation is quite difficult to create. I recall my sash being lifted from the huge wooden arrow we hung them on for ceremony, I heard the cloth slide across the wood, the fire pop, the crickets sing, and nothing more. Thirty years later I recall that exact moment with such detail, because of its careful crafting. In the shadows of the many venerable trees surrounding t

Welcome Paul, and thank you for your service. I hope having this resource available will help you get back into the groove.

The statement makes me feel good, and bad. Good because we're doing a very good thing here, and bad because we are not reaching enough youth.

BadenP, it's good to see a minister weigh in here. Your wisdom is what's needed. Lets help this scout, and others like him. Turning away from his need is the wrong thing to do, regardless of your own belief system.

Please keep in mind this is a BSA discussion. BSA only required a belief in God, not a specific one. There are many belief systems, BSA is not trying to say one is correct, that is the place of the parent and/or religious leader of the youth in question ... never our role.

This thread is a good read. lrsap, if you get the chance can you post how things are going from time to time? I think it would be quite educational. I've work many hats, but never the SM one, so I just reading and learning Good luck with the new troop.

Cool. My son is wanting to find out more about his history. I don't think we have an ancestor on the Dawes Roll, but he wants to find out about his Cherokee roots. He is currently making his own warbonnet. He doesn't have the patience for the fine bead-work. Now that he has been awarded the Vigil, he will likely redo his breast plate. The arrow is incorporated into the center strip with pony beads. jet526 Give your son my congratulations, the Vigil Honor is quite a mark of recognition, I can only imagine youre one proud papa about now. Honestly, being given the Vigil Honor meant m

Ive said quite a bit on this topic, but heres the non-biased, simple truth. Thank you for your wisdom emb021 Sadly, it seems that SOME don't get it that 'discouraging parents from attending' ==/== 'not allowing parents from attending'. AFAIK, *NO ONE* said or advocated not allowing parents from attending. The rules say that parents can attend if they so choose. And NO ONE is arguing it doesn't. But, the reason that peopld try to convience them not to by having a conversation or the like should not be seen as an issue or violation of this. The only valid reason parents

Thanks for the kind words jet526. I understand, and agree with your on the faux sashes. What I bead is a representation of the current sash, and am in large part beading a new one so that it will not display the legend, as I no longer have a reason to have it on my sash. For me the OA/Native American Lore, and history connection has a special meaning. My involvement in my lodge dance team, and ceremony team, caused me to discover my own Native American heritage, and unexpectedly my familys history in the region, including our roles in founding several cities, service in Colonial Militi

Ive not been back on the site for a bit, sorry If Ive not responded. Im not sure if any of the less than polite comments are directed at me, if so, sorry if I offended anyone. I was incorrect in policy on the point of beading, and do appreciate that being pointed out, as I dont want to misinform anyone, ever. In as far as rebellion, and disobeying uniform policy, as set out in the insignia guide, that is personal choice. Dr. Goodman wore a beaded sash until his death in 1981, I cant see when he first started wearing one, but I know he did as early as the 50s, the point is this was not a

This is all good, no down side, I fail to see how anyone is against the new trained leadership to recharter requirement. I can only assume those who opposed this change are the type who so strongly oppose change that they have to be made to flip the desk calendar to the next day. Change is the only constant

Sax, take a deep breath, and release it slowly. Youre way to wound up over this. Yea, Ive seen this, its old school spousal recognition, and in my opinion, a good idea. Wood beads as recognition is not unique to BSA, or owned by BSA. Im sure a CE is well aware of this, and isnt remotely concerned. Back in the day we used to make up all kinds of unique recognitions, and some continue to be given to this day. Yea, ok, there has to be a limit to local, non-official, awards, I agree. The line is a simple thing, only official items may be worn on the uniform. Now, in as far as The Book, its

Let me first say we are discussing Tomahawk throwing, which does not use hatchets. DO NOT TRY THIS WITH HATCHETTS. Yes, there is a safety concern here, and no BSA has not published a guide specifically for this, that Im aware of. Ive seen, and participated, in hawk throwing at BSA events. I see nothing wrong with it, if handled correctly. I suggest applying the same rules as archery, with the same type of setup, with two exceptions: 1. The target needs to be thick, and sturdy, a cross section of log on legs works well. 2. Spacing, scouts must not be lined up side by side, unless spaced quite

This is a fun one, I advise strongly against a knee-jerk reaction. Young men go through a period of questioning everything, its part of the healthy growth process, Id worry if it didnt happen. Ok, your scout likely had a bad experience he equates to his religious beliefs, in all likelihood. Maybe someone close to him passed away, he was forced to miss a ballgame to a church picnic, my maybe he was molested by a member of the clergy! Wow, heres a nasty spectrum of possibilities. The key here is your scout is upset, that type of answer is very strong, and that is not normal. Typically a you

The CO may appoint a COR which is not a CO member, and I can see a few reason's they might do this. However, once appointed the COR treats with the Unit, and BSA, with the authority of the CO. I can't imagine a CO placing that kind of trust in just anyone's hands. The easy way to understand all CO-BSA relationships is to look at them as a franchise relationship, that is not for profit. BSA offers the franchise, the CO agrees to it.

In bad taste would not even cover this. There is a time and place, an Eagle COH is neither.

Again we will have to agree to disagree. Im continually baffled by parents who sign children up for a program seeking the specific benefits it will bring their child, and then act to continually undermine the program. OA leader, no Im not at this time. Yea, I have been, having held adult and youth positions at nearly all levels of the order. I can only assume you are not a member, Im not saying that to be offensive. Theres an element of the program thats hard to put into words, and members understand it, having experienced it, you dont. This may be my fault, I assumed you were a member.

Females in the Order of the Arrow? Heres the thing: I started in Cub Scouts in 1974, I say Cub Scouts, as Tiger Scouts didnt exist then. We had Den Mothers, but the Cub Master , his assistant, and the Webelo Leader were Men. Hey, it was the 70s. Well the times changed, more single parent families, more working moms, women were soon seen in all the cub leadership positions. The late 70s, and early 80s were liberal, soon those female cub leaderss children were Boy Scouts. The moms in many cases knew scouting in ways the dads didnt, and with BSA exploring coed scouting concepts, despite a b

Secret, not really, thats an intentional illusion. The mystique lent by the air of secrecy is very attractive to boys, its just that simple. What an inexpensive, and effective, motivation. The biggest issue today is people undermining the order by trying to strip away this powerful illusion. If you are an adult, and want to know, ask. You will be given your answers; its that easy. Just dont ruin it for these young men.

SeattlePioneer, I respect you, and your opinion, but can't agree with you. I can't see the violation, the simple truth is just that. I will say education is a strong tool, and should be the primary item used to discourage. If you explain the why, most often parents will back off.

Thanks desertrat77, I'm glad I'm not alone in my views. I've remained mostly inactive in the order since my return, but just fired off an email to our newly minted advisor, who is gung ho about getting things on track, offering to help. I won't complain and not offer to help.