Gonzo1

Sounds good at the outset, I wish him well. However, suppose Johnny has ADD/ADHD or something else and is on a "medication holiday" and leaves camp without the $30 kit. Now what? You still got a kid out there who wandered off, doesn't have matches, mirror, poncho, and stays lost for 4 days.

At last, the replies here have ended With ryhme, each stance defended We love one and all Together we stand tall This contest should not be extended

She thinks she's a mom who knows. she's on the Troop Cmte too. She and parents lke her don't know that they allow their son to set a bad example AND disrupt patrol method and thumb their nose at the youth and adult leadership. So, what to do?

This weekend our troop particiapted in a crossing over ceremony and the pack had family camping behind the church at the same time. We got 4 new scouts and all seem enthusiastic. Here's the problem. Sally is COR (really acting as ACM also), her son Billy helped put on the event. As a "reward" for Billy, Sally told him he could sleep in a church building instead of a tent. When I and the other ASM asked why he was staying inside instead of a tent, he said his mom said he could. Sally overheard and told the other ASM, "I'm his mom and I told him he could stay in here. He worked hard and I said so, that's it." On Beavah's advice to go slow, I wisely chose not to enter the fray, however, how can ASM (and the weak SM) keep parents from interefering? I know what I WOULD say, but I'd like to hear from the forum. Thanks, Gonzo

Our PLC plans trips within 2 hours from home. There is a lot to do near home.

I agree with SR540Beaver, The project should be closer to home. I'm sure that it would be a worthy project, but maybe for a church group to coordinate. Perhaps the lad could lead that effort through his church. Eagle project should be close to home. OGE, I was waving a bic lighter reading your post, sniffle, wipe tear, sniff, aw c'mon OGE, home is wear you hang your hat, not necessarily where you used to hang your sombrero.

uz2bnowl, I re-read your earlier post about not driving for weekends, 8 days a month without driving. Remember right after the attack on September 11? No planes flew for 4 or 5 days. That's a lot! But the environmental lefty's didn't say anything about how much cleaner the air was. It didn't make a difference in the big picture. That's all. jg

Gainesville, GA 73 degrees F Should be about 87, so I guess it's getting cooler, not warmer. We better outlaw lightning, because lightning is burning up the forests, at the rate the forests are burning, ther won't be a country in about 4 months. We'd better outlaw pinto beans while we're at it, you know, methane and "green house gas" Of course I'm being silly for a minute. The political left has taken GW as it's sacred cow. Only the left are "real" "authorites" on the subject. The atmosphere is an elastic medium, that is, high pressure here, low pressure there. High temp here, low temp there. Temperatures are cyclical. They go up and down. Col wind from Canada brings cooler air, warm air from the Gulf of Mexico brings warmer air. Let's be good stewards, don't pollute, put out fires and eat more beans. Packsaddle, I don't know about the measuring thingy.

CNY, Remind them that "Back in Feb. when a budget was created, we discussed yearly dues to raise the funds. The youth decided that they would be willing to do fundraisers instead of dues." Now it's time to step up and do the fundraiser. Besides, cleaning tables doesn't sound so bad.

OGE, LOCAL, I didn't intend to cause boredom on campouts, but rather to eliminate the "check in the box" route to advancement. Making a "useful camp gadget" seems to be a tripod by default. I intended to have proficiency, not a sign-off. While discussing our recent backpacking trip with another ASM ast week, I sugested (as the boys agreed - practice makes perfect) that our scouts hike in and out of most campouts and get away from pure car camping. He said I would be "adding to the requirement". I said, No, motorized transportation ends here, now use the heel to toe express and start walking. The other ASM said, "no patrol boxes? no coolers?", I said cars can bring them in, scouts should carry their own gear. No need to look like 'dorks' at a camp-o-ree and if a road is dangerous, drive in. BTW, I'd walk too, with a pack. I think I'd drop "Family Life" from the list all together and put some of those requirements in T,2,1. Bring back Skill Awards, return Cooking, swimming and lifesaving. Maybe Wilderness survival. Though nearly every Eagle earns it, besides, it's fun. Gonzo Edited part: Lose the Elvis collars, lost the epaulets and loops. I feel like Captain Crunch! In other words, get a better shirt. (This message has been edited by Gonzo1)

I like many of the comments above. How about changing the requirements for the basic scoutcraft skills from Tenderfoot (for example) such as: 4a. Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope. 4b. Demonstrate you know how to tie the following knots and tell what their uses are: two half hitches and the taut-line hitch. To something that shows PROFICIENCY in the skill like: 4a. Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope 10 times on 10 different occassions. 4b. Demonstrate you know how to tie the following knots and tell what their uses are: two half hitches and the taut-line hitch 10 times on 10 different occasions. Then, add to Star and Life 4a. Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope. 4b. Demonstrate you know how to tie the following knots and tell what their uses are: two half hitches and the taut-line hitch. - - - - - Along with other scoutcraft skills like lashings, some first aid, fire building, etc. And by the way, add Backpacking to the Required List. Gonzo

