John-in-KC

Judge: Your argument is a crock of BULL****. Plain and simple. First year camp salary in my Council is $37 a week and found. For the youth who work in our Central Camp, with about a six hour work day, that comes to about $1 per hour gross, before Federal, State, SS, and Medicare taxes. The kids working Cub World work 14 hours day 1, 11 day 2, and then do it again. That's 50 hours for $37 ... that's less than a dollar per hour. The youth members who serve our Council camps may be employees, but they are doing it for something greater than the dough. They are giving cheerful service back to Scouting. Don't try telling me their room and board makes up the difference. It doesn't, not even. IF we were actually giving them minimum wage for actual hours worked, well, camp wouldn't be affordable to a lot of Scouts and Scout families. So I will keep saying this: The young women Venturers who serve Scouting by serving our camps merit entry into the Order. They do more than any 10 youth in Troops who spend a week of their summer being camper Timmy and then going to some clerk job at a market or convenience store.

Everything MikeF and Lisa said. The Scoutmaster is the Gatekeeper. While at camp he doesn't have the selection ability he has at home for Counselors, he has the ability to walk the ground and evaluate what happens in the program areas. If Mr Scoutmaster is not happy with the quality of instruction, his first stop is a friendly cup of coffee with the session lead commissioner and the program director. State what is wrong and what is expected to change in clear, concise terms. If that does not get results, visit with the Camp Director. He/she may or may not be a member of the Professional Service. If that does not get results, visit with the Reservation Director. If that does not get results, visit with the COR back home and have the Chartered Partner bring muscle to bear on Council. If we allow bad teaching to happen, we deserve what our youth "earn."

Two comments: 1) Your IH and COR need to send a business letter to the Scout Executive. They need to state that the Council is not meeting its obligations of providing program per the Charter Agreement in not meeting special dietary needs. They need to further state they are asserting their franchise owndership of the Troop and instructing the CC, the SM, and the PLC that Camp XYZ will never again be used by Troop 987. Those kinds of letters tend to get immediate attention by the SE, once the season is done. The Chartered Partner is taking revenue away from the Scout Camp. Most Councils have their camp leaders guides online. If I were your Troops SM, I'd ask the SPL to have some older Scouts start doing research and reading. (Of course, I'd also being doing this independently). As so many have stated, most camps move Heaven and Earth to accommodate most special dietary needs. CAUTION: Your unit may get flak from the SE, DE, and Commissioner Service over leaving the Council camp. Mr CC and Mr SM need to simply refer those who would give flak to the IH and COR.

emb, Adult women are not an issue, they can be selected for the Order. Youth women are the issue. I volunteer as a commish at one of our Reservations. Central Camp (home of Boy Scout and Webelo sessions) has women youth staff. Cub World (home of Bear Family Resident Overnight Camp) has women youth staff. All the young women I know on staff are fantastic people. My issue is they are not being recognized by their Councils for the service they are cheerfully giving. That's why you've seen this comment from me, both here and at the FB OA group. The young women serving Scouting deserve membership in the Order. Period.

SM worked 2 miles from the Council Service Center. We all agreed it was a no-brainer for him, vice any of us who would have to drive 45 miles RT on a Saturday...

Want a good self-assessment in a Scouting context? Evaluate each point of the Boy Scout Law in your daily life. Evaluate each point of the Boy Scout Oath in your daily life. Since you work with Cubs, evaluate the Cub Scout Promise as well. You don't have to buzzword it (360). You are simply applying the Scout Spirit requirement to yourself. I wish you well John A Good Old Owl C-40-05

But MBC's who are not registered Scouters also have to complete YPT... WRONG. Merit Badge Counselors are registered Scouters. The position code is 42. "If you are not yet a merit badge counselor, it is easy to become a volunteer. You will need to register with the Boy Scouts of America, through your BSA local council. This entails contacting the local council, then obtaining, completing, and turning in the "Adult Application." The council will then process the application. (Every applicant is screened.)" http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors.aspx As registered Scouters, the YPT requirement applies.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

For the benefit of my young, currently voting brothers ... When I was a young, voting brother, EXPLORERS were permitted elections. I will say this: If your Council has young women serving the youth staff of your Scout Camps, I will bet you a dinner here and now at the Golden Ox they are giving more cheerful service than any 10 Scouts in Troops, not members of camp staffs, who are "dues paying" Order Brothers. (You have to get yourself to Kansas City). Until Councils can recruit and retain all male staffs, imnsho opinion, the Order is flat dab WRONG in not admitting women Venturers to it.

