JoeBob

Thank you all for your input. This is a touchy one. I'll check back in a few days. Thank you.

MattR: I'm pretty close to the 2x4 stage with this boy. In conversation, he'll say the right things. He'll write down the correct goals. But he does not live up to his words. About half the troop can't stand to be around him; and the other half continue to fall for his manipulations. Most of the adults will negotiate with him and give in to the bare minimums just to get him to go away. I'm not going to list details online for privacy concerns. He is a very smart kid. But you've given me a framework that I think I can work within. "If I hear anything else bad, we'll start 3 months of Scout Spirit over again."

This boy does not care about others. "If Tenderfoot doesn't care enough to work on his advancement, why should I care?" And in truth, Tenderfoot has not put forward a lot of effort. But that does not give Eagle the right to be condescending and cruel.

Torchwood: He manipulates boys and adults well. And to the letter of the law, he met the requirements. We slowed him down with Scout spirit, but we could not say no. Barely.

At a recent troop meeting a 14 year-old Eagle said to a 13 year-old Tenderfoot: "You've never advanced, and you're never going to advance for the rest of your life." Not very Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, or Kind. As SM, how would you respond? The 14yo has a history of putting others down to pump himself up. He made Eagle because he barely squeaked by meeting the legal definitions of the requirements. He is self-centered and only notices other people when they get in his way. SM conversations suggesting areas and methods for improvement have yielded no observable long-term improvements. How do I reach him? His statements were cruel mental bullying. I expect a better example from the Eagles in my troop. Other than the obvious re-start on scout spirit for his first palm, what actions can you suggest that I and the troop take to modify his behavior?

"The boy won't earn eagle without the poorest, shadiest merit badge councilors signing off on some half-assed rush jobs" Maybe not. In 2 years my son has accumulated 4 partials that require some simple, but incomplete, activity to complete. (Motorboating - 'Look up the regs for your state'). Since I'm his SM, I try extra hard not to helicopter him; he can finish those MBs when he gets motivated.

Our district cancelled SLT. Not enough sign-ups. Then they followed up with cancelling ITOLs. I think that the word has spread about how useless most of the training was.

"Since when is your prepubescent angst any concern of mine?" "Do I look like a pretty boy in some popularity contest?" Have we met? I can use these.

I'm presenting knots that they need. The troop practiced figure 8s for the climbing trip. I demonstrate to everyone and then the PLs and older boys work with the others. In SMCs I ask them to show me their square knot, and then show them how a thieve's knot is similar. I wear a cord on my belt to test 2 half hitches and taut lines. Held a lashing patrol competition when it was too cold to go outside. "Let's don't do that again. It took too long and was too hard." PL's teach the knots? Only if they have the book handy to look at!

Recent campouts October: 2 nights on Mt Yonah, Climbing on Saturday. (20 boys) November: Hike along the Chattooga River (6 boys) December: Overnight in a local climbing gym. (25 boys) January: Mammoth Cave KY (13 boys) February: Suwanee River canoe trip (12 boys) March: North Carolina farm for rifle and shotgun shooting (31 boys signed up) And bitching about a 2 hour hike planned for Sunday morning. I sleep in a hammock, where ever there are trees. Every time we challenge them, they whine hard. Usually, after the fact, they admit that they had fun. But they never want to repeat the experience. Although climbing on Mt Yonah with professional guides was a blast, they'll never go back because of the 1.5 mile hike up 1000 feet. I'm weary of making them have fun. When are they going to want to be challenged?

My Boy Scout Troop is not moving. I've been working hard to get the boys interested in scout skills. Basic stuff that any boy 50 years ago would love to learn and practice. I've worked to make it fun, to make it interesting, and to present it so that they can learn it easily. And they're just too damned lazy to care. They don't want to hike in the woods. They don't want to camp if it involves walking more than 100 feet from a car. They don't want to have knot tying or wood cutting competitions, because that would involve knowing how to tie knots and cut wood. They like playing in the fire but not gathering the firewood. And that may be because they see no need for having scout skills. Cutting wood and tying knots are skills that they would only use in an emergency. Being prepared is not a motto that they take to heart. I'm tired of swimming upstream. I don't know if I can ever change the mentality of the troop. The older boys who matriculated before I became SM are spreading the Car Camping culture more effectively than I can promote the Woods Skills culture. And why not? Car Camping is easy. Video games, computers, and smart phones have created a generation of boys who are accustomed to instant gratification and no appreciation for work. I don't know how to change that.

I don't mind the young Eagles at all. If they have satisfied the requirements, get them Eagle ASAP in order to set an example for the other boys! What sticks in my craw is the boys, young or old, who do just enough to barely argue that they have completed the work. Packing your footlocker for camp does not qualify as: "b. Pack your own gear and your share of the patrol equipment and food for proper carrying. Show that your pack is right for quickly getting what is needed first, and that it has been assembled properly for comfort, weight, balance, size, and neatness." If I have to look at your Eagle paperwork to remember who you are, chances are good that you haven't met the troop's expectation of 'active'.

Since it is the board's not meeting that has caused the time crunch, they should be helping the scout; not hindering. Best case for appeal that I've heard of. Complete the project and go over their head. Don't invite them to his ECOH.

