Laurie

Thank you Bob and Eamonn. This is now much clearer. Eamonn, my husband is working on the troop roster (how convenient ), so I already checked that the boys did get added to the troop's roster. They're there, but they're also on the pack roster. Your help is appreciated!

I'm attempting to answer some questions in pencil, preparing to review the paperwork with the UC (who is currently ill, so I'm cutting him a break and coming to you ). As of this month, the leader with the most tenure is a den leader who knows little of committee/charter/training issues that haven't related to his position. Quality unit: The CM for the past several years is moving on with his son to the troop, and I've been the CA. I have been asked to be CM, so we will have a CM but no CA. The form is confusing: stating "we will have..." with a box for this past year and another to plan next year has me wondering if we are quality or not. We had a CM and CA this past year, both trained, and we will have--assuming we can recruit one--a CM and CA this coming year. How do those boxes get answered please? When a boy listed on the roster bridges to Scouts, what is he considered? All the boys who bridged last year in mid-February should not be on our roster now, for they were made members of the troop prior to our charter renewal. How to address this? Dropped, transferred, or some other way? Same for a leader who was DL to Webelos who bridged and moved on to the troop with the boys--how to record this change? Leaders who are incorrectly accounted for on the roster--will their tenure in their current positions be effected by an error in the roster? How best to fix this? If you have any tips on how to best to handle the charter process, I welcome them. I've been given the honor of filling this paperwork out . I don't mind, but I want to do it right, and knowing the UC will help but is currently ill and then has limited time, I'd like to make the best use of that time. For, no surprise I'm sure, I do have more questions for him that are more specific in nature to our unit. TIA!

I thought that within a pack the required adult positions consisted of CR, CC, CM, 2 MCs, and DLs for each den. I also thought the CR could sometimes be the same person as the IH, but now I'm not sure and I can't put my hands on a particular reference. We just got our charter renewal packet, and we have until Feb. 7 to have it turned it. This looked easy until I saw the list of required adult positions. Is the following correct? If so, we will have trouble, for we sure had a tough enough time getting any adults to begin with: CR, CC, CM, CC, DL, TL, WL, CA, Pack Trainer (not one of the MCs), IH We will be sitting down with the UC, but for now, we've got to get a move on this because of the numerous corrections needed for the roster and the potential to have to recruit. Thanks!

SR540Beaver, the course (yes, it was all one course) was offered to anyone interested in training for SM, and it was only a couple months ago. He is now considered trained as a SM. Neither of us ever knew the name of it, and to be honest, it can be awfully confusing trying to figure out which training is for what. Bob, it very well may have been a course that was retired. What is neat--IMO anyway--is that my husband loved it (not just the course but meeting other SMs) and it helped to build his confidence. Bob said: "Remember that it's not about how smoothly the troop runs but how much the scout learns and develops in his character." What a timely comment. This past week has been rough relating to Cubs and Scouts, and several people have wanted to talk to me (not sure why me though). One leader said something that led me to make this comment: if it's ok for the boys to fail, and to do so safely and learn from it, then why shouldn't it be ok for the leaders to do so as well? If a leader has not harmed anyone or blown off the program to do his/her own thing, then failure can be a learning experience--a new beginning or starting point rather than an end. IMO, what we all do is to help the boys to grow and learn in a safe environment; sometimes the leaders and parents need to learn too. Am I wrong? Neil, that ages and stages video was good and helpful. I happen to have most of the training materials (books, videos, handouts) at home, and periodically I review a section. This one might be good for all the families to see in the Webelos to Scouts transition time. It's so hard to be a mother and not "mother" the boys. Do you know what has made a difference for me? Being in uniform. I don't mother then, and it's because I am in a very specific role working alongside the boys or guiding a program for them. Though I've come to know several boys in the troop (their ranks and goals, their struggles and strengths, their desires and disappointments--such a privilege), I've had no role in the troop this past in spite of being registered and available. Training is fun to me. I've been labeled odd by some for saying this, but training brings the program (whether Cubs or Scouts) more to life, enabling me to grow in confidence at times and confirming that I've got the right idea at other times.

hops--not in our papers. Maybe the answer to my question will help someone (oh, you maybe? ) to get the Scouts into the paper as well as the Cubs. I have seen very little, usually just Eagle Scout announcements. There is so much more, and saying this is not meant to minimize Eagle in any way.

