Stosh

At one time North Dakota was the third most powerful nuclear power in the world.  With Nike silos every 10-20 miles and 2 B-52 bases, it was NOT the place to live.

20 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

I believe that the bigger PR disaster would be for the first (or any) female Eagle to get the rank due to a change in the requirements, a loophole, an exception, a "creative interpretation" of an existing rule, or anything else other than the fulfillment of the same requirements that a boy must meet.

And, whatever the Eagle may mean to any of us, to National "Eagle Scout" is a "brand."  They may regard it as their most valuable "brand," even more than the name of the organization itself.  I do not think they want to do anything to dilute that brand.

Well look at that, the idealistic me and the cynical me turned up in the same post.

I don't think BSA National gives a hoot what anyone "believes".  As far as branding is concerned 100 years of Boy Scouts ranks a bit higher than the Eagle rank.  They didn't concern themselves with any moral issues with the homosexual or the confused sexual issues.  and they quickly changed tack when the winds of social issues blew from completely different directions, i.e. too militaristic, younger ages, female participation. career development, STEM, and a multitude of other issues coming on the scene in the past 50 years.   With a track record like that,  what makes anyone think what comes out of national will be anything to do with branding.  If anyone brings to the surface an issue that isn't Kosher, it doesn't mean a thing and one can't send them off to their room if one doesn't like their actions.  For some reason, people don't always think the "handwriting on the wall" is of any validity.

Keep it in mind that females at this age are scientifically proven to be on average 2 years more mature than males.  With that being said, one could feel fairly confident that she would be on par with an equivalent 13 year old male.

And when all the dust settles, BSA National can do anything it wishes to do and we all know how smoothly that plays out in the program.

Honorary degrees are just as valid as earned degrees.  They are only issued on a PR basis to promote the institutions that give them out.  This "precedent" is as American as apple pie.  Never underestimate the workings of an organized committee of any size or nature.

2 hours ago, ZScout5 said:

BSA has just made available blue cub skorts for girls.

http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa/items/skort-cs-6-12.html#.Wk-Hd3VMHqA

 

And what makes anyone think they are just for girls?

Boys don't wear uniform pants, why would girls be any different?

1 hour ago, Sentinel947 said:

Would you give Eagle to a Trails Life scout who decided he wanted Eagle instead of whatever award it is they give out?

Let's just be honest. Mrs. Ireland has not done the work, because she's not eligible to do the work. I can't study advanced coursework and then go to the local university and demand my masters degree, because I "did the work."  I have to follow the requirements as the university lays them out if I want their degree. Unfortunately there are no procedures in place for a situation like this, because Mrs. Ireland is the first who's the challenged the situation in this way. There are specific exceptions made for Scouts from other eligible Scouting organizations worldwide, and she doesn't meet those criteria either. 

The BSA may roll over and play dead to avoid bad PR with this case, but it doesn't mean they should. It's very unfortunate for Mrs. Ireland to miss out on earning Eagle, but every American Girl since the founding of the BSA has missed out on earning Eagle, and while I'm happy that's going to change in the future, it's going to be girls that earned the award following the requirements and doing things the right way, the same way all their male peers have earned it. And that is the only equality worth having. 

Or, BSA may capitalize on the positive PR Ms. Ireland has already garnered and simply just go with the flow as it has a track record of doing.  She is the media's poster-girl for the movement, has been going through the motions, earned the Canadian rank, and has the right connections.  Why would they not want Ms. Ireland to be in the spotlight.  It would be a PR disaster NOT to make her the first Eagle.

A movie doesn't need to be good or bad, it just needs to bring in people to pay money.  Kinda like registration fees.  What's the big deal if a Webelos cross over doesn't like scouts and quits after 3 months.  Does he get his money back?  Nope.

Ever wonder what the #1 motivator is?  MONEY.   Even socialist countries have Black Markets.

Whether the movie goers liked the movie is irrelevant, they paid for a ticket and as far as the movie industry is concerned, that's all that counts.

People have been jumping the gun on this issue for many years now.  Maybe National is just scrambling to catch up.  I'm thinking there are a lot more dynamics going on here than what can be seen from the surface.

If people are simply doing what they want, BSA lost control over this whole issue a long time ago and did nothing to stop it.

One also has to consider the issue of  YPT training this girl may not have taken, the insurance that she isn't under and the consequences of anything she may do in that role.  Like my mother used to say, it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. 

Why is it important that the forum give feedback on this issue.  Shouldn't the patrol members be the one's to give the yea or nay?  After the past 10 years of having the boys in the patrol pick their own leaders, the problems have been reduced to near zero.  Occasionally a PL will not uphold his responsibilities and get replaced, but for the most part when the boys pick their leadership, they really can't complain down the road. 

As far as the gal's age, it shouldn't be a big problem.  I have had a lot of new scout patrols that have not selected an older scout to be their leader and have picked from within their new ranks and have done just fine.  A little more guidance by the Troop Guide, but never any issues to speak of.

Because rocket stoves burn at just one temperature..hot, one has to adjust the cook surface height over the stove or diffuse the heat coming off the stove. 

One needs to learn both ways.  Diffused heat is easier to control.  I use a cast iron skillet and use it like the top of a wood burning stove.  When I go backpacking, I go with a tripod/clothes hanger that makes height adjustments easier.

The YouTube wood stove your buddy built is not a rocket stove, more of a hobo stove.  Not quite as efficient as a rocket stove, but as long as it's only burning wood, it's a good camp stove.

I remember making tuna can stoves in scouts many moons ago.  They worked fairly well, but didn't produce much heat in reality.

Which only goes to re-emphasize the obvious.... people will do anything for money, including selling their souls.  There's a lesson to be had in secular moralism or lack thereof.

