Stosh

First of all, welcome to the forum! If the scout made a bird house OR a feeding station OR a bird bath, and no birds showed up, the list is going to be quite short.....Really short, but it meets the requirement. If the scout is interested, he could always toss out a bucket of bird seed, birds need food, not necessarily a house or a bath. After all birds have survived millions of years without houses and took their baths in puddles. Whatever the scout wants to do should be interesting and fun for him him...not frustrating.

Relax, @@Krampus you have to remember these are Ivory Tower folks here that if they were to get too close to the rank and file, they might begin to understand what really going on and we couldn't let that happen. The only time any of these people have a tool of any sort in their hands is at a photo op. When has there ever been a photograph produced at one of these gatherings as a tent city? Where's the PR value in that?

Hey, now I don't have to put up with this stuff, ya know!

Hey, guys, can't use the word "cr..p" on the forum. The moderators beat the "cr..p" out of me when I inadvertently use it to describe something similar to what is being referred to here as well. This is why I have the disclaimer in my signature line in case it happens again. In the mean time it is probably a better idea to refer to this as "stuff" rather than "cr..p" or this might just get "dumped" into the I&P which we all know is the "Crapper" in honor of Thomas Crapper, the London plumber who invented the porcelain receptacle located in the "water closet" to handle "stuff" like this. Your mileage may vary, but I'm just giving a heads up!

OBEDIENT A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them. I guess if one is to be judged by the Oath and Law for Scout Spirit, "wink, wink, nod" is not a very good lesson for a Scouter to be teaching the boys nor following oneself. Everyone thinks they are doing things for the right reasons, but history proves itself out time and time again, those right reasons are totally wrong.

I'm thinking that those scouts who are taught to break the rules by scouters are the people that make up a portion of the prison population in our country. My brother worked in the Federal Bureau of Prison and was responsible for inmate transfers. One day he got a guy ready to be transferred to another facility, everything this prisoner owned was in box that had just been inventoried. Word came down the transfer vehicle wouldn't be able to make it, but would be there first thing in the morning. My brother told him to take his box of things back to his cell, don't open it, and tomorrow morning bring it back down when he hears that the transfer van will be here. The prisoner said, "No." My brother was a bit surprised by that and asked him what he meant by it, after all the rules were pretty simple. The man said with total sincerity, "If I could follow rules, I wouldn't be here in the first place." In a society where we are all bound to civility by a consensus of Laws, then NO, the individual is not more important than the rules. One doesn't break rules to accommodate the individual, we have enough self-esteem, entitlement narcissists out there filling our penal system the way it is without making more.

A couple of times I was given the opportunity to go fishing in Canada. The other guys paid for the gas, food, licenses, etc. It was basically a free vacation for me..... I was the cook.

My buddies and I were a "patrol" long before we got to scouts...... We were a patrol even after we all quit scouts. The patrol fell apart after we all went our ways after high school graduation. .... I thought this was supposed to be how it works for kids.

I think BSA has a zero-tolerance policy on making changes to the requirements.

If it works for non-BSA groups well, why doesn't BSA at least give it a try?

Oh contrare, mon ami @@NJCubScouter, As the OP of the thread, I titled it, "Interesting topic came up.....", I purposely put it in the I&P section, and behold! TA DAAAA! out of 132 posts every single one of them has been on topic, unlike many of the other threads.

I've never used this, sounds a bit confusing at first glance. I guess I like the idea of the Sweep being able to keep tabs on one boy and no one ever slips between the cracks kind of thing. However, with that being said, I can see the advantage of this in bear country where the boys would be all spread out over a greater distance and then if attacked, it might mean only one maybe two phone calls home at the most.

Any boy that pays and then doesn't show up gets hounded mercilessly by his PL! "Are you sick?", "Got problems we should know about?", "We have a campout next weekend, you going?", "Need a ride?", "We miss you!!", etc. It's all part of "Taking care of your boys." If a boy really does quit, the PL might back off on the contacts, but he doesn't give up until the boy doesn't recharter.

