John-in-KC

I train MB Counselors. I ask them "Why would you want to counsel your own child? Why would you not want to expose him to others and how they do things?" Permitted? Yes. Best Practice? I do not think so.

Lisa, I was really, really impressed with the old National Junior Leader Instructor Course at PTC. I saw a cadre come in for final staff development in 2003, when I was there for a conference. Confident, mature young men, ready to go out and train Scouts to serve as Council JLT/Brownsea 22 staff. I was terribly, terribly unimpressed with a NAYLE contingent when I was at PTC in 2008. The youth came in from their outcamp Friday evening and took over the "Buster Brown" Building by the South Tent City (where I was bedding down). They were loud and rowdy well past camp lights out (and I had a long hot summers drive the next day to get in striking distance of home). There was no adult supervision to get them quieted down. So much for a full nights sleep. So much for a full nights' sleep. So much for a full nights' sleep. (Yes, I said it 3 times): Saturday morning, the children were up and rowdy again before 5AM. This time, there was an adult around, because I got up, put on shorts, a T-shirt, and shoes, and went over and bluntly told the gentleman that camp quiet hours were until some time in the future, and that I for one appreciated and wanted my sleep! If that's the quality of cadre, and the quality of youth in NAYLE, I would not recommend it to anyone. Ken (Narriticong): I'm sorry, your son was in this course while we were in conference. I assume he went back to your tent for that final night. I hope he learned more than the other children apparently did.

HUH???? It's ALL Boldface (meaning BSA policy), but I challenge anyone to find the piece of arcane knowledge and Indian Lore you've been told by your Committee, Mr ASM59: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss12.aspx#a Automobiles It is essential that adequate, safe, and responsible transportation be used for all Scouting activities. Because most accidents occur within a short distance from home, safety precautions are necessary, even on short trips. General guidelines are as follows: 1. Seat belts are required for all occupants. 2. All drivers must have a valid driver's license that has not been suspended or revoked for any reason. If the vehicle to be used is designed to carry more than 15 persons, including the driver (more than 10 persons, including the driver, in California), the driver must have a commercial driver's license (CDL). 3. An adult leader (at least 21 years of age) must be in charge and accompany the group. 4. The driver must be currently licensed and at least 18 years of age. Youth member exception: When traveling to and from an area, regional, or national Boy Scout activity or any Venturing event under the leadership of an adult (at least 21 years of age) tour leader, a youth member at least 16 years of age may be a driver, subject to the following conditions: 1. Six months' driving experience as a licensed driver (time on a learner's permit or equivalent is not to be counted) 2. No record of accidents or moving violations 3. Parental permission granted to the leader, driver, and riders 5. Passenger cars or station wagons may be used for transporting passengers, but passengers should not ride on the rear deck of station wagons. 6. Trucks may not be used for transporting passengers except in the cab. 7. All driving, except short trips, should be done in daylight. 8. All vehicles must be covered by automobile liability insurance with limits that meet or exceed requirements of the state in which the vehicle is licensed. It is recommended that coverage limits are at least $50,000/$100,000/$50,000. Any vehicle designed to carry 10 or more passengers is required to have limits of $100,000/$500,000/$100,000. 9. Do not exceed the speed limit. 10. Do not travel in convoy (see "Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings," No. 2). 11. Driving time is limited to a maximum of 10 hours and must be interrupted by frequent rest, food, and recreation stops. If there is only one driver, the driving time should be reduced and stops should be made more frequently. Don't drive drowsy. Stop for rest and stretch breaks as needed. Fatigue is a major cause of highway accident fatalities. Reference: Tours and Expeditions, No. 33737

The simple fact is if someone has a name, if they want to, they can spend from $0 to $50 and find out. In my state, we have free online access to the courts dockets and adjudications.

I've seen a stake in the Nevada Area Council where the President was: - An Eagle Scout himself. - Wood Badge trained. - Involved in Scouting his entire life, both traditional and LDS units. He "kept book" on his Bishops, the Troop leadership had specific conditions of BSA training they must meet in the first twelve months of tenure, and on and on... He insisted his leaders give their youth Scouting. He also had a huge advantage: The Sierra Nevada was literally 5 miles away. Kids could do all kinds of things on even a long overnight backpack. Locally, we have a Stake President who believes in Scouting. It's amazing how much attention the program is getting. Experienced men are being asked to serve as Commissioners, experienced men are being asked to serve as Scoutmasters, again training is not an option. Heck, he's sending many of his units to the H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation for our 10 day Scout camp, knowing full well on at least one session they'll be there for 2 Sabbaths. From what I can see, it's the same story: If the Chartered Partner cares, the unit committee and program leadership will have support. If not, they have to come up with the ethic to do all the things we do for the youth on their own.

This is a question only for your Professionals and the background check. I'd contact your COR at once and share what your candidate has disclosed. Your Chartered Partner may not want him at all, even without the check. Do the app, contact your DE.

