Stosh

I go along with the rest of the comments.  All kids at this age struggle, it's a part of life.  One of the easy parental "fixes" is to take something away from the child as a punishment.  It never works.  All that happens is that the parent doubles down on a struggling situation.  Yes, scouting is important in the development of the boys and thus should be one of the last resorts for punishment.  After all there are plenty of other "punishments" that could be used more effectively, i.e. Xbox, computers, cell phone, TV, and hanging out at the mall with his friends.  As mentioned, one would not withhold church activities, even though I have had parents pull that one at times as well.

One must consider the big picture here.  If one wishes their child to get the most out of these changing times in their lives, those that are the busiest are often times the most productive.  It is common in adulthood that if someone needs something done, it is better to ask a busy person than someone who has a lot of free time.  They organize better, plan better and tend to stay out of trouble if they have a little extra on their plate.  At that age, I had band, church, school, family, friends, and a whole lot of things going on in my life.  Yes, I was not an accomplished person in any one of the subjects, but I learned to balance them accordingly.  That wasn't an easy task for an ADD person, but it did develop skills later in life that allowed me to take on more than the average person when it came to life activities.  The list of extra curricular activities I was involved with in high school was quite a long list in my senior year book. Band, pep band, jazz band, marching band, concert band, scouts, CAP, French Club, Latin Club, Rifle Club, Photography Club, AFS Club, etc. all competed for my time.  While I never was an officer in any of these activities, they were important part of my growing up.  I graduated in the lower half of my class, advised to "get a job" when I graduated from high school instead of going on to college, and ended up with 3 post-high school degrees, all of which I graduated with a 3.5 GPA or higher.  One with a 4.0 GPA.  I took marching band, jazz band and concert band all the way through college as overload activity just for "fun".  Whether it be sports, band, theater, or any one of multiple activities, my parents NEVER forbid me from doing any of it or used any of these activities as punishment for poor school accomplishments. 

So now later in life, I have Scouting, Red Cross, Church, and my plate is still full, yet the wife never complains that I don't have enough time for her.  She just left for a 3 day cross-country ski trip with her gal friends and I'm heading off to the Red Cross office to work. 

So, it's is my contention that the parents who "take away" from any of the scout's opportunities is doing it all wrong.  It's a time of new opportunities, exploration, testing out new things, and finding out what's really important in life.  The scouts that learn how to do that from an early age will struggle a lot, but will end up a better person for it.  Just ask my quilting, knitting, cross-country skiing, kayaking, wife who worked for the US Forestry Service in Alaska while raising 4 kids. 

Middle school is the first step in learning how to be an adult and Scouting, school, church, hanging out with buddies, and family all need to be part of it.  No one finds their way in life with parents making all the determinations for the path they need to take along the way.

Sorry, parents, you do not have an advocate for taking away things from their child with me.  I promote, the more they take on, the better prepared in life they will be.   They all have to learn to balance all of these things to be successful in life.  Note to parents: Yes, your child has to break the bonds of family with you in order to make a family of his own.  It's called growing up.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your project!

1 hour ago, blw2 said:

nice....

my mom had saved my old cub shirt from the early/mid 1970's and passed it on to me when my son started cubs.  This was in the day of community strips and before the council shoulder patch.  My son showed little interest & i seriously doubt he'll want it.

I've been toying with the idea of sending it to the council where my pack was..... Dubuque IA

either that or trying to sell it on ebay....

I used to work with the NE IA Council back in the mid 70's, but I was working at setting up Exploring Posts.

My boys like Duck Wars.

Everyone gets a 2' section of closet rod or old broom handle. 

Squat down with the rod behind your knees.  Hook your arms behind the rod and lock fingers in front of knees.  From that position each side attacks the other side and tries to knock them over.  If they get knocked over or release their hands, they are OUT.  Last duck standing wins.

Welcome Vicki,

www.inquiry.net has American historical games, might be interesting to review or incorporate a chapter on that.

