Kudu

And if it's done by Patrols without sound youth leadership and support in place, it isn't Scouting either. It's a bullied gang, da Lord of the Flies, or wreckless endangerment. I agree. The Patrol Method depends on a disciplined environment, and Scouting literature in general does not address that issue very well. My best year ever was when Brian, our high school football hero Eagle Scout, volunteered to be Troop Guide for his senior year. It was obvious that the sixth-grade New Scout Patrol (NSP)--which he helped me recruit-- admired him greatly. Everyone in the school (even th

I look at the patrol method more as teaching the patrol leader to lead. Making the patrol leader responsible for: keeping his patrol informed, on track, and watching out for them, making sure that the PLC has activities planned to help with his patrols advancements and to make sure his patrol is having fun. Teaching the patrol leader to interact with the SPL ASPL and other PL. I believe that you are thinking of "Leadership Development." Most of these abstract leadership skills were a subset of the Patrol Method until Hillcourt's Methods of Scouting were "modernized" in the early 1970s.

Patrol Method is last I think SueM's experience is closer to the truth: "These boys began functioning as a patrol within 2 weeks time and after several months of watching what they were doing, the older boys started to try to imitate what they were seeing!" 11 and 12 year-olds can definitely begin to function as a Patrol within two weeks of joining Scouts if the Patrols are physically separated from each other during campouts, and somebody makes sure that the Patrol Quartermaster checks off equipment lists and food lists before every campout. Remember that Baden-Powell obse

A few years ago, when my District Commissioner asked me if I was interested in being Scoutmaster of his son's Troop, I asked their acting Scoutmaster why he was quitting. He wrote me a list of 86 reasons, which can be found at: http://inquiry.net/adult/burnout.htm For a while it was the #1 page (out of 2,280) on my Website in drawing both positive and negative feedback Emails. I took it off the navigational structure of The Inquiry Net when our local Council got upset because it mentioned the Council by name, and it out ranked their official Site on Google searches of the Council n

SR540Beaver writes: You could go to a council property as a troop and drop patrols in different campsites as far away from each other as possible. ozemu writes: Troop camps are always done as separate Patrols all in the one rough area. Distance from the adult camp depends on space available and Scouts abilities. Two excellent posts appear in the Adult-Free Campouts thread that should be read by all Scouters, even those who would never in their wildest dreams allow Scouts to camp without adult supervision. Physically separating Patrols is the answer to the perennial

Even a pantheist who happened to be a materialist would meet this requirement if he admitted that "no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to [God/the world]...The materialist pantheist can follow this, as could the philosopher Compte, who applied the title "God" to humanity. Yeah, I find that atheist Scouts can usually accept Carl Sagan's quotation of Einstein's paraphrase of Spinoza's pantheistic definition of God as the sum total of all the natural laws in the universe. Likewise Tim Jeal's biography Baden-Powell characterizes Baden-Powe

I copied the statement from the BSA website, OGE, I'm agnostic about finding truth on the BSA website. The version I have of the BSA's DRP (as it appears in the semi-secret BSA charter & bylaws) is more sinister. It requires "The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary for the best type of citizenship...." I wonder how many people realize they are agreeing to that when they sign up :-/ Was the DRP reworded? Kudu See: http://inquiry.net/adult/uua/bsa_d

Does that preclude him from being able to remain a Scout? He isn't done forming his opinions, he is just exploring....and as he put it "being an agnostic is cool". Michelle, It really depends on the adults in your unit. Obviously your nephew's experiences with religion within the BSA program have so far all been positive. But you might want to caution him that when he applies such a label to himself, he is wearing an "attitude detector" that works in much the same way as "cool" unconventional haircuts, clothing, or piercings. "Agnostic" is a trigger word in the BSA, and if h

Sure, Scouting is a game. But I hope we never forget it is a game with a purpose. The correct quotation is: "A realization that to the boys Scouting is a gameto you, a game with a purpose: Character building and Citizenship training." It is one of the "Ten Essentials of Scoutmastership" from Hillcourt's Handbook for Scoutmasters (emphasis in the original). See: http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/hillcourt/scoutmastership.htm Our actions should result in a boys happiness through his formative years: "A happy boy is a good boy, a good boy is a good citizen." Sure, to us

In the end the boy will choose to live the Scout Oath and Law and stay with Scouting, or he will choose to leave. Either way, the choice is his alone. But choose he must. You should have the courage of your convictions and call forcing a Scout to make such a false "decision" what it is: kicking him out. You didn't answer my question, either. How long do you give this Scout to make this "choice"? Five Minutes? A Fortnight? Five months, 30 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds? Bears repeating: "It would be a disservice to over five million youth and adult members o

I read through the link you provided and fail to see what this had to do with a Lad who is an agnostic? It details how Scouting can give spiritual direction to boys through indirect means. Hint: Scouting is a game! I agree with the BSA when it states: "It would be a disservice to over five million youth and adult members of Scouting to allow members to pick and choose among the elements of the Oath or Law." Not to nitpick, but I see two problems with that: 1) It is a great disservice to five million youth and adult members to assert that they all agree with the BSA's