Scouter99 : Please read this carefully. Even though you quote me fairly well, you're still not understanding. "Take JoeBob--completely insulted that I and others say SMs are ignorant and egotistical, yet just a couple months ago when he included pistols (which are not allowed) in his ideal Boy Scout camp" Scouter 99, just because pistols are not allowed now does not mean that they could not / should not be considered for inclusion in an ideal camp. Regurgitating the G2SS gives you no control over the future. Watch this space for LaserTag and paintball. Bureaucratic paperwork can easily be overcome by more paperwork: "This program involves pistol shooting, it is only available to Venture Scouts. Boys over the age of 14 or who are 13 and have completed the 8th Grade can attend as Venture Scouts if they simply fill out an application (there is no additional charge)." http://www.campjosepho.org/boy-scout-programs/shooting-sports-camp/

Reminder: When you first join Cubs as a parent, you don't know anything. You don't know what a CO is; you don't know that you're part of a district that is part of a council, that has people that will sometimes answer questions. You basically have to trust the folks that got you involved in the first place, until you have a chance to learn a little more on your own. WolfMom: Find the other local parents that quit and start your own pack. 25 to 30 miles driving to other existing packs is not sustainable. Good Luck!

I disagree with the majority. A nesting box certainly counts as a sanctuary. I think we're looking at a classic rural/urban conflict. In the city a birdbath, a feeder, or a shrub sanctuary make sense. In the country where puddles abound, the corn or millet field next door is a food source, and your front yard becomes a bird sanctuary if you don't mow it every week... Well; a nesting box to keep eggs away from the coons makes more sense.

Older Boy Scouts (more so than 9 year old Cubs) should be able to understand and remember that your son's 'ears don't work', and so make sure that he can see their lips when talking to him. If I were his SM, I'd challenge his PL to come up with games where having a lip reader on my team was an advantage.

I have issues, too. Isn't the main definition of 'camping' to get away from 'infrastructure'?

Basement: I love your attendance policy. My committee is slowly gravitating towards something similar. Our next hurdle is getting the Scribe to take attendance and post it in a reliable manner.

Coleman Fuel on lit torches? That's white gas! The man is dangerous!

1- There have been a few blanket condemnations of the SM in this thread based entirely on the perspective of a parent with an agenda. 'MyBoy' wants her son to be awarded Eagle without having to participate in 3 camping trips. Some have accepted her viewpoint as a full and accurate description, and posters have jumped on the band wagon because they feel that all SMs are egomaniac power trippers. My experience differs. When an SM feels that he needs to CC the ASMs in his troop, I don't assume that he's beating down a boy. More likely he is in a situation where he feels the need for a documented chain of evidence. 2- Should we start another thread to address SM egos? Does being selected to lead your troop's youth leaders MAKE you an egomaniac? If not, why are egomaniacs selected as SMs? Why do self-centered individuals (egomaniacs) give away so much of their time? Which came first, the ego or the shoulder patch? 3- Is three camping trips really that big of a deal? Youth soccer and basketball trophies have devolved into 'Participation Awards.' Eagle is much more than a participation award, but how could a Scout possibly earn Eagle if participation is waived? Full disclosure: this is a current hot button for me. Last month a boy whose face was vaguely familiar to me wanted me to sign off an Eagle Project form. I've been the SM for 2 years (ego almost fully swollen) and I had to search in the paperwork to find out his name. 4- It's not 'Mom Scouts'; it's 'Boy Scouts'. Even if 'MyBoy' went on the camping trips for her son, it shouldn't count.

Current Eagle projects teach a disdain for paperwork. A candidate learns that filling out almost useless forms is more important that actually doing something good that helps their community. To serve the boy in his adult future, devaluing bureaucracy is a good thing. To build good character in our men, Eagle projects do little. *** It will never happen, but can you imagine an Eagle Vigil? Go to a solitary location and camp alone for 5 days. Take food for 3 days. No electronics. Study the flames of your campfire and contemplate your future. Write a five year plan for: 1- How are you going to improve yourself and become more self-reliant? 2- What are you gong to do to help your family? 3- Where do you want to go with your faith? Find 5 types of plants that you are unfamiliar with. Identify them when you return. Build a survival shelter. Sleep your last night in that shelter using only materials and bedding that you accrued from the woods. Supplement your food with edible plants and protein you acquire from nature. *** That's the type of experience that a young man can look back upon and use to support his future character.

Methinks that 'The Game of Life' has spawned. And the hazing cited for that NYLT class presents the irresistible pun: 'Would Badger'.

Den Chief! Get a younger Boy Scout who needs a POR to help out as your Den Chief.

Easy: A scout new to your troop brings you a handfull of bluecards that were signed off in a Merit Badge Clinic over the summer. You know that some of those badges cannot be earned in a class on one Saturday. A few simple questions about what was done, truthfully answered by the scout, expose the shortcomings. -It's a tough situation for the SM: He never got to approve the MBC, so he didn't get to steer the Scout away from Clinic level work. If he accepts sub par MB work from this new Scout, what precendent has he set for the rest of his troop?