I like BS 4 Mom, Dad and the kids.

I wonder how long it's going to be before they bring back the eagle for adults?  Then everyone in the family can be bonding together.

21 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Yes, a lot of people are being competitive about it. And they don't realize they are just hurting their kids.

 

Since when has that ever held any helicopter parent back?  It's not the journey, it's the destination and who gets there first.  Just remember, the bumper sticker that reads, "My Son is an Eagle Scout" is not there for the scout's benefit.

No difference than if a new pack started with 5 boys, all of different ages.  Yet another loophole view outside the box.  They'll torque it to make it work.

First of all welcome to the forum!

Keeping track of the unit's funds is pretty much a no-brainer.  Keep track of what's coming in and what's going out.  Keep receipts and pay only what one is directed to pay.  Keep the vouchers of what has been paid out.  Paper trail either on the books or digitally so as to cover all your bases in an audit.  The real headache is the ISA accounts.  That's a minefield fraught with political intrigue and extra work that isn't necessary for maintaining the financial integrity of the unit.

Personally, I would not take on the task of treasurer in a unit with ISA's.

Not a problem @WisconsinMomma it just means the competitive field has less participants.  I don't care either, but there are a ton of people out there that think differently and they are driving the bus.

9 hours ago, Cambridgeskip said:

I've never been completely convinced by that, at least not in a scouting context.

What is true is that girls become more articulate than boys at an earlier age which can give the impression of maturing more quickly. I think it a mistake though to necessarily see that as a sign of excessive wisdom. Boys and girls tend to bring different things to the troop/patrol. 

With 45+ years of working with co-ed groups (in the US, anyway) it doesn't take a clinical psychologist to notice that the gals dominate not only in the maturity issues, but also pick up quicker leadership and have no problem with asserting themselves at the expense of others.  The guys tend to simply let them do their thing and basically ignore them for the most part.  Thus co-ed groups are far less competitive than are all male or all female groups at that age.

One of the first things everyone is going to notice his that the gals will attain eagle quicker and far more often in that this maturity and focus is a lot more intense and because of this imbalance the boys will stand down.  

I was unable to go to summer camp last summer and one of my ASM's stepped in to cover for me.  She had to bring her granddaughter whom she was babysitting.  The camp approved it with the stipulation she not participate.  Well, after 5 minutes that stipulation went out the window and the only complaint was "she took over everything".  When I asked what they did about it they simply said they let her and then ignored her whenever possible.  In spite of the fact I have broached the subject in passing comments, the boys show no interest in going to summer camp this year. 

Church youth groups take on a better blend of co-ed than will the BS4G groups.  There is no reason to be competitive in other co-ed groups, but attaining the goals of scouting will lure the more driven females.  Those who aren't driven will be satisfied with other non-scouting, non-competitive groups.

7 hours ago, Cambridgeskip said:

I guess this is the broader question.

If we put aside the specific situation, at what point should an adult intervene and say this really isn't a good idea? I'm sure you'd agree on a point of safety where the decision was going to get someone hurt or worse. But are there other times?

 

I have only three rules where adults can jump in and interfere.

1) Safety first  (you covered that one)

2) Look and act like a Scout (breaching the Scout Oath and Law)

3) Have fun (deals with homesickness, bullying, boring program, etc.) 

No one wants to PR the fact that they are second place.  I give it a few weeks and this will be old news.

By the time the program rolls out, first place will be old news.  It will be, at best, a 5 minutes of fame, followed by a real lack of motivation reserved only for a few.  After the "champion" has been given appropriate lauds, what's left for the rest of the girls is a tweaked boy program that they may or may not find enriching enough to actually put in the effort.  Just like boys reaching the uphill push through star and life, age factors, competitive activities and the realization that there are those that didn't have to do all the hoops to earn it, they will simply fall by the wayside, just like the boys.  Quick fixes and flashes of fame really don't bode well for tomorrow's reality.

