John-in-KC

BTW, Having looked at the other thread, Beavah's post is vital to this young man's hope of seeing Eagle.

The problem, to me, is the slippery slope. Yes, I appreciate that candidates would like Scouts to open ceremonies and do the flag. Yes, I think the guy who was at the McCain-Palin roll-out should have asked for a bit less public a spot to sit than right on the platform... he was spun nine ways to Sunday. The problem is when we Scouters shamelessly use Scouting when we run for office. I know a State Legislator whose campaign materials included the current CSP and a couple of FOS donation mugs. He made prominent mention of his Scouting adult service in the flyer too. Where does National draw the line? Right now, I think where it is isn't too bad.

Linda, Welcome to the forums. Glad to hear the Troop is moving to Patrol cooking. I think a great topic for your son's PL to ask the PLC for is "food allergies and camp cooking." Have the kids find and bring in a home ec (excuse me, human ecology) teacher to talk about these challenges. Explain, as Rythos said, how more ingredient cooking (vice processed foods) can reduce risk. Advocate purging peanut oil from the patrol boxes! Finally, ask for a doctor's assessment from the family. I saw one kids' allergy list at Scout Camp this year: How that boy wasn't living in a bubble was beyond me. Getting the medical degree of risk can drive how deep the caution should run.

CA, Interesting. Of course, an 11 year old Tenderfoot in 2002 will not age out until 2009, so those old cards may be in Scouts' hands at least another year...

For once we're talking about Scout Spirit as it should be... living the Oath and the Law in our daily lives. Liperazs, read these words: Live the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life. If we were having breakfast at the local coffee-shop, you, I and your Scoutmaster, could you say you've done that? Citizenship isn't about not breaking the law, it's about being the best person you can be, and helping to uphold the law. Look into your own heart. Look at how people you should respect act, in public and away from the public. Do they model attitudes and behaviors you don't? Good or bad? None of us is golden. We all have our corners. You, though, have to decide, for yourself, what being "good people" means to you. If that ethic is one of a stoner, a dealer, or a wannabe, then maybe you need to reconsider going to Eagle. If the ethic is of an active participant in society, then maybe going to Eagle is for you. By all means, consider what Nike said. You want the folks in the justice system on your side when the time comes to go for Eagle. Here's the BUT: It'll only matter if you decide you want your life to be "mentally awake and morally straight." I wish you well, but right now your attention needs to be very local!

lierazs, Welcome to the forum. I'd have you and your SM talk to your local District Advancement Chairman. We can tell you what BSA says, and how our own Councils/Districts implement, but you need what is local to you! I would, though, get the following people working on at least deciding what they want to say or write: - Parents. - Pastor or faith leader. - Academic (EagleSon used his band director, who'd had daily contact with him for 4 years) - Scoutmaster. - Employer if you have one. Beyond that, go to the NESA website; pull down the current Eagle app. Sadly, they don't let you save the material (one of the bigger boners imho). You may want to snapshot the app and paste it onto Publisher or powerpoint as an underlayer, then use text boxes to fill in. Good hunting, let us know how you get there.

Here's a simpler way than de-chartering units: - Training is an explicit condition of membership. - Training (FS, YP, NLE, and leader specific for registered position) must be complete before next recharter after joining (waived for last 60 days of charter year) - Training for changed positions, either by app or recharter, must be complete before next renewal. The responsibility shifts to the individual.

Vicki, First, obsolete language is never helpful. Implies no one is working to keep current. In fact, I'm starting a new corner at our RT next month because we have folks who are not current on Eagle Required MBs... and they are SMs and CCs. Second, our Fall Fellowship is three weekends away. It is closed to non-Arrowmen. In fact, that particular Scout Reservation is closed that weekend except for OA doings. There is nothing in the literature I know of that requires ceremonies to be open to the general public. The literature mandates no secret societies, and requires that parents, pastors, teachers and others with a concern have access to the materials, and, if adjudged necessary and appropriate, access to the ceremony.

RangerT, SFAIK (since my Council does not have mandatory training), this is something being done by individual Councils. Remember, for the SE to make this happen, he has to have buy-in from his Executive Board. That isn't the easiest thing in the world. He also has to have enough support from volunteer trainers.

Google-shop, the stuff is out there. Without even trying found 6" wide x 25 yard roll of hooks and piles (note, it's sold by component). Only problem, this site had a 4 roll (100 yd) minimum order.

In a perfect world, the Scout. When I was an advancement coordinator, I made copies of partials, loaded the data into Troopmaster, and the Scout kept his. That way, I could see trendlines developing, and advocate kids get together to get the job done.

One further comment: Any SM who tells a parent their child needs a new uniform because it's the new uniform deserves the invective some parent will give them. Mark my words: It will happen. The question is where and how soon.

Gotta agree with scoutldr. Depending on how big your Council is, the SE or one of his senior Professionals will make the call. A reasonable window for a decision would be Wednesday-Thursday of event week.

Do any of you have a clue about what it takes to turn on the lights at a Scout Reservation these days? Maintaining a dining hall is a tens of thousands of dollars a year expense. Around here, State and County health departments, when they change code, don't grandfather anymore. You do it, or you don't get a food service operations certificate. Pools come under scrutiny of the health department; lakefronts under the scrutiny of Park Service, Forest Service or Corps of Engineers. If their inspector says change, you don't get to plan it in, you do it. Have y'all costed non-BSA camp programs recently? Double or more the typical Scout Camp. Some of the difference comes from having an endowment available. It helps pay for the 44 weeks a year your camp is not in summer session. Want to help reduce the need for endowments? Donate your skills and abilities to the Council when workdays come around. I know a mechanic; he gets paid a fair wage. He donates his Saturdays and Sundays in the camp garage working on reservation vehicles. He's been known to bring a truck back to town for extensive work, done at his shop in the evening.