No, moosetracker. In the Troop I served, when I was AC, I had 6 major tasks: - Keep Troopmaster. - Obtain info from the youth (sometimes through the Scribe, other times directly) - Cut advancement reports - Advise the Scoutmaster on youth progress, boy by boy (usually though output reports) - Gather BORs together. In my Troop, the Committee Chair deemed chairing boards his personal task. - After Internet recharter, execute recharter. The Scoutmaster jealously guarded his prerogative to have regular ongoing contact with the youth, including assigning Counselors. What you described might be the easy way, but it's not the Cowboy Way ... to use a quote from Riders in the Sky

A comment: Bugling, in person, as a tool of military command and control, even in garrison, is no more. At Riley, at Sill, at Babenhausen Kaserne, at the CW Abrams Complex in Frankfurt, at Graf ... save for ceremonial Taps (read funerals), bugle calls were the function of a loudspeaker and a tape (now an MP3 hooked into the post loudspeaker network). Even Adjutant's Call for reviews is now played by a trumpeter on his trumpet.

"If you give them good program, they will come" ... H Roe Bartle Scout Executive, Kansas City Area Council, 1928-1955 Mayor, Kansas City, 1955 - 1963 Founder and Chief Lone Bear in the Tribe of Mic-o-Say Our job as adult leaders is to place a quality outdoor program where our youth members can function as the living, breathing mini-societies they are supposed to be. That means teaching/coaching/mentoring them to do: - Research on activities - Selecting activities - Planning activities - Training in preparation for activities - DOING activities. That involves teaching, coaching and mentoring them to work in small groups (eg PATROLS), and that involves teaching, coaching and mentoring them to work in groups of groups (the TROOP). In a pretty decent (not necessarily ideal) world, much of this happens older to younger youth. Sometimes, the world model isn't decent, and adults may have to pick up more of the t/c/m burden. Like jhankins, I grow weary of the constant complaint. A TOOL in our toolbox is just that: A tool. It's nothing until we take it and apply it. Have I used every tool I ever owned in exactly its designed state? No.

Older teen: Venturing is doing a pretty good job, when Crews are properly developed. Tween-Teen: My personal thought is gender-specific. We know that girls used "Scouting for Boys" in the early day. B-P tells us that. A FEW merit badges might have to be tweaked for gender specific needs, but most stand as is. Child: Cubbing, again, gender-specific. My thoughts only.

OGE: That land is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0-um0pHTAg Somewhere Over the Rainbow...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Don't sell what you can't deliver. To Lisa's comment, I say "Yea, Verily!" To me, the Outdoors Method is the only one that will bring tweens and teens to Boy Scouting. That's our program.

As an azimuth check, I'd like to see the Census estimates on male youth 7-10 and 11-18 in the same time frames. I'd also like to see those estimates broken down by Caucasian, Hispanic, and other groupings. Are we making contact in target populations ?

You have been given excellent advice from Lisa and Eagle92. You are the Chartered Organization Rep. You have the authority and the responsibility to remove a leader from your unit. As others have said, it's time for a business sit-down with your IH. Get his/her backing, and then ... gird up your loins. Your Scouting position places you on the line for this task. Keep your IH, Commish, and DE informed.

Things we in the Council I serve: - DE's still work the schools, hard, and have relationships with the Superintendents and the building Principals. - We encourage Packs to be active and supportive of their schools on "Back to School Night" ... nothing like helping out with an ice cream social, or doing D.O. desserts, and having the PW Derby track out to show the fun of Cubbing. - We also encourage a Pack meeting focusing on recruitment in the first week of the school year. - Don't focus on just the Tigers. Work the Wolf, Bear, and Weeb years as well. - FOLLOWUP. Good program in Packs helps retention. Trust me, it works. Our numbers are growing. THE BUT: We volunteers have to be willing to work at obtaining and retaining youth members.

Because I was out with my tubist camp staffer on Father's Day, gwd...

