Stosh

Welcome to the forum, and if you think the red berets were silly, the collarless green shirts beat that hands down.  Of course if that wasn't bad enough, the original wool shirts with a heavy wool tunic, heavy wool pants and gaiters wasn't a walk in the woods.... well, it was a walk in the woods. 

Heck, I remember being part of the extended Peanut Gallery watching Howdy Doody do his marionette dancing around and Clarabell the Clown talk with his bicycle horn.  And yes, Lil' Rascals were standard fare on Saturday morning well before it was taken over with cartoons.  Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck.

On 12/13/2017 at 3:55 PM, Stosh said:

I do it because I was asked to do it.

When one has the background I do, people would like my input into the program.  I was all set to leave scouting many times throughout the past 45+ years and only flat-out quit when I was in Scouts as a youth.  When my boy quit I was tempted to join him.  When the troop's adult led policies were running rampant, I was tempted to quit.  When I was asked to step down as SM, I was tempted to stay out of it.  I have no skin in the game other than people (the Council this last time) asking me to do something.  Then I stay on.  

I prefer doing my outdoors selfishly with my wife.  We do a lot together and I don't have to worry about what the boys are up to at the moment.  I can relax, I can enjoy the fire and I don't have to worry about a thing.  I don't care if it's a church that asks me to help with their youth program, the American Red Cross wants me to deploy to a disaster, or the BSA wants me to fill a spot on some roster, I still fall prey to "help other people at all times."  

As the years creep up on me, I'm going to need to do better at prioritizing.  The church's mission is clear, the ARC's mission is clear, the BSA's mission is not.  It will probably be the first to go.

It really pays off to have a close contact with the tribes.  Our tribe up here is the Winnebago (Ho-Chunk) and they have been very gracious to our boys.  Again a nearby reservation really makes a difference in one's outlook on the Indian culture.  Even the Indian Ceremonial Program at the Wisconsin Dells (tourist trap) has gone away.  It was once the main draw to the region.  It's been replaced with amusement parks and water parks.  It's really a shame to see it gone.

Yeah, I hear you on the pride issue.  But I find it easy to swallow that pride when I'm trying to help out the boys.  At least that's the self-justification I feed myself.  I do find that the older I get the easier it is to take a pass on the pride issue.  I ain't 17 anymore, it's been a while.

This problem persists all over.  I don't care if it's a scout group, a church group, a civic group, whatever, these political control conflicts are just a part of the process.  Unless one either fully understands the dynamics of running with the big dogs or they take a back seat and keep quiet.  There are other options in that group, but they will drive a person nuts in the process.

So much for a Scout is Trustworthy.  I'm thinking that most galas have the Red Carpet at the front door, not at the service door in the back.  But then again, I could be wrong.

18 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I once hammocked in a Tropical Storm with 35 to 45 mph gusts perpendicular to my hammock. I prayed real hard not to sway all the way into the trees. I actually fared better than the boys in tents. 

 njdrt-rdr I recommend practcing rigging, knotting, and getting in the Hammock over a weekend at home. It is pretty hard to set up on a dark Friday night. Always embarrassing when a scout wanders over to help me out.

Embarrassing?  A scout who helps other people at all times?  What's wrong with you?  I practice a little "Creative Incompetence" at times to provide the opportunity for a scout to come up and say, "Mr. Stosh, you need some help with that?"  On a serious note, that's how I identify my future leaders, those that are willing to roll up their sleeves and help other people at all times.  The magic words from the scout's mouth, "What can I do to help?" is music to my ears.

I like @Eagle94-A1 's illustration over @RememberSchiff's  It doesn't point out the obvious segregationalism being promoted by the BSA. 

Having grown up in the 1960's, I do know the code words "separate but equal" and what that really meant.  The more I hear about this process, the more I realize it is some arbitrary half-measure of appeasement.  That's not going to last long, I'm afraid.

Really?  Sitting around watching the adults cook is a fun program for Tigers?   For me that would rank right up there with watching paint dry.  When they're done eating, do they get to watch the adults clean up?

When I taught Webelos overnight training for DL"s it was always interesting how just two people could lead the class and somehow breakfast just appeared, then lunch and then dinner.  While one of us taught, the other did behind the scenes camp chores and we had an extensive discussion on this very topic.  How, with just two people, one could maintain the attention and interest of the participants and still get the camp chores done.  Even the adults hadn't noticed and one can even more easily apply this to Tigers.  The whole idea of that demonstration was to show the importance of keeping the kids busy with some really fun stuff and still being able to get the "adult" stuff done behind the scenes.

@5thGenTexan one needs to focus on the boys having a great time outdoors.  For the most part outdoors to them is walking down city streets or maybe going to a city park for a picnic with the folks.  Nawww!  This has to be an adventure, walking trails into the woods, looking at trees, listening to birds, finding squirrels, picking berries, and anything else that they have either never experienced or never noticed before.

Throw out an old hula hoop on the ground in a meadow and have the boys find all the fun stuff inside.  Then do it in the woods.  Stop and find tadpoles in the creek.  Hear a bullfrog, try to find him.  You might come across a turtle sunning themselves on a log.  Hear a woodpecker, go find him.  Heck, boys go bananas over finding bunny poop.