To me it's simple: If a PLC, SM, and/or Committee mandate the new uniform, they'd better also come up with the fundraising events to support the youth in buying it. Even in the Armed Forces, there are buy-in/wear-out periods between uniforms. It took from October 1981 to October 1985 to fully bring in BDUS. It took several years to switch from BDU to ACU. When we dumped khakis for the Army green short sleeve shirt, that took a while. For a young man, this is a fair economic decision. Which would you rather have Mr Scoutmaster: Scout going to next summer's Scout camp, or Scout in a new uniform but can't get the last quarter of his next summer camp bill paid??

My random thought is there's something deeper behind the proposal. Wonder if the council settled a lawsuit recently? Could this be the Executive Board's path to solving a due diligence challenge for the future? Whatever's there, there's a reason the Council is shifting to this model... since I'm not in it, I don't know it, but someone local should do some digging.

What do you have your Den Chief and ADL's doing to support management of the meeting? Sometimes, having the game early (or even having the game dovetail the pre-opening) tires them out so they're more on task for the craft or the learning segment. Another option is to have a little bit of everything going on, with just a couple youth at each station. Always have a second/third activity at each station. Seems no mattter how often I plan any activity, I end up overestimating the time it'll take. Finally, I really like ScoutNut's reward idea

There are other Councils which are trying it. One of the long poles, as someone mentioned, is getting the data into ScoutNet and getting it to units for review. I understand the logic, and I will say there is a fair amount of training (YP, FS, NLE is coming) at MyScouting. The question your COR should be asking your District Chair and Council President is how convenient are you going to make training for volunteers?

Eagle92, To answer your question, Sir, register him and pay his dues to a Lodge. If you do something like have a Vigil Banquet, pay for that too. Then there should be no issues. If he's out of Scouting at the moment, this is a good time to bring him back to the fold.

Doc, No, the ceremonies are not open to the general public. They are for members. The object of the exercise is to use mystery and the unknown as elements. Kids thrive on that. Parents, pastors, teachers, others having concerns should contact the Lodge Adviser, a volunteer, or the Lodge Staff Adviser, a professional, to ask their questions. The path of knowledge can extend all the way up to attendance at a ceremony, depending on if the question can be answered by other means. The information is available. The lodge adviser or staff adviser in your council can assist you in determining what information you need to answer your questions. I hope that makes sense.

TCD, The youth or his parents are the most commonly recognized two. That said, a phone call by a Chartered Partner to the Council Solutions Group at BSA, routed to whoever is handling Chartered Partner Relationships now, is going to get some degree of attention ... especially if an IH or COR says "my council is in left field on this, and we are pursuing an appeal." I like Loud Snoring Bear's idea of a shot across the bow... in fact I said something a bit similar last night at 630PM: "This is a time for your (in order) COR, CC, or SM to pay a business office call on the Scout Executive... with his Advancement Chairman present. Ask, forthrightly and bluntly, where the "must have blue cards" is in the National Program materials ... and be armed with the no additions, subtractions or modifications clause from ACP&P."

What Gold Winger describes is the ideal situation. If you have a weak or non-existent Chartered Partner relationship, you may get "deer in the headlights" looks. If you have a weak or non-existent Commissioner Service, you may also get "deer in the headlights" looks. Whoever instigates this, though, needs to be ready to step into the CC's shoes. That means taking training! Remember, our job as adults in Boy Scouting is to support the Scoutmaster as he delivers the program to the youth. That also means supporting the SPL and the PLC as they make the basic program decisions about what the Troop does. We can't tell you much more given what you've told us. We can wish you well in this.

Neil, If you let one major addition to the requirements stand as Council policy, how long will it be before the next? What will it be? I can imagine a Council Advancement Committee dumping Lifesaving OR Emergency Prepardness for Lifesaving AND EP. You have to pick the Scout and his parents with some care. Of course, the first two appeals in this council should be be pro forma, since they'll be denied on the basis of local policy. Again, that's where I advocate an involved Chartered Partner being the one to push the issue. Scouting has its side of the contract to deliver. I think we can all agree this Council Advancement Committee has set up a lose-lose situation. I'm just glad I'm not in this Council.

The Scoutmaster of EagleSon's troop had no problem looking at the candidate list and de-certifying a boy from eligibility. He had no problem looking that boy in the eye at a Scoutmaster Conference and explaining why he wasn't going to be included. He also trusted the boys to make good decisions. Guess what, folks? They did. A marginal kid in EagleSon's year group wasn't selected... twice. The youth were the ones who held him back. Scoutmasters who have to review the selected list to see if the youth got it right probably are working the Adult Run Method a little hard. My thoughts.

Bob, This is where ethical decisionmaking comes into play for us. What's the right thing to do? From where I sit, the decisions possible are: - Push individually. If the EBOR adjourns, the Scout has right of appeal at District, Council, and National. Sooner or later, do you not think National will notice a common thread of appeals from Council X? - Push once. This is the approach I advocated in my earlier post. It will take at least one involved Chartered Partner to raise the baloney flag to the Council President, SE, and Advancement Chairman. - Do nothing, and let this addition to the requirements stand. I know what I would choose; you have to make your own decision. Let us know how you decide and how it turns out.