Here's what happened: On Thursday, PL (my son) called the two of them and invited them over for a patrol campout in our back yard. Friday evening came, we went over some of Tenderfoot, set up tents in the back yard, and cooked breakfast on Saturday morning. We continued with the book work and the boys went home by noon. Aside from the time requirement for the physical fitness stuff, they pretty much have it. I was their WDL, so it was review mostly. Show scout spirit, SM conf and BOR remain. One lad called his mom at 11:45 p.m. Friday night, I asked why, but he couldnt say, so I got on the phone and said the Johnny was OK, don't worry and he'll be fine. When mom & dad came by today, I reminded them about the SM conference, BOR and she didn't quite get it. It's been several times I let her know about the process. I reminded them about Monday night meeting. I told her about the next two outings that happen within the next 3 weeks, plus summer camp. Then she moans, "we'll see" I made this available to the patrol, they gotta follow through. They seemed to enjoy it.

Beavah, go ahead, raise the temperature, I dare you! See, you can't do it. The eco-politics of the radical left in this country have been scaring people for decades. Americans as a rule have short memories. I do remember hearing some of the same hogwash 30 years ago. Mt. St. Helen's eruption did more damage than man can ever do. Like Brent, I heard on Atlanta radio earlier today, "scientists estimate that temperatures will be 10 deg higher by 2080", What? 2080?? scientists can't tell you what the temp will be in 7.3 days and they expect us to believe what the weather will be in 73 years? You know Beav, the temps COULD be 10 deg cooler too, (wink). Nutty environmentalsim, another way to scare people into thinking that higher taxes are good for us. Again, let's be good stewards, let's ot be nuts.

But what about the football and karate? I'd hardly say that they are "civilized"

You might see if there is a genuine flight simulator (not a disney type ride) nearby, a military base or aviation museum might have something.

FScouter, By man not ruining the earth, I mean that man can't destroy Earth. Sure, man can pollute, man can do many things, but not destroy the planet. I've said we should be good stewards, put trash in cans, then landfills, preferably lined landfills. Some trash should be recycled, etc. Don't use the street for a toilet, etc. In the first Gulf War, Saddam dumped a lot of oil into the Persian Gulf. but just a couple of years later, there was no evidence of any oil spill. One volcano eruption does more harm to the atmosphere than man could ever do. Let's become energy independent, go to ANWR and get the oik, let's drill off shore and let's also continue to improve fuel economy and get 18 wheelers to quit spewing all that black junk into the air. There are many things we can do, but man can't cause the temperature to go up.

Class of '80 Currently ASM

Merlyn, Trees and plants use the CO2 to make oxygen. Short of nuclear holocaust, man can not ruin the earth. It's hot here, cool there, kinda like high tide, high someplace, low someplace else. Merlyn, what major city do you live near?

Wow, so many good ones. Nanny is 75+ and can't go camping. The backyard idea may work. I'll be having lunch with the dad Thursday, but I don't want to guilt trip anyone either. Before the backpacking trip, I explained everything at her kitchen table with maps, the trail guide book (Bartram Trail in NE Georgia) and how the trip would go. She said then "I'll talk to Fred", Fred later told me he couldn't go and Johnny told Mason (my son) he "had to go to a party" There's a bit of this culture in the troop I've noticed. One of the First Class scouts doesn't have a pack, he camps with to rubber maid boxes. SM sent me an email saying tha parents had concerns about hiking to the campsite at night. It was about 1/2 mile. Big Deal! All camping until this last outing has been car camping and the SM likes going on Saturday morning to avoid setting up in the dark. I reminded him that scouts have flashlights, batteries too. I'm going to push for Friday night camping for each campout, and to carry packs in and out on most. I feel bad in so many ways. Fred is a general contractor and contributed $500 toward our new scout hut construction AND offered to provide the construction labor from his crews. I hope now that he doesn't feel like his $500 is wasted. I can maybe get it back. Worse, I feel bad for Johnny, someday, someone will ask him, were in in boy Scouts? He'll probably say, "yeah, for 3 months, but my mom wouldn't let me go camping, I really resent her for that" The program is the program and that's it, no dumbing down for anyone. The autistic boy went backpacking this pst weekend. OK, I admit, he struggled hard, scouts pitched in admirably and helped him, he didn't "quit" and wants to go again. Semper, I've done the "I'll look after him...." but to no avail. I know mom trusts me, her kid comes here for sleep overs (they're 11) Maybe do the sleep over here, out back, they can set up tents here, camp in our back yard, THAT might work. Bammo, knock out Tenderfoot stuff that remains. Thanks, Gonzo

Wow, Merlyn discussing something OTHER than atheism, welcome to the rest of the forum Merlyn! Alright, bazillion years on Earth, 150 + - years of climate records. The atmosphere is an elastic medium (air can be compressed and expanded). Man can cause pollution, man CAN NOT cause the Earth to heat up. Only the big fire ball in the sky can do that. Carbon dioxide is expressed into the atmosphere, plants and trees need carbon dioxide to grow. Trees and plants give off oxygen. It's part of the cycle. Be good stewards, give a hoot, don't pollute. Let's all take care of what we have here on Earth. Pack it in, pack it out. Don't get crazy about evironmentalism.

Ok, here are the events (in short) Cross over Feb 5, earned Scout Badge same night. Mar 2,3,4 Car camping at committee members "farm" 70 miles away, Johnny couldn't go because it was "too far", she said "that's south of Atlanta, he can't go that far" Apr 20,21, 22 Camp-o-ree, again, car camping, at nearby county fairgrounds, couldn't go,, dad couldn' go, therefore son couldn't go. May 4,5,6 backpacking, only 7 miles. Mom said "he would have to filter is water, oh no, he might get sick, what about snakes? he could get bit by a snake, then what? he can't go." I suggested that his dad do as described above. Johnny still can't go. I know both parents, Johnny and Mason have their sleep overs at each other's houses all the time. They're buddies. I just don't want to be pushy and have the reverse affect, I also don't want to seem like I don't care. Next outing is the next cross over where the pack will have B&G, Cross over, AOL and family camping all at one time. The troop is invited to camp, IT WILL BE IN THE BACKYARD OF A LOCAL CHURCH! I bet he still can't go. Edited part: Here's the odd thing, mom lets Johnny do Karate, he's almost a black belt and lets him play football! Football? He could get seriously hurt playing football, but he can't go camping. (This message has been edited by Gonzo1)

Umm, no. Mom is a princess, only "camps" at resorts. Has a nanny for the 7 month old, housekeeper, etc. Doesn't really cook, and ain't gonna camp. Dad however, came to Webelos Woods last fall, Johnny could go if dad could go, but dad's schedule hasn't allowed it. I'm friends with these folks and still, that isn't good enough. Dad couldn't go on the backpacking trip, he wieghs about 350 pounds, it would have killed him. but, I suggested he come along, stay Friday night, drive to the other campsite and wait, then camp with us there. Work schedule didn't allow it. The next one is at a church bckyard as more Webelos cross over and are caming at the church. I'm gonna try to get mom and dad there. 2 weeks laters is Concil owned property camping nearby. Gonzo

We had 3 boys cross over into the troop in Feb. One is now a Tenderfoot, the other two miss a few meetings and have not been on any of the three campouts since joining. This evening, while talking to one dad, he said is son Johnny is dropping out. He says it's because his son hasn't gotten anything. I reminded him that Johnny needs to go on the campouts in order to pitch a tent and sleep in it, etc. He kows the memorizations (oath, law, et al) and did the push ups, run etc, bt Johnny hasn't been camping because mom is too over-protective. Dad and nanny agree. Forum members, please help me retain this scout.

Packsaddle, A bad day camping is better than any day at work.

Packsaddle came on a backpacking trip with our trip this past weekend. Thanks, it was nice to meet you in person, you're taller than I imagined. Packsaddle was able to show the folks on a couple of occasions some interesting things about the forest. Too bad it was raining, he might have been able to show more, but the guys liked what you had to say. I know his profession, a biology professor at a major university. I've had many science classes in my profession, chiropractic. As I recall from undergraduate studies, one law is "Matter can neither be created nor destroyed, it is only transformed." Same goes for energey, "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but transformed." So in about 50 years when the Eastern Hemlock is gone from the eastern United States, it will be due to a bug, not temperature change. But, environmentalists will proclaim that the internal cumbustion engine is to blame. So we should have higher taxes now to offset any future damage, according to them (not Packsaddle), but them. Our lawn mowers do not cause higher temperatures, THE SUN DOES. It gets cold in winter, warm in summer. It rains more one year, not as much another. Look at the weather guessers about last year's hurricane predictions ----- They were all wrong. They can't tell you what the weather will be 5 days from now and you believe they can tell you what it will be in 20 years?????? BTW, Packsaddle, thanks again for coming along.