Just a few rules to consider......

As you may be aware, beginning in the fall of 2018 (new school year) girls will be able to join the Cub Scouts program with-in your pack, if adopted by your chartered partner.

If your Cub Scout Pack would like to participate in the early launch “Pilot Program” which will kick off January 15, 2018 we need you to respond to this email by January 4, 2018.

To be eligible to participate in the “Pilot Program”, you must commit to the following:

1. Approval by the Council The Cub Scout Pack is in Good Standing and has the capacity (Leadership, Facilities, etc.) to participate.
2. The Chartered Partner and Pack Committee adopts the use of the Family Pack Model (Both Boys Dens and Girls Dens in their Pack).
3. All Leaders in the Pack must be trained in their positions and current on Youth Protection training.
4. Must abide by the Two Deep Leadership Requirements.
   1. All Boy Den – No Change.  One registered adult leader and one other adult; on of which must be 21 years old.
   2. All Girls Den – One registered adult leader and one other adult, one of which must be 21 years old, and Youth Protection trained, and adult female must be present.
5. Advancement – A written program plan must be developed with a time line to accomplish all rank requirements by May 31, 2018 in this compressed time frame.
6. Register a minimum of 4 girls (grades k-4) into the existing pack in an all-Girl Den.
7. Use the current Cub Scouting program and resources.
8. Uphold membership policies.
9. Provide data & statistics on their activities and experiences to help improve the formal roll out.
10. Cub Scout Packs must participate in either Cub Scout/Webelos Resident Camp on July 29 – August 4 or Week-long Day Camp on August 13 – 17. 

We are very excited about this new venture for Cub Scouts and if your Cub Scout Pack is interested in participating in the “Pilot Program” or if you have any questions do not hesitate to contact me.

We kick them out the door.  It's winter camping, they need to be sledding and having snow ball fights.

yes

That's kinda the same approach used by the people on the Titanic.    Keep everyone busy and maybe no one will notice.

Our council just announced the go-ed option and invited units to join in a "pilot" program for their units.  It feels like a "day late, dollar short" approach to something as controversial as all of this has been.

Because of the limited NT program, I have taken my boys only on independent BWCA trips.  An experienced guide, be it either BSA or non-BSA is necessary in the planning stages of the trip.  I have made multiple trips to the area and never used NT.  We got our own permits, established our own routes, organized the boys, acquired the gear, planned the meals and did our own thing.  Only once did we plan on doing a 50-miler.  The rest of the trips were pretty much fishing and multiple site camping. 

The longest trip we planned was for 9 days due to the limit of how much food one needs to start out with and still keep the canoes afloat.  Like backpacking, weight is an issue.  The standard canoe capacity is 350#'s.  With older boys who are large enough to carry a 80# canoe, the load capacity goes down to compensate for the heavier personnel.  The permit only allows 9 people on a team so that means either 3 or 4 canoes, one of which needs 3 people.  I don't know the load limit of a kevlar canoe, but one can get their hands on freighter canoes, the load limit jumps up to 750#.. We took my 2 freighters and 2 standard canoes.  1 standard canoe was just the 3 people. The other could carry a load of about 50#'s besides the two people.  The freighters could carry 2 people plus 400# of equipment each on average. 

All in all it takes as much planning as the standard backpack trek.

I would think that one could also have a solo kayaker instead of a 1 canoe/3 people that would allow for an extra 50-70#'s and not overload the one canoe, but that means yet another boat to portage.

It would be nice to know what kinds of canoes NT carries and what their load capacities are.  Our "guide" was a scouter that had gone on many floats using commercial outfitters in the area.  We could have taken on more gear, but would be restricted to calm waters so as not to swamp the overloaded canoes on windy days.  Even as lightly loaded as we were, there were days we "sat out the weather".

It isn't a matter of time, but time will tell.

Welcome to the forum @Frostbyte.  The safety factor is one thing, but the longer to boil issue is the BTU's.  Alcohol is not as "hot" per same amount of fuel as the fossil fuels.  Therefore one has to carry more fuel weight to make up the difference, thus the negative side of using it for backpacking.  The eco-friendly option would be to burn wood more efficiently and not carry any fuel, just the stove.  At summer camp I only use a homemade rocket stove for all my cooking and it works out really well.  The issue of BTU's is solved with this process in that the wood burns more intensely and thus the need for  less wood is evident while speeding up  the cooking process.  My one big issue with the rocket stove is that it can get too hot too quickly if not attended to properly.

There's a strong argument for that as well.

Naw, too much work for the adults.  The PL's are selected by the boys in the patrol.  Everything else as far as POR's are concerned are generated by consensus of the PL's.  They need a QM, they get one.  They need a Scribe they get one.  They need an SPL, they get one.  If the boy isn't doing the job for them, they get someone else.  No coaching, directing, influencing, required.  If the boys are happy, I"m happy.  If they aren't happy, they are responsible for "fixing it."

On 1/1/2018 at 10:32 PM, NJCubScouter said:

Tahawk, the top one is an Assistant Scoutmaster patch, right? (Since it has gold rather than silver.)

What is the bottom one?

On 1/2/2018 at 5:53 AM, RememberSchiff said:

Is the bottom one an upside down Eagle Scout (red-white-blue) ribbon?

It's French.

I carry the Scout camp knife I had as a Scout.  The only time I don't have it with me is when I am at airports since 9/11.

My service stars from my scout days are still on my uniform today.

The State strip from my scout historic uniform is the same one I had as a kid, I have changed out the community strip however.

The pup tent I used as a scout is now used as a ground cloth to protect the floor of my tent or serve as a floor to my current military pup tent.

My scout handbook is still on the shelf on my den.