I've had some major frustrations in the past year, but I've been pleased to see that when I take time to communicate (1) the frustration to the appropriate people in a calm way, and (2) send thank you notes often to acknowledge simple as well as big helps that I'm getting to know the pros so much better. It's nice to see that we have really good people in place, most very helpful, and that once you know what to expect, who to talk to, how long to wait for a response, and the like that a nice solid relationship begins. I have vented here and questioned here about how to get along with district and council volunteers and pros alike (particularly the pros--they're harder to get in touch with), so I figured it was only fine to sing their praises too Yes, I do still have some problems, particularly relating to records, but overall, with a little time, a lot of patience, and a willingness to acknowledge and thank others for what they have done, things get better. Thanks to the many here who have advised me on who to talk to about what as well as providing some insight to the professionals' roles.

I've been remiss in not welcoming you to the forums. Welcome! I've a question: what types of stories is the media interested in? It seems that unless it's tragic or controversial, it's not newsworthy, so how does a "good news story" (ordinary Cub events for instance) become newsworthy? TIA

My husband recently took SM training, and here's what they did: Training started by splitting participants into patrols. Training was held three separate nights, each indoors. What was taught during the indoor sessions was put to use on a tent camping trip, organized by patrol, with the men planning their menus, securing equipment needed, etc--just like a troop camping trip. Cub Scout New Leader Essentials and Position Specific (CM for me) again did not address the outdoor program other than to say it existed. There were no patrols, but positions were trained separately--like den meetings is how I view it (a different group for each age = a different group for each den leader). Most of what we learned was geared toward the pack meeting and administration. For outdoors, I took BALOO--loved it, highly recommend it. Then I went to Powwow, and that was very hands-on, and most of it was silly (songs, skits, crafts--think of being a grown up kid in a den or pack meeting). So, in a nutshell, what we learned when we compared notes was that for SM training, he learned how to organize the troop (big emphasis on patrols) and how to camp. I learned how how to organize a pack and a pack meeting. For outdoors, I needed supplemental training. I think the training was great and entirely appropriate (and it helped that we each were active for a few months before training--we knew what to ask ), and since I've not taken Webelos Den Leader training, I don't yet know if there is a training that helps leaders go from CM to SM (or some other Cub role to Scout role) smoothly. Who else can add to the comparisons? I'd like to hear more about the Cub training, the Scout training, and how to best prepare for adult transition to Scouts when the time comes.

This begs a new thread Gotta run, but I'll get it going unless someone else starts it--maybe in the Open Discussion forum?

goodoldeagle2: I wonder if is already covered in Webelos Den Leader training? Anyone know? That would seem the place for it to happen, considering it's a transition time. If not, I vote for a training to help us make that adjustment. I have taken Webelos Den Leader Fast Start, but all other trainings were geared to CM or were supplemental in nature. This is a hard transition unless it is clearly understood (something I'm still working on understanding as I assist our Webelos II den). It's been hard for our den leaders to go from Cubs to Webelos, and Webelos to Scouts is even greater a transition. One thing is certain: I took CM training and my husband took SM training--they were SO different in every way!

As a new Scouter, my biggest problem was getting information. I was asked to register in a unit, but I was not given anything to do. I have asked periodically if there are ways in which I might help (other than fundraising or outings--I'm involved in both with Cub Scouting right now--and I did say this up front prior to registering), and there's been nothing to do. I guess I just don't know where I fit in. As a parent to a new Scout, my biggest problem has been getting information. Hmmmmm.... Seriously, it is not unusual for a camping trip to be planned with only two weeks' notice, and that is hard when there are other things that we do outside of Scouting. Also, I hear things that take place that concern me, for they don't seem appropriate for Scouting. Knowing how to tactfully address issues within the troop that effect my son is tough. As a new Scout, my son found his biggest problem to be a lack of patrols (he identified that as something that sounds cool but that they don't have) and some of the older boys who smoke and curse. All of that said, I feel that I should say we all love Scouting, think the SM and other leaders are very committed to doing their best in all areas, but understand that the unit is not perfect...just as we aren't.

I'm quite comfortable in the position of Assistant Cubmaster because I can help but don't have to be the one up front. Then the CM couldn't make it for a couple pack meetings, and the CC appointed me to emcee those meetings. If someone isn't sure they can do it, let them have a "trial run", giving them all the assistance needed (program helps, your ideas and your hands-on help) and they may be pleasantly surprised. I went from "I don't think I can do this" to "this can be a lot of fun". To be a part of leadership is a privilege to me, and to be the one up front leading silly songs and introducing dens coming up for skits and slowing it all down for ceremonies--it's fun as well as a privilege. You get to see something from up front that you don't see from the "audience" for lack of a better word: the reactions of the families. So much can be learned about them during this meeting, and I felt as though I knew the boys better after just one meeting--just by their reactions. It is a doable position, one that once tried and has support (support is key IMO), does not have to be a chore. The CM, den leaders, and committee members all were solidly in support of me, knowing that I was nervous, and the more they encouraged me (thumbs up during the meeting, a tap at the watch to remind me to check time, a smile and nod during an activity, that sort of thing), the more I relaxed and enjoyed what I was doing. Good luck!(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Congratulations ManyIrons!

Cradle of Liberty Council held Powwow 2004, theme Wild Wild West, yesterday. This is the first time that I've been to one, and I went with two other leaders from our pack (their first time to attend too). We plan on going next year, and most likely we'll double our pack attendance; once those who missed it hear about it firsthand, they'll want to go too. CoL did a great job of pulling this all together, and with the opening and closing ceremonies, the prizes awarded, the games, the songs and skits--it was like one huge pack meeting that council put on for the adults! In telling my husband about it, he said it sounded like an event designed for big kids. However, fun that it was, I brought home a lot of cool new ideas, resources, a patch that I need to get sewn on ASAP (the boys will ask how they can get this; I'll have tell them to stay involved for the next 10 years or so and become leaders--too early to recruit?), and overall felt better equipped as a leader.

So, SR540Beaver, I take it you like your gas fire? Mine is growing on me, and it sure was easy to turn it on and turn it off today while I needed extra heat in the house. Our remote is now referred to as the phaser, and I think of my fellow Scouters when I pass the fireplace .

The boys in our pack LOVE when the Boy Scouts come to meetings. It started with one older sibling who is a Boy Scout and has begun helping one of the dens as Den Chief. He loves what he does, is always in full uniform, and so we have him involved in every pack meeting. That has led to my older son deciding to at first just go the pack meeting, but then to go and in his uniform. The following meeting, a third older Boy Scout sibling attended...in uniform. As they come in uniform, we always ask our Boy Scouts to come on up and give us a hand. They are actually looking forward to the next meeting! The really cool thing in all of this is that the Cubs are now seeing and getting to know Boy Scouts, and they are just in awe of these older boys. If they didn't come in uniform, noone would know they were Scouts. Also, two of the dads who recently became part of the troop at the CO come to the pack meetings now in uniform. There is no confusion as to who leads, but they are called up front to lend a hand too. Recently the 3 Scouts and 2 Scouters, all in uniform, provided guitar music and song leading; it was really neat. And no, they did not come as anything other than family, but they are proud of being in Scouts, and so they wear their uniform. It has been nothing but positive.

Thanks for the laugh! You did it--you helped me discover why my husband likes this so much. He's a Star Trek fan, and now he's got his own phaser

We purchased this home two years ago, and among the features that sold us on it were a fireplace, a large cleared yard with a small wood and a creek at the outer boundaries of our property. Our son lost no time in earning his Fireman Chit so he could make a fire circle in the wood. My husband chopped firewood from trees that toppled to light the fire in our fireplace with its woodburning stove insert. Today my husband is thrilled but I am having a hard time getting used to the constant hiss the pilot makes, the "heat" smell rather than woodsy smell, and the...get this!...remote control that is used to light it. It's not exactly what I like in a fire--effecient and clean yes, but I miss my real fire already (not a complaint, just missing it more than I thought I would). Guess it's time to spend more time out back using the fire circle

To call someone by the name they prefer: that has me wondering. Would you think I'm teaching my children to be rude by asking them if they could still use Mr/Mrs as this is what they are taught to do to be respectful? I'm not arguing; I'm truly wondering. Interestingly enough, noone has has a problem with at least Mr/Mrs plus first name as opposed to the more formal Mr/Mrs plus last name. They seem to appreciate it, so much so that these are the people that praise our boys' manners. With this same thought in mind, that of calling people what they prefer to be called, I make it a point to ask all boys that I meet what name they would like me to use. It is one way I show respect to them. Twocubdad gave the example of his using middle name; that's an excellent example of this. I know children who do this. We have--to pick a name--a Timothy who prefers Timothy and another who prefers Tim. My children each have names which can have nicknames, and they just hate when someone calls them a name they don't care for. They have learned to politely say that they "prefer the name ______ please", and likewise, we know that as parents we may need to allow them to call some adults by a first name even though we ourselves don't care for that. Sorry--that got long-winded, not my intent, but I think respect from and for the youth is important as well as for the adults.

I'm only 40 (can't believe I'm saying only), but I am offended when youth call me by first name, particularly if I have not asked them to (and I've never asked them to yet) or if I have not been introduced to them by first name. It was drilled into me as a kid to always use a title, and I personally think it is one of the easiest ways to show respect. If someone should ask me to call them by their first name, I do so. The adults in the troop my son is in call one another by Mr. or Mrs. too, for the most part anyway. As for adults who want children to call them by their first name, our children have been taught to respond that their parents want them to call them Mr. or Mrs., but if they may call them Mr. John or Mrs. Laurie, would that be ok. It usually is. So, there's my opinion and a half

NeilLup: No, if someone wants to be trained prior to registering, they won't be turned away. I learned that recently when someone was unsure of whether they wanted to join or not, and training would have helped them to decide. Youth Protection is on-line through council, so anyone can take it--and we encourage everyone, leader or not, to do so. Fast Start is not provided to my knowledge, but as a pack we purchased the video for anyone considering leadership or for leaders who wanted a refresher or who are changing roles. I'm using it with our Den Chief, for training is not offered for Den Chiefs until the summer. I'm not sure of the reasoning behind being registered for training. It is common to have leaders register and need to wait close to a full year for training because it isn't offered very often. So, if they had to train first, we'd lose a lot of leaders. We can count on once a year for the basic training, but we have learned that the spring training tends to get cancelled. This is for Cubs, by the way. For Scouts, there is far more training; there are also far more trainers. And, as far as checking records, I have tried numerous times--via phone, e-mail, and certified letter--to verify my own registration. After six months of trying to do this, I have a wallet full of training cards but still no membership card or verication of membership. IMO, it would be a plus to check on it even if not to require it--but then I have an ulterior personal motive mk9750: excellent point! I think in terms of Cubs, but my husband actually chose to remain what is referred to as "only a committee member" in order to sit on BORs. Committee members in the troop must be registered to sign on a BOR, so that's a good point. They are pretty significant people when it comes to advancement alone.

Glenn: one of the many benefits, IMO, is that only registered leaders may take training in our council. It is free of charge, is led by some awesome volunteers, and is material that I find useful and highly recommend--as often as I get the chance to In fact, one of the things that I have used to recruit leaders is that council requires registration for training, and the training alone is worth $10. Scouting Magazine, insurance, the right to wear the BSA uniform--these are other benefits. NeilLup: One reason we hear for leaders not wanted to sign up is that they don't want to have to wear the uniform! Funny thing though: when I got one, 2 other leaders checked it out (what patch is this or that, where do I get this, etc) and are uniformed too. And better still, the boys are seeing the adults in uniform, and then they are showing up in uniform too. So, the argument about uniforms doesn't wash with me--but it's out there.

My son's favorite things during his first few months of Scouting: Totin' Chit. The SM assigned a couple of the older Scouts to teach the skills to the new boys who bridged into the troop. One week was the proper use of, sharpening of, and care of a pocketknife. They made fire starters for an upcoming trip. Another week was the saw, and they put it to use in the wood behind the meeting place cleaning up. And then the ax, and I believe they prepared wood for a fire. At the conclusion of all of this, the SM had each boy demonstrate his newly learned skills. Fireman Chit. The SM assigned older Scouts to teach this as well. The boys loved building fires. This was very hands-on, and they were able to help with fires at the very next camping trip. Camping trips are the other hit.

NJCubScouter--yes, Boys Life still has the True Stories of Scouts in Action. It is my youngest son's favorite feature. The oldest reads it and says "awwwwesome" -- high praise indeed No, my husband wasn't expecting those answers, but then he's just the kind of guy who would love to create gory and gruesome injuries. As for the simpler kind, which are also important, he'll do it. He'll find a way to inject humor into that too. By the way, a word of caution. I learned we had a Webelos who had a weak stomach. Poor kid--he's not ready for Bob's version of First Aid yet! All we had done was to go over the pages in the Webelos book to get a sneak peek at what they were going to do the following week.

Thank you so much. I've been trained in first aid and CPR, but it's been awhile and some is fresh, most is not. At the top of my list of things to do is take a first aid course; Powwow offers one this week and I'm on the list. Having been injured and in accidents, and having worked in a hospital as a volunteer to see if this would be a good field for me, I can't stress the emotional impact of any first aid related item enough. It is, and Bob you said it well, imperative that we know how to do what needs to be done without panic. Discussion won't cut it. Thanks for the practical ideas and for the reasons behind "show" in this area. You've made a good case that I look forward to sharing. By the way, my husband is standing over my shoulder grinning, saying ok that he's got to actually see the boys do things