21 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

In this case, it appears the odds were just high enough for a tragedy to occur.

And the report is going to say the mast was too high or the wire too low.  We don't need a report to know that.

That presumes that one sees the power lines before going under them.  Was there sun glare making it difficult to see the lines?  Was there something else that I can't think of right now that could make it difficult to see the lines?  None of us know the answers to those questions, or to the question of what the power lines were doing that close to the water in the first place.  

A misjudgment on the part of the sailors.  That pretty much sums it up. 

I don't think RS missed that point at all.  That point is why the report should be released (with anything that is particularly sensitive redacted, since these were youths.)

And if one were to read what I wrote, I didn't say RS missed the point, I said he omitted a third option.

And my response was, what was the need for the report to be released?  It is obvious an accident occurred.  If every car accident, boating accident, airplane accident, or accident of any type needed to be disclosed in a report, would it in fact reduce accidents? I think not.  Thus RS thinks the report should be disclosed, and I asked, why?   I don't think the question has been answered yet.  Learn from the mistakes of others?  Why were these boys not properly trained in the first place?  That has nothing to do with the report.  Will disclosing the report insure it will never happen again?  Probably not very likely.  Car accident reports have been produced right from the very beginning of automobile history.  Has any of them stopped accidents from happening?  Nope.  Will there be reports?  Will they help?  Nope. 

So far the only value in releasing the report would be for litigious reasons so people know who it is they are supposed to be suing.  Who is negligent?  Who is to blame? etc.  Then releasing the report would be fine.  Those families involved in that process can hire lawyers to view the reports.  The rest of us don't need to know.

Alas poor GBB, I knew him.

I let my boys know up front that they have 100% of my trust in all their decisions they may make.  However, if that trust is ever broken, they will never again achieve 100%  I then leave it up to them to decide how they wish to proceed.  Out of the past 45+ years, that trust has been broken maybe a half-dozen times.  The interesting thing about broken trust, the boys that want to earn it back work harder than those that simply maintain it in the first place.

The biggest obstacle to this whole thing is whether or not the adults wish to trust in the first place.  A few, like me, do.  Most don't.  The boys can spot that dynamic a mile off and conclude, why try to build trust that will never happen.  I agree with them.  I wouldn't even bother trying.

The missiles in North Dakota were all underground in silos.  One would not know they were missiles unless someone pointed them out.  They were not marked with anything other than No Trespassing signs.  The command posts were nondescript buildings with no identification signs on them other than No Trespassing signs.  For the most part, only the locals knew they even existed.

The whole idea behind missiles is their locations need to be kept a secret.  One does not know how many missiles are sitting around the country in the back of semi-trailers off-base ready to be used in an emergency.

You missed the most important option: Learn from other people's mistakes.  It's far less painful and accomplishes the same thing.

We had them in  the schools in the Midwest.  Would only hold about 50 people.  In a town of 5000, one's odds of getting there were slim to none.

Yeah, like 50-75 all at one time..... Make it a ticker-tape parade.

First of all, what's the odds of hitting a power line over a lake?

Everyone knows that when a metal rod hits an electrical line, something bad's going to happen.  The only "good" that will come from the report is who was at fault so the other two families can sue.

This crap happens all the time.  Daughter driving a car with mom in passenger seat. hits my dad's car.  Mom sues my dad for being on the road and her daughter for driving into my dad.  Both insurance companies pay up.  That kind of PR makes national news.

Better to leave it as is and learn from it in ways other than just the cause of the accident.  

1) When one is piloting a sail boat, don't go under power lines.

2) Hmmmm, I can't think of any other lessons to be learned here.

If all the gal wants is AOL, she can be ready to cross over well before 12/1/18.  If she gets into the program in January, is 9 or 10 years of age, knock off AOL be 10 and AOL, she can join the former Boy Scouts program.

Unless one is a looky-loo, why would it make any difference?