I took my granddaughter out on one of these nature adventures and we went into a swamp area where there were tons of birds, muskrats, beavers and sure 'nuff we come across a dead racoon.  For at least a week, that's all she could talk about.  It was the last thing before going to bed and the first thing in the morning.  My daughter still hasn't forgiven me for "breaking her child."    Now when I go over there and invite her to a great adventure, her eyes light up and she runs for her coat.  My daughter gives me the death-ray stare, and off we go.

This is the wonderment one has at this age after all.  I might have been only 4 years old at the time, but I remember my dad bringing home the new camper that became my second home for many years.  It was the catalyst for opening a world of camping and being outside.  If one can do that for a Tiger, then they are well on their way to being a great Boy Scout. 

Please, please, please, don't sit the boys down on a log to watch the adults do anything.

37 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Well if we don't want men alone with girls, why allow women to be alone with boys? As I see it, the girls are not in the program yet, but their is already a double standard in how we treat them.

Bingo!  Welcome to the world of co-ed youth programs.  It gets worse.

  I guess that leaves me with being able to tell Sven and Ole jokes.  Bummer, now my Polish buddies won't even talk to me anymore.

under synonyms they left out snarky.

Or as the moderators allow me to say, "Oh, "stuff", I didn't know that." 

Maybe we need to highlight all sarcasm in a certain text color so those that don't have a sense of humor won't be confused.

1 hour ago, Oldscout448 said:

So why exactly do we need to " toe-the-line with PC" ?

Because if you don't, you are immediately thrown into the "them" camp. 

That's why I do a lot of research on foraging.     9 acres of woodlands is what I live on, and a creek runs through the neighbor's yard.  Like I said, a dollar bill salad is all yours for the taking if the economy goes bad.

The reason for the double standard is that everyone knows all male scouters are pedophiles, but female scouters aren't.  So much for the emphasis on a Scout is Trustworthy.

12 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I was referring to Pack Den and Webelos Overnighters. That is how I interpreted it. Seems like they are making it harder for single genders. It has been a few years since cub scouts...is that the rule now? If the Webelos Den/Patrol did a overnighter now do all the adult leaders be all men? 

I do believe that an adult parent must accompany all Cub over-nighters.  What difference does it make then unless only dads can go if it's a male den and moms when it's a female den.  What if 2 male Cubs want to bunk together and one boy is accompanied by dad and the other mom?  Now we're up to mega tent cities if there's 3 tents required for 2 families.  One's going to need a 500 page reference book to keep track of all the new policies pertaining to how this all shakes out.  Or worse yet if non-custodial step-dad shows up with a step-daugther.....

2 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

All I'm saying is that National should think about and study it.  Maybe ask some Native American leaders whether they feel "honored" by OA ceremonies.  You don't speak for them and neither do I.  Maybe they think it's a great idea.  I don't know.

As for Native Americans and African Americans, I did not know there was a contest going on over who was deprived of their rights the longest.  But if you're keeping score, you might want to consider that while citizenship was extended to African Americans in 1868, in large portions of the country they were not permitted to actually exercise most of the rights of citizenship until almost 100 years later.  Which of course, does not make the injustices done to the Native Americans any more or less compelling.  They stand on their own.

We had an "offensive"  name to our Lodge a few years back.  We checked with the local tribal councils and they didn't have a problem with it.  National made us change it anyway.  Same for one of our local high school mascots.  The vast majority of students were of Indian descent and the tribal council petitioned the state to keep the name, the state denied it.

I wasn't "keeping score", I was reiterating history.  Yes, the Indians had the right to vote just like the Blacks, but it wasn't until the 1960's that BOTH groups were assimilated with the Equal Rights Act.  Yes, I remember IN MY LIFETIME the problems the Black were having, but coming from an area near an Indian reservation, I heard the problem coming from that arena as well.

7 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

That's not what I heard.  The speaker said there must be male and female leaders on every Cub Scout outing, unless, the outing is all boys or all girls.  Then, the leadership may be all of the same gender.

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Two male leaders for a female den?  Highly unlikely, but it's going to be acceptable to have 2 female leaders for a male den.  Just watch and see.  This is going to get ugly.

I'm thinking the rules will follow the existing rules of co-ed in the other programs.

However, the problem will now arise that every girl den will need 2 female leaders and vice versa for boys.  Before ya know it, we're gonna need the Cliff Notes for War and Peace to keep track of who's who.

1 minute ago, David CO said:

Sarcasm? Why would anybody think that someone calling our male scouters "he-men" might be sarcasm? 

Now there's a sarcastic statement if I ever saw one. 

38 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

Well if they're "just" dollars, I'd be happy to be the custodian of those dollars, if you're offering. 

Ever wonder why Fort Knox is so well guarded?  Conspiracy theorists say it's because there is no gold in it and if the word got out the dollar isn't worth the paper it's printed on our economy would collapse.  If that ever happens I'll send everything I got. 

I don't know what the big deal is about ladders.  I fell off a 50' ladder once as a kid.   .... good thing I was only on the second rung.

13 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

He-man woman-haters who will have trouble with change involving females/coed is a compliment?  Oh really?

Relative to some shots dished out here, perhaps it is, but that characterization communicates in-and-of itself.

7 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

You may be right, but I took it as sarcasm. Anything other wouldn't make sense.

I put in a bit of a snarky response, but coming from @qwazse I took it as a friendly poke.