That was an unkind and un-Scoutlike slam against Eamonn. Eamonn asked "Isn't it the same with this Lad?" and I replied that it was. If Eamonn is offended by my answer, then I am sorry that he asked the question and that I lacked skill writing my answer. However, the practice of kicking children out of Scouting because they are open-minded about the existence of God is far more unkind and un-Scoutlike, isn't it? What would Baden-Powell have to say about that? While B-P was just a young boy growing up, officials of the state church "publicly suggested that [his father] had died

But if OJ had stood firm in wanting to become a Methodist, I would have supported him and while I might not have liked him becoming a Methodist, the choice would have been his. Isn't it the same with this Lad? Yes, exactly the same. Obviously you missed a great opportunity to run your home like your Scout Troop and kick him out of the family because of his developing beliefs. You could have inspired him to become a life-long Methodist! We deliver the program to Boys who accept the Scout Law and Oath, if they can't accept it or understand it they need help which most of us are not

So if we are going to allow Agnostic Scouts, how should we re-word the Scout Oath? How about "I promise do my best"? All "agnostic" means is open minded. WWJD? That is the whole point, isn't it? If we can't turn our other cheek to an "open minded" teenager, what good is our religion? Kudu

The spirituality of both Baden-Powell and his famous cleric father were described as "pantheistic." A hundred years later, most skeptical Scouts find the pantheistic definition of God as "the sum total of all the natural laws in the universe" acceptable. Ed's idea of a moment of silence is probably the best idea. You might also have him google "agnostic prayer" and find something he can believe in. Here are a couple: The Agnostic's Prayer God, if you are, Forgive me. God, if you are not, Be. (written by Bill Lamb while in high school) Another entitled 'Agnos

William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's quick meeting hints can be found at The Inquiry Net: http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/troop/hints.htm His detailed discussion of how to run Troop meetings (this is a treasure-trove of ideas), can be found at: http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/troop/index.htm

Such discussions usually revolve around the assumption that Scout Spirit should be evaluated by the adults. I take the opposite approach, using the requirement as an opportunity for the Scout to recognize the Scouting ideals already reflected in his own behavior. For advancement, each Scout fills out a "Scout Spirit Scavenger Hunt" and brings it to our Scoutmaster Conference. Basically it is a work sheet with the definition of each of the BSA Scout Laws, and space for the Scout to write an example of his own behavior. For instance: 1. A Scout tells the truth. He is honest, and he

What is a Scouter? I would suggest that the attributes of Scouters philosophical enough to engage in such discussions should include a desire to read one of William Hillcourt's pre-1970s BSA Scoutmaster's Handbooks (the 3rd edition is more than a thousand pages), and Tim Jeal's biography, Baden-Powell, so as to see what the nature of "Scouting" is beyond the BSA's current corporate brand. If you are interested in attending a Traditional Wood Badge course (that is Wood Badge not based on the latest corporate leadership theory), look for Baden-Powell Scouting courses in 2006. They are usu

9. Etc, etc, ad infinitum. Did I leave any out? Yeah, the most obvious: If anyone at BSA understood the Uniform Method, the BSA Uniform would be made for the outdoors, where ideally all Scouting takes place. You can get BDU's at a military surplus store. They make colors other than camo. I have a pair of olive green BDU's and they wear like iron. For close-up comparison photos of the stitching in the BSA pants and BDU pants (as well as olive-drab nylon zip-off pants), see: http://www.inquiry.net/uniforms/bdu.htm "Ideally, no Troop should have a single indoor meeting--

Has it been a month already?

New Scoutmasters can learn more about the Patrol Method by reading William Hillcourt's 3rd Edition of Handbook for Scoutmasters. This two volume masterpiece by the man who brought the Patrol Method to the BSA from Denmark is a thousand pages longer than the current Scoutmaster Handbook, counting all of the current edition's pictures, blank pages and even the index! I finally got around to reading the whole thing by adding it to my Wood Badge ticket. Even though some of the information is dated, you will find that every page contains at least one valuable "new" idea! Used copies c

I used external frame packs for 30 years but ten years ago decided to switch to internal after reading in The Complete Walker that Colin Fletcher had switched. The most interesting part of his account was that he (perhaps the most famous backpacking author in the world) relied on the expertise of a knowledgeable salesperson for advice in selecting and fitting the internal pack to his body. I still have four external packs that I loan out to Scouts. For ten years I have intended to use one of my external packs for old-times sake, but have never gotten around to it. As I get older, I lik

pargolf44067 writes: Any thoughts? If you want to follow the BSA's methods, you can't do better than the thoughts of William Hillcourt, who brought the "Patrol Method" to the BSA from Denmark. In this BSA model the SPL is selected by the PLC, but Hillcourt's advice on electing Patrol Leaders is relevant to this discussion. The first paragraph has always worked for me: The Scoutmaster's Part "If a very definitely unfortunate selection seems imminent to the Scoutmaster, through his more mature knowledge of the Scout in question, he may decide to call the Patrol together and

I don't know why this is here, but I come to the Patrol Method forum to get away from such ranting. There is a place for it of this forum, which allows the rest of us to talk real scouting. Patrol Method discussions is actually a place where problems do get solved. Not a place to vent on the personal perceptions of life. The term "rant" is an emotional term used to dismiss points of view to which we object and/or don't understand. Assertions such as the "rest of us to talk real scouting," and "actually a place where problems do get solved," are merely a reflection of your own "personal

In my Council, a "Camporee" is limited to all of the Troops within a district, and a "Camperall" includes all of the Troops in the whole Council. Kudu