Son has done Taps on tuba at Scout Camp. 3 seasons in fact. This year, we are doing Taps as the final close of campfire, sending the parents and Bear Cubs back to their campsites and tents for the night. Another staffer, a trumpeter, has the honor this year

Lisa, as she often does, said much of what I wanted to say :-) As adults, Scouting is about relationships ... Our role is to put program resources where our young charges will find them and make use of them. Like many others here, the leadership psych of WB was a review of very well plowed ground. What was new to me was the additional access I obtained to people and their skills, in part because I went out-of-Council for my course. For an Army guy, one way to think of WB is to think about ANCOC or the Sergeants Major Course. It's a shared moment you have in common with the guy on your left and on your right. Another way to think about it is when you step on the freedom bird after a year in-theater, along with all your mates. You share a common bond. BTW: EDGE is buzzword Bingo. People who wear tree suits can substitute BTMS how to train for edge. Exact same content. If you've been around TRADOC for any length of time, EDGE is the fundamental piece of the Instructor Training Course. Sadly, from my observation post , too many adults do not know how to train people to train other people. Even so, Kudu is right that EDGE shod not have displaced the patrol method in program training for Scouters

I spent Father's Day on the Theodore Naish Scout Reservation with my son. He was in his program areas cheerfully serving the younger and weaker as a staffer, I was on the trails leading Bear Cubs and their parents to the destnations of Bear Camp as a campsite commish. That evening, I saw him lead the camp to campfire on our trails playing his tuba. Thank you, good Lord, for days like that! :-)

E92, I disagree with you on the # # # # # # # # # # # # ## # # # # Belt Loops. They were a substitute for rigor that was in the earlier editions of the Boy Scout Handbook. When I went for First Class I could make a decent kebab dinner already; I learned how to cook for a group working up 1C cooking. I still remember how hard I had to work as an 11 year old for my mile swim; I also remember how wonderful it was to earn it. Belt Loops were part of the urbanization of Scouting, as were MBs early on instead of quality requirements. I really am beginning to think that when we return to the ideal that the First Class Scout badge is the true mark of better boyhood, we will be on the trail. BTW, I agree with you about time between T and 2 and 2 and 1.

I'm old school: - When I was a youth, I never got a MB at home without at least two visits with my Counselor: The first visit, he shared his passion, his knowledge, and his standards. The second, I had to show my skills. (At least once, that became a third (ask me how much I like diamond hitches...)

Well, since I'm the one who came up with "The Scoutmaster is the Gatekeeper", let me explain it... The Scoutmaster is the (Guardian, Steward, Gatekeeper) of most of the things a Troop and its PLC do or fail to do. He's the principal Program Officer of the unit, and he's accountable to the COR through the Committee for his charges (now, is that precise language from BSA materials? No. I trust you get the point). With regard to the Advancement Method: - He's the guy who assigns Scouts to Merit Badge Counselors (see Requirements #33215). If Mr SM says "Go to the website and pick a name, here's a Blue Card" ... if he gets a youth back who knows diddly and has a signed off MB ... it's Mr SMs own bloody fault!! - If Momma X, who is a MB Counselor for the Troop only, signs blue cards for her son for 27 different MBs, and the SM accepts that, it's his own bloody fault. He's supposed to be aware of what the kids are doing. A visit to get a blue card is a mini-SM-conference, for Pete's sake. It's a chance for the SM to check in 1/1 with the youth. - If the PLC wants the Troop to go to (insert Museum here) and they have a 1 night "EARN YOUR (insert MB here) MB AT OUR ACTIVITY" program, and he doesn't say "We'll do the activity, but after it's done I'll issue those interested blue cards", and he accepts what the Museum does, and they do a 300/1 lecture with someone for "Meet with a (insert skilled trade/craft here) and discuss the careers available in (insert field here), well, it's his own bloody fault. - If at Scout Camp, the kids are all sleeping around the picnic table, and yet they earned the MB by Osmosis, it's the Scoutmaster's bloody fault. Why wasn't he walking the areas and asking tough questions of the Area Directors and the Program Director about the quality of program presented? Oh: And if he didn't get good answers, why wasn't he talking to the Reservation Director and his COR about same? The Scoutmaster gatekeeps the program by ensuring those he permits to put program in front of Scouts passes his/her muster!

As a note, my District Advancement Chair told me today that Scouting had given notice of the discontinuance to the Advancement channels three years ago, and he actually could point to where he put it in our District newsletter.