Let me see ... It's a hot summer's day. It's the only chance the kids have to get in the water that day. Why wouldn't your Troop participate in the swim check? OBTW, in my Council, the pool is where the docs and nurses do the medical re-checks. I don't know of very many Troops with qualified staff to do medical re-checks...

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss02.aspx "The swimmer and beginner classification tests defined in Safe Swim Defense may be administered at the unit level following procedures specified in Aquatics Supervision, No 34346." Ask your Scout Shop to sell you a copy of Aquatics Supervision Stock Number 34346. From a quick googlesearch, it looks like the cost of this tome is $15.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

ScoutNut, here's the page from whence you can do the download: http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards.aspx It's the 4th item down on the page.

ACP&P #33088 is now online as a pdf at ScoutSource: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf Page 31, the 12 steps from Life to Eagle: It is imperative that all requirements for the Eagle Scout rank except the board of review be completed prior to the candidates 18th birthday. When all requirements except the board of review for the rank of Eagle, including the service project and Scoutmaster conference, have been completed, an Eagle Scout Rank Application must be filled out and sent to the council service center promptly. (See special require ments for youth members with disabilities, page 43, and the section titled Time Extensions, page 25.) The application is not, in and of itself, part of the requirements for Eagle. It's an administrative procedure. In the Council I serve, the tolling for a Scouts 18th Birthday means the SM must conduct the Scoutmaster Conference no later than the day before. There are procedures in place to process the Eagle app and have the EBOR, as a matter of course, after the 18th birthday. See the last paragraph of page 28 as it spills over to page 29: Scouts 18 or older Scouts who have completed all requirements for a rank prior to their 18th birthday should submit their application and be reviewed and recognized within three months after that date. Boards of review conducted between three and six months after the candidates 18th birthday must Boards of Review be pre-approved by the local council. A statement by an adult explaining the reason for the delay must be attached to the Eagle Scout Rank Application when it is submitted to the Eagle Scout Service.Snip

Are we there yet?

As received, names redacted. From: (redacted) AT scouting.org [mailto: (redacted) AT scouting.org] Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 3:43 PM To: Undisclosed recipients Subject: BSA Must Read: Release of Final Requirements for Geocaching Merit Badge This is an official BSA communication. To: (redacted) CC: Assistant Regional Directors;regional directors;Area- Directors;(redacted);Group Directors;(redacted by names) From: Innovation BSA Must Read: Release of Final Requirements for Geocaching Merit Badge Attached please find the final requirements for the Geocaching Merit Badge. SMEs and staff have begun work on the merit badge pamphlet and we expect to have it in Scout Shops and local service centers late in the second quarter. Please forward to camp staffs and others as you deem appropriate. We are excited to introduce the Geocaching Merit Badge. It is the second new merit badge within 6 months (after SCUBA) and the first of three to focus on applications associated with science, technology, engineering and math (STEM). The other two merit badges in this group include the Inventing Merit Badge (developed in partnership with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology) due out in mid-June and the Robotics Merit Badge due out in the first quarter of 2011). The Geocaching Merit Badge will be represented at Merit Badge Midway at the 2010 National Scout Jamboree. As a reminder, the Scouting Heritage Merit Badge is finishing printing and should be in the NDC on approximately 4/19. Please remind your Scout Shop personnel to place their orders for this item (#35970). If you have any questions, please contact (redacted) at (redacted). Rate This Communication You are receiving this e-mail because you are subscribed to one or more of the categories or tags associated with this communication. Please click "Edit your subscriptions and tags" on this page to change your preferences.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

My Professionals sent me a message to the VPs of BSA (I recognized Jim Terry's name ) saying the MB was live. I will see if I can grab it and post it.

Ed, Here we agree, as nolesrule points out. Had the SM given a SM Conference, that would have been one less reason for an appeal. Had the SM given a SM Conference, the Troop would look, to me, like they were doing all and then some. The SM could have given the conference, decided that Scout Spirit was lacking, and refuse to sign off on Scout Spirit, as well as the Eagle app. Oh, well, what is done, is done. Ms Summer, I hope your other son is in a Troop where he'll be accepted for who he is, not someplace where he is the "younger appendage" of Justin.

"Support Your Local Sheriff", while a comedy, can be used to point out what happens when civic leaders take the easy path. M*A*S*H: The job must be done, even when the community doesn't play nice together. "Paint Your Wagon": Another that works by showing life from a seedier side. "The Music Man": Unity can come from seemingly unimportant things (not to mention Buddy Hackett on the sousaphone is a sight, especially when you've seen young men and women proudly march with their horns).

"...the Scout Master bent over backwards trying not to have this happen;" There were no fewer than four appealable events in this over a year long marathon: - The Scoutmaster refused to give a Scoutmaster conference to the Scout. - The Scoutmaster refused to sign off on Scout Spirit. - The Scoutmaster refused to recommend the Scout for advancement to Eagle by signing the Eagle application. - The Committee refused to go forward with an Eagle Board of Review, even though ACP&P permits them the option to do when a Scoutmaster refuses to sign the app. The EBOR is permitted to consider the failure to recommend in their evaluation of the Scout. Two of the four events were wholly avoidable by the unit: - As Ed points out regularly, the requirement is participate in a Scoutmaster Conference. The Scoutmaster CAN sign off on the conference, and can refuse to sign off on Scout Spirit (living the Oath and Law in his daily life). His further unwillingness to endorse the Eagle Application lends strength to his overall position. There's still an appealable event, but the Scoutmaster has gone the mile and the extra mile. That tends to deflate sails more than a little. - The Committee could have decided to authorize an EBOR: The CC could have told the youth "You are asking for this without recommendation of the Scoutmaster. Understand it's possible you won't be advanced to Eagle." Again, the unit has done all it was supposed to, and more. Those things matter. Our choices define how we are seen by others. I've written Ms Summer offlist and congratulated Justin. I do so as the father of my own son, an Eagle himself. Lord willing, Justin has grown from the experience, and will have some idealism survive what could be a very cynical marathon in his maturing life.

Speaking in my role as District Merit Badge Counselor Trainer... Lots of people here should re-read what ScoutNut posted: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From the BSA Guide for MErit Badge Counselors - "The merit badge counselor is a key player in the Boy Scout advancement program. Whatever your area of EXPERTISE or INTEREST whether it is a special craft or hobby (basketry, leatherwork, coin collecting), a profession (veterinary medicine, aviation, engineering), or perhaps a life skill (cooking, personal management, communications) as a merit badge counselor, you can play a vital role in stirring a young man's curiosity about that particular topic." From the BSA Merit Badge Counselor Application - "To qualify as a merit badge counselor, you must Be at least 18 years old. BE PROFICIENT IN THE MERIT BADGE SUBJECT BY VOCATION, AVOCATION, OR SPECIAL TRAINING. Be able to work with Scout-age boys. Be registered with the Boy Scouts of America." The CAPS are mine for emphasis. How can you stir anyone's curiosity in a subject if you only have a passing knowledge of it, or really don't care a whole bunch about it, and find it boring? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Merit Badge Counselors select themselves, based on their decision that they have knowledge, skill, or passion about a subject!! So, to Bando, I'd contact your friendly District Advancement Chairman and ask who the local Counselors in Environmental Science are, and then pass them to the ASM. If he's wanting in-Troop Counselors, I'd tell him "Think about Adult Association. Our young men should be experiencing new folks, adults they've not yet met. They'll be doing that soon enough as they start to get jobs and step into adult life."(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

When is Ordeal weekend? Can you postpone? Actually I thought the Guide to Offices and Elections said an abstention did not count either way. Would a fellow Arrowman check me on that? One other option is to have the Tenderfeet off doing something someplace else that night.

"the debrief can serve a valuable purpose, if it is educational and not shameful." As I've said elsewhere, it takes someone with advanced understanding of learning methods and the human psyche to pull off "The Game of Life" or "Win all You Can" such that the event does not send matters into the crapper. I've studied leadership for my adult life. For a good chunk, leadership was my profession. I would not use this game even with well-formed teams in our Armed Forces. I believe it does not contribute to a good end, nor that it is valuable to the course. Now, if it were restructured so that successful conflict resolution was a planned outcome...

Gonzo, Yeah... On this one, I agree with Merlyn, as well as most everyone else on the board, as well. Great nations have great visions, and then back up those visions with great actions.

dg98adams: SSD/SA are landbound discussions. Why not give the responsibility for them to a youth member, who is a BSA Lifeguard, as an Instructor's billet??? In fact, why not give the BSA Swim test to that same youth?

My two cents: This is pole vaulting over mouse turds. As long as the vitals are covered, no harm, no foul. Tell the CC you'll have the PLC discuss it, and the youth can make the decision. For Pete's sake, it's the heat of summer! In this weather I'd probably have a gallon jug under the bunk to do a middle of the night cool-down sponge bath.

Dave, If you want to be an agent of change, start by contacting your Council Professional who is the Staff Adviser to the Advancement Committee. Share your concerns with him. I will bet a steak dinner at the Golden Ox that the association you mentioned in your base post offered to develop the MB pamphlet for free to BSA. That has happened more than once. Complaing here, and on facebook (as you have), isn't going to do much. You need someone who can reach into the staff at Irving.

WHAT GUNNY SAID

Please show me where, beyond a youth/adult OA membership: Jamboree lodge flaps/CSPs are earned. NOAC lodge flaps are earned. I wear a 2005 Jambo lodge flap on one of my shirts. I didn't attend. Why? The artwork is incredible, and the artwork on our current standard lodge flap looks like a nine year old did it. I wear a 2008 NOAC lodge flap on a different shirt. I didn't attend. Why? The design is simple and elegant, whilst our current lodge flap looks horrid. They're for sale, on reduction, at one of our Council Reservation trading posts. To me, it's blindingly obvious to the casual observer that someone wants to get some money out of them. Otherwise, they'll either be given away or rot in storage. Sounds like being Thrifty to me.