Gonzo1

DanKroh, When the criteria changes, of course there will be more diagnoses. Here's another example: 15 or 20 years ago, a person was over weight at 20 pound over "ideal" body weight and obese at 50 pounds over "ideal" body weight. Nowadays, a person is obese at 20 pounds over ideal weight. so, if criteria changes to diagnose ADD (etc), then there will be more people diagnosed with it. I also believe that some of the diagnoses are just plain wrong. It's my understanding that MD's get kick backs from pharmaceudical companies from prescribing certain drugs. I don't know, I don't get kick backs AND I'M NOT ACCUSING ANYONE HERE OF RECEIVING KICK BACKS. Let me state it again: Add is over diagnosed. Ritalin and Adderall are over prescribed. Some, but not all teachers don't want to manage kids who are ADD, some, but not all parents are bad parents and can't control these kids. Some kids need the medicine. Some kids are bored, they go outside and climb trees, they're kids, kids climb trees. If a child is truly, and I mean sincerely ADD, not the kid who doesn't pay attention in class or who gets bored with school work because he is actually a genius, but truly ADD, the kid NEEDS to take medication as prescribed. Anyone who has a prescription should follow it, otherwise don't waste your time and your doctor's time. I believe that if a parent gives the kid a holiday during a campout, the parent is risking the child's health, safety of others and puts undue (and unfair) stress on the adult and youth leadership during the campout. I will be the first to say that if a person's only tool is a hammer, the only solution they see are nails. I see chiropractic solutions to health problems. I'm a chiropractor, not a psychiatrist. I've had patients with ADD who get better with spinal adjustments I've had patients with ADHD who get better with spinal adjustments I've had patients with Asperger's who get better with spinal adjustments I've had lots of patients who get better with spinal adjustments. What people don't understand is that many health problems are actually caused by misalignments in the spinal column. Problem is, people take pills for health problems that MIGHT be helped with chiropractic care.

I wouldn't know who is moderator and who isn't. I guess it's the * by their name. So I don't know who does a good job and who doesn't. i guess the ones that let me get away with something are doing a great job. I gotta disagree with Ed on this about merlyn. I don't think merlyn wants to really destroy scouting, but rather doesn't like BSA stance on religion, God, I assume homosexuals in scouting, use of public taxpayer facilities (which we all pay taxes to use) for scouting, etc. I think merlyn would be OK with scouting if BSA included atheists. Maybe gays and girls too, I don't know. So, I gotta wonder, am I right merlyn?

gwd, They came to visit your campout For they joined not your troop don't pout Sorry, limericks are in another thread. Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery. If another troop visits and does something similar, that's OK. If webelos join another troop, that's OK too. There are probably other boys who could join. Get you selves noticed in other packs. A natural feed into a troop isn't the only feed to a troop, maybe somebody wants an option. Get to know the cubmasters, get den chiefs there and see who in your troop has a younger brother in a pack. The boys are out there, go get 'em! And, you other adults in your troop to help, senior boys too.

In the pack my son just moved up from, we had a webelos, let's call him timmy, who was (and is ) a handfull So bad was Timmy, that mom, dad, gramps and teenage sister all came along. Well, teen sister couldn't come along without a girl friend, it was quite something. They paid for some people toward the food, but brought their own coolers, pre-made store bought PB&J with the crust cut off sandwiches, sodas, crackers, candy, cookies, etc. And then, when it came time for chores, this kids adult family members just shrugged, then said silly stuff like "watch that smoke Gonzo, it gets in your eyes" while eating Slim Jim and never lifting a finger to help, but then they sure packed it away when it came time to eat. The point is that it took 3 adults and an older sister to keep an eye on this kid, Timmy got yelled by his family at for everything. Sometimes I think parents are worse than some kids.

I think it also means we can't edit a message, I'm having trouble with editing. Brent, I'll see you soon.

local, I prefer the colored patches too. I wear ASM with the green background. My son's patrols is the Screaming Squirrels. Only trouble is, I can't find any squirrel patches, except very vintage ones on ebay. Kudu, I thought I had lengthy posts. This is not personal, just my thoughts, BSA is what is is today and no matter how much either of us would like to change it to something it was, it won't happen. I entered Boy Scouts in '72 or 73. We were outdoors all the time. I've never really heard of what you refer to as indoor scouting, or indoor scoutmaster conferences, or some of the other things you refer to. Sure, it would be nice if we could send our kids on a 15 mile hike, overnight without any adult supervision, but that won't happen today. Whe I was 7 or 8 years old, I would be on my bike a mile or so from home, at 7 years old. Not gonna happen today. Too many creeps out there. My old troop from my youth was outdoors, did tons of first aid, map and compass, pioneering, cooking over wood, flint and steel, the whole 9 yards. I suppose there is that First Tarrant thing in Texas for you, I don't know. Again, I'm not trying to be personal, we all try to deliver a program to kids. I wish it was as least as tough and thorough as when I was a scout. I wish we had a more vogorous program, more hikes, etc. Accept my apology in advance, not trying to offend.

Joe, Like Dug, our troop takes way too much stuff, stuff the boys don't know how to use or care for. Dug, I wanna join your troop. In my youth, we carried everything by hand, not foot, sorry, couldn't resist. Back in the day, we earned skill awards, so, if one scout needed to hike, we all did. Invariably, someone needed to hike, we hiked alot. I'm working with the PLC to plan better, so hopefully, we'll do more backpacking.

We all wear a cap, hat or bonnet With an emblem or bill upon it Whether Shakespeare was best We scouters shall test That a limerick is mo' betta than sonnet

We come here to read and to post On the net, where Terry's the host On this we agree Virtual friends we shall be And to Terry we offer a toast!

2CubDad OGE is right on with his usually sound advise and comments. (and the others too) I think it's probably best to let parent sknow that on outings, at meetings, during scouting events of any kind, parents don't recognize their own children. for example, my son is setting up his tent, then, asks me for help, I re-direct him back to his patrol or another scout. I DO NOT DO THE WORK FOR THE SCOUTS, I DO NOT COOK FOR THE SCOUTS, ETC. By having the one dad pay so much attention to his son undermines the program. How can the SPL or PL get anything done if daddy is there over sonny's shoulder?

Thanks for the information, ya'll. And happy St. Patrick's Day to Eamonn. BTW Ea, my mom's family came from County Cork, surnames are Redington's and Cronin's.

I'm fairly confident that by the time any flushed meds make it to our tap, they are pretty much diluted, just like the pesticides and old paint I flush , wait a minute, did I just type that? er, I mean throwing them down a latrine is best, no one is going after them once the old meds get there.

I love this website, the forums, the information, all great stuff. Lately, when I reply to a forum post and click "Do you wish to be notified via email when there is a reply to this thread?" I dont receive an email notification, what's going on? Am I the only guy (scouter) this is happening to? Sorry ladies, I'm originally from Chicago, "guys" is interchangable as in "all uh yooz guys" which means "all of you." Please advise. Gonzo

ASM915, email received, reply sent.

I agree that the program has been watered down. It seems though that Tenderfoot has been made a little tougher lately, but in all, it's an easier program now than in the 70's. I still have my old skill awards too. I wish they would be brought back. Rank requirements are just the basics, not proficiency by any means. Mollie had it right, the whole public school education system is easier too. I wish I could remember where I read it, somewhere was a sample 6th grade exam from Washington's era, not many people could pass it today.

I'm with twocubdad on this one. While recycling th material is thrifty, it seems as though the leadership component comes up short.

I disagree with LisaBob and others on this one. If council said NO, then No means NO. When the DE or other district or council staff show up, offer to buy them a cup of coffee, but then remind them that you can't sell coffee. On the other hand, have some Girl Scouts selling cookies, it's not their event, council can't say no to them. This is a good time to remind the newbie about NOT volunteering the unit for anything. Short notice, no $$ and frustrated adults. 100 lashings with a wet noodle!! At the next roundtable, have lots of unit leadership present and voice their concern over this situation. In our area, nits that run district/council event do so in order to earn money and run the event.

Yeah, risking your kids health AND SAFETY to save a few bucks, that's nice. ASM915, I did not receive email.

C-Bolt There can be too strict and there can also be too laid back, maybe lazy is a better word. In our troop, boys seem to get away with called adults by their first name. That's right, the SM is Bill and the boys call him Bill, ASM is Phil and that's what they call him. I refer to other adults as Mr. Jones or Mr. Smith. In my youth, I would never have called my SM just Russell.

let's bring it back to the original point. Parent of ADD scouts (IMO) MUST notify the unit leaders of the health probems of the child. If a child were insulin dependent diabetic and injecting insulin, I would want to know it in advance. If a medication were important enough to be taken Monday through Friday, it should also be important enough on Saturday and Sunday. Lots of problems (not just ADD) are "over-diagnosed". A person can't have "borderline high blood pressure", it's like being "borderline pregnant" ASM915, I agree, a bunch of diagnoses are missed. Thankfully, more are correct than not correct. I find it hard to believe that many kids are bi-polar. I am a doctor, I'm not claiming to explain everything in this forum (venue) or to treat or diagnose anyone here either, I'm not Dr Dean Edell. MollieDuke, I don't believe HIPAA has any place in this discussion. The HIPAA rules don't apply, the scout unit isn't a HIPAA compliant entity. I agree, if the parents don't disclose the medical problem, then the parent should not EVER send the kid on an outing with the troop, EVER. IMO, in most cases, ritalin is prescribed to treat the parents and or teachers, not the kid. While this may upset some here, most of the ADD kids are really smart, bright kids who are probably bored. True enough, some of thm can be a real handful. Some are true behavior issues and need to be dealt with accordingly. It is not my intent to ruffle your feathers, but rather to inform you that there is a different way to treat these kids. Parents of the youngsters NEED TO BE ON THE OUTINGS AND AT MEETