Kudu

Here is an excerpt from Michael Foster's history of the British Boy Scouts. Over the years I have tried to contact him for a written reference to Baden-Powell's use of the term "outlander," as well as information about the origin of the "Outlander Promise," but I have been unsuccessful. If anyone knows him, or if you know if Ian Nicolson or Roy Worthy are still alive, perhaps you could step in and help solve this mystery in the history of Scouting. The British Scout Federation / The Outlanders At the beginning of 1978 Ian Nicolson (1st/2nd & 6th Hampshire) and Fred Torr (2nd/3r

Well, statements like "I suppose I could set myself up as some sort of Scouting Guru, write a new set of rules and regulations and hang out my shingle," speculate on personality, rather directly addressing the merits of Baden-Powell's Scouting methods. Still if I go and ask for a Baked Potato, which as far as I know McDonald's don't serve, they will not be able to help me. I don't like fried burgers, but McDonald's really does make the best fries. If Congress granted them a monopoly on the term "Baked Potato," then all baked potatoes would be fried :-/ The idea that kids arrive

However if I was unhappy with the uniforms and the programs of the BSA, I suppose I could set myself up as some sort of Scouting Guru, write a new set of rules and regulations and hang out my shingle. Be sure to add "Produces Scouters who make personal attacks" to the list of "What's Wrong with the BSA." :-) The "Traditional Scouting Movement" dates back to the 1960s when Scouting membership went into decline. All around the world, marketing gurus in WOSM Scouting associations began to dramatically rewrite the program as it had been set up by its inventor Baden-Powell (or William Hi

What I don't understand is why the wait? Well, golly gee Eamonn, how long does it usually take you to organize something like that? My primary interest is in looking at Scouting from a wider viewpoint. Baden-Powell's model of how to do Scouting provides a different perspective because there is no record of that ever having been done in the United States. Of course I would also love to see someone organize a Traditional form of Scouting based on William Hillcourt's pre-1972 methods :-) Traditional Scouting is usually defined as being true to Scouting as it was practiced in the e

What do you do with parents who complain all these "new" clothes are too expensive and cant be borne by the family budget? Try a "New Scout Patrol Thrift Store Caravan." Spend a Saturday afternoon driving the new Scouts from thrift store to thrift store looking for $3-5 boots, jackets, fleece sweatshirts, non-cotton pants, etc. In our area, thrift stores do not feature seasonal differences in clothing, so the selection of winter clothing is much better in the warmer seasons. I like my expensive high-tech stuff, but for demonstration purposes I have a complete wardrobe of thrift

The practices from the olden days are interesting from a historical perspective. What relevance the old ways have on the operation of today's troop is questionable. Has every WOSM organization discarded Baden-Powell's Patrol System? In the USA, if the old ways are not relevant to the "operation of today's troop," then we should not misquote the authors of the old ways to prove that the new ways are based on the old ways :-/ Go with what is, not what used to be. Hopefully we will soon have an alternative to the BSA for those who choose to operate today's troop on Baden-Pow

modern processed wool is not "scratchy". That depends on your sensitivity to wool. I have tried different brands of "smart wool"/acrylic blend socks, and even with sock liners it is like slipping my foot into a bee hive. Always let your Scouts know that heavy duty 100% acrylic socks are available in good outdoor stores. Kudu

The quotes attributed to Baden-Powell are incorrect. B-P knew a few things about Scouting, and he believed that Troop leadership is best appointed by the Scoutmaster. The assertion that in the BSA, the Senior Patrol Leader has always been elected by a Troop election is also incorrect. William Hillcourt also knew a few things about Scouting, and in his system, "The senior patrol leader is elected by the patrol leaders' council. His appointment is authorized by the troop committee on the Scoutmaster's recommendation" [scoutmaster's Handbook 1968, page 51]. Hillcourt also recommended th

My question is how do you take a troop from where this one is to boy-led and using the patrol method. I can see how its supposed to work, but I have a hard time seeing how to get from here to there The quickest short cut to the Patrol Method is to physically separate the Patrols AS FAR AS POSSIBLE! If you live in the north, this is hard to do in the winter if you camp in cabins, but separate Patrol lean-tos can work very well! SM is well trained, either doing or instructing WB If in your area they separate Patrol sites a good distance during Wood Badge, then separating yo

It is important to change clothes including underwear, before getting into your sleeping bag. If they change their underwear after getting into their sleeping bags, all of the muscle movement will help warm up their sleeping bag. Damp poly-pro left inside the sleeping bag will dry out during the night. Kudu

Where are you located? Here in Western New York, most boys already own "snow pants." They can also be purchased at thrift stores for about $4. These days the thrift store racks are full of $3-$4 fleece sweatshirts. If you are going to be outdoors for an extended period, a pair of non-leather insulated boots is the most critical article of clothing. These are cheap in thrift stores too. In our area, thrift stores sell winter clothing year-around, so there is a bigger selection in warmer weather. Sometimes we arrange a Saturday "New Scouts Patrol" caravan of automobiles and drive from

I agree with Hunt and Eagle74, and would suggest that most people just want to know what to do at next week's meeting :-) However, theoretical discussions about "semantics and terminology" can be useful as well. For instance it was suggested that the methods don't reinforce each other, and aren't even related other than they are both methods. But indeed "the world is not black and white like the printed word." For instance: "What do you guys do when only one or two members of a patrol are able to go along on a particular campout?" To me, from the Patrol Method point of

The scout Methods are a theory? Only a theory? Where is that taught? More importantly, where is the "Eight Methods" theory not taught? The answer is that no other Scouting association in the world teaches the so-called "Eight Methods," and for 75% of its history, the "Eight Methods" theory was not taught in the BSA either. The Methods of Scouting are merely a theoretical model of how Scouting works. In other words, a way of organizing the program elements. Or as Hunt writes, it is an overall approach, shaped by certain rules. I would add that both Methods and the specific rules chang

The Methods of Scouting are only a theory of how Scouting works, so all such discussions are theoretical and purely subjective. In reality there are 38,000 different versions of the Eight Methods. When we talk about Methods of Scouting, we are revealing our values. Some people value absolute obedience to authority, and so they talk about "following" the Eight Methods. On the other hand, the Methods can be viewed as being merely descriptive. Eamonn, have you ever heard of the "Eight Methods of Scouting" in the UK? My guess is that you haven't, but some Brits dare to call it "Scout

My point exactly. This thread reflects the fact that the current BSA uniform is the mirror image of what a Scouting uniform should be: it is a symbol of values rather than an icon of outdoor adventure. As long as the shirt is washed (a Scout is clean), candle wax from the memorial service of a National Jamboree on a shirt worn to a campout should be a mark of experience: a badge of honor and distinction. Kudu

Creating an environment where Scouts will wear it is a test of leadership. Creating a uniform that the Scouts can wear in the outdoor environment is a test of an association's leadership. The solution is obvious: rename the "Uniform Method" the "Blind Obedience Method," and find some other meaningless rule to impose on the Scouts. Maybe a bad haircut. Design a breathable nylon outdoor uniform but forbid Scouts from wearing it indoors. You would then have a real Scout uniform and a real Method of Scouting. While you are at it, get rid of "Personal Growth" as a Method. It

William Hillcourt said that all real Scouting takes place in the great outdoors. It is interesting that nobody has suggested wearing old uniform shirts on campouts! It just shows how divorced the so-called "Uniform Method" is from real Scouting. Kudu

I don't see what the big deal is. But I would like to see all of the old requirements brought back :-/ The best advancement requirements are those which the Scouts already do naturally in a good program. How difficult this is for a Scout probably depends on his social skills and self-confidence. Our Dragon Patrol of class clowns just added another Scouts last night. That makes 13 active Dragons and about five inactive. It helps when a Patrol all hangs out together after school, since it is not much of a secret that they all disappear at the same time once a month for an en

Yeah, currently, there is no patrol identity. The only thing the Troop does as a patrol currently is for a short period right after the opening, they get together to take attendance and dues as patrols. Try a Troop campout contest where the Patrols compete to set up the Patrol campsite most hidden from the others. The further they are from each other, the more independent they will need to be, and the more valuable a good Patrol Quartermaster becomes. This is also a good opportunity for friends and brothers to decide in which Patrol they want to be. Kudu

I'm with nldscout and FScouter. It doesn't take many exceptions of convenience to erode Patrol identity. That whole question could be solved by putting brothers in the same patrol, however, that seems to be discouraged in most Troops. Who exactly is "putting" brothers in different Patrols, and who exactly is "discouraging" one "policy" or another? You say that you have "two adults going along, hanging out at the fringes" of Patrol outings, which suggests that you are letting the Patrol Method do its thing. If adults are deciding which Scouts go in which Patrols, then you should co

Eamonn writes: If I did misread or misunderstand what you posted, please accept my apology. Apology accepted. Likewise, I apologize for the fact that my style of putting things in perspective is so easily misunderstood. Another Forum Member inspires hysteria by quoting only parts of sentences out of context. This is reminiscent of political religious fundamentalists who believe that the answers to every issue can be expressed in absolute terms: there is only one right way of doing anything, and everything else is morally wrong. The problem is that such people tend to misrepr

Bob White writes I think Eamonn's original post was dead on. You like Eamonn's posts because he repeats your misquotations without checking the original sources. Scouts learn by doing. Kudu

Indoor Recruiting: As the philosopher Bob White once noted, the reason that most boys don't join Scouting is that nobody ever asks them. The following indoor presentation works very well. I usually get half of an assembly of sixth grade boys to sign up as interested in joining Scouts, including a good number of former Cub Scouts who hated scissors and paste and never made it to Webelos. It is designed as an in-school presentation during school hours, but it will work in most other indoor youth venues: http://www.inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm Don't assume that all public

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THE #1 ANSWER as to why they weren't scouts... Because no one ever asked them to join. I'm with Bob White on this one! I can usually persuade half of a sixth grade audience to sign up as wanting to join Scouting, see: http://www.inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm But the bottleneck in the follow-up phone calls is not the boys' perceptions of Scouting (which admittedly are not initially very good as I go into a recruiting assembly), but the resistance of their parents: 1. Competition from other activities, such as youth sports: This is common, especially with hockey p