Gee, my definition of "active" in my troops has been: you pay your registration, you're active for another year. If you don't show up, you just wasted your money, but not my time. Works for me. I've never had an attendance problem in my troops. Boys are there because they want to be, not because they have to be. As long as I keep it that way, I'm not going to change.

I was Power of Attorney for my Dad who passed away last fall. At the moment of his death I was no longer POA, but I was Executor of his Trust. Now, to go down and close his account to pay off his bills, etc. etc. etc. I made 11 trips to the bank each time getting another rule I had to follow, work around some legal issue, have the right form, etc. It was a total joke! The frustration was horrendous and the hassle miserable. Needless to say with his passing his account was closed and locked so I couldn't get to his records for tax purposes without paying $5/sheet of paper from their records they printed off in 30 seconds. Seriously! Needless to say I will never again do business with that financial institution nor will I give anything but an honest evaluation of the situation when asked for a recommendation from others. We have all had examples of these kinds of things in our lives. If this was a major game changer in my life, something I had worked the majority of my life to attain and someone began making up rules that never were there in the first place? I would be more than majorly ticked off. This is not the kind of failure I want to use as an example for my boys to learn. Sorry Beav, but forgetting one's mess kit or rain gear is not the same thing as getting screwed over on the Eagle rank at the last minute by a SM who changes the rules.

From day one, I tell my boys they will learn more from mistakes than from doing it right. I expect failure so that when they get out in the real world they know how to handle it. If other people are having problems, they will also know how to help them (at all times). Any adult in the program expecting perfection is OCD and running an adult-run program. This is the boys' program! Every year they will make the same mistakes as the boys did last year. Some things get passed down as training and tradition, but somethings just have to be learned by each boy coming through the program. When the SM's act as if this is the first time he's seen this problem he's doing the boy and himself a terrible disservice. I can almost guarantee the first meal cooked by the NSP will not pass muster at any sleazy diner anywhere in the world. Heck, I've seen some troops where their Eagles can't even start the campfire let alone cook on it. They cook on a gas stove at home and at camp. What's the big deal. Cook me pancakes and bacon on a wood campfire and I'll be impressed and I'd even pay money for it! Toss in a cup of camp coffee and I'll double the tip!

There are two major teaching techniques I use frequently with my youth, both in and outside of Scouts. The first one is: "The Obvious Comment" A kid is sitting there with blisters on his feet and I look and say, "Bummer! That doesn't look good!" This technique works better on males because by the time females get to high school they have already mastered "The Look!" It does, however, opens the conversation up for further, more helpful comments if the boy responds back. The second one is: "Tacit Demonstration" At the end of a long day of hiking, the boots come off, the socks come off, and the feet get rinsed off and air-dried. Best part of the day! But then the boys notice there's no blisters, no bandaids, no duct-tape, just tired, stinky feet. Be sure to do this sitting next to the boy that dumps the boots and exposes bloody socks. Everyone in the world wants to know what you're doing differently than they are because they all have blisters.....Time for a lesson while you rinse out your socks to dry over-night.

My wife spent 25 years in Alaska working for the US Forestry service. She knows a thing or two about being outside in the elements. Last night she came home from kayaking in the area in time for supper. When she left the sun was shining and was a beautiful day for a float. When she got back the sun was shining and it was a beautiful day. But while she was on the water, a thunderhead passed through...MAJOR downpour with hail and high winds. When she got home she looked like a drowned rat. She hadn't taken her rain gear. Well, when she walked through the door I couldn't resist..... Me: How was the kayaking? (I did manage to get it out without laughing!) Mrs: Good, there was a really neat double rainbow out there and you missed it. What's for supper? I guess we've been married too long. Some lessons just aren't worth learning, seeing double rainbows is more important than rain gear.

Even if he didn't get his Eagle, congratulate him from me for getting the job done! That is something he needs to be proud of!

What one must always remember about the rules, someone makes them up, whether it be the Legislature or a School Board or even some sports federation and as long as everyone lives by the rule of law, everyone SHOULD be happy, but there are always a few on the extreme fringe out there that can't accept it and are basically blind to the anarchy and chaos they somehow feel they need to impose on others. Well if these people get in there and mess around, there's consequences. On the sports playing field it is generally benign and those that want to play by the rules just have to take their ball and go home to find a place where the nay-sayers won't find them for a while. But there are more serious situations that must be followed and we have some serious rules to control the situation with. At best there are those that drive consistently 5 mph over the limit thinking there's nothing wrong with that. These people are blind and arrogant in their attitude towards the law and the safety of others. Others are self righteous perfectionists that at worst are probably just annoying. But then there's what I call the blind hypocrites. They protest and complain about a certain issue while participating in its perpetuation!?! For example, the company I used to work for was international in nature. I met people, literally, from all over the world. I looked at that as a nice perk About 1/3 of my family is bi-lingual from Korean to Chinese, to Norwegian to Australian. Sure wish my Australian nephew would work on his English, though. Nice guy, but c'mon, can't understand a word of English! Racially we are a mix from white, to black-Korean, to Korean, to Chinese, to mixed, etc. And yet there are those out there that call me racist. I have no idea what criteria they are using to come to that conclusion. If I don't hold the door for a black person, I'm a racist. If I do hold the door for them, I"m a patronizing racist. Go figure. Christians who don't serve homosexuals in their bakery are chastised, demonized and criminalized. Yet rock stars and sports federations think nothing of not serving the entire state of North Carolina who is protecting it's citizens and no one points out the hypocrisy. What's with that? Hypocrisy flourishes in a polarized society. People only see one side of the issues and are deaf and blind to the other side. They are the enemy. Is this not the same dynamic we faced 150 years ago? Slavery had been around since the dawn of time, Now all of a sudden it became a demonic, immoral evil that needed to be removed. So, they discussed it for many years before taking up arms at which time millions of lives in this country were forever marked with sadness and sorrow. But now that's settled. Oh, wait, 100 years later they had to address the racial issue and make all sorts of noise, parade around with their signs and demonize the bigots of the world. We made massive law changes to address the issue. Now that's settled Oh, wait, we didn't really fix anything and we're going to drag out the old play-book and run this whole issue out into the public again and demonize our enemies yet once again. Intolerance, bigotry and hypocrisy are running rampant in a polarized society. Heck, we can't even get our own self-dedicated Scouts and Scouters to follow the Oath and Law. If we all believe in the values of Scouting as a good and positive thing for our people, why is it we continue to promote polarization, hypocrisy, bigotry, and intolerance of other Scouts and Scouters? What am I "seeing" that others aren't or am I just fooling myself by "seeing things" out there that really don't exist. What rule-book are we using today and what game is it we're supposed to be playing?

Even without the rank, he got the job done. I don't have a problem with boys who are Real Scouts regardless of rank.

Yes, but did they whine until the World Football Association buckled and had to change the rules to make the American more welcomed in the sport? Was there a big court case and did Americans go over to Europe and South America demanding they allow these new issues to be welcomed into the game? Of course then there's the extreme footballers in Australia that if you were to even suggest anything negative against their scrums and ever so slightly question what they are doing there, and you'll be keeping your teeth in a jar next to the bed at night. I kinda enjoy watching all three different "football" games. But then I'm a bit eccentric in my old age.

When I grew up in the society I did it was almost a virtue to have tolerance of others around you. With that being said, zero-tolerance seems to imply that intolerance is the route we find good in today's world and culture. Well, I just don't buy it, and I will continue to call a spade a spade and stay on record as one who does not believe in intolerance of any sort and people need to be judged with compassion and understanding if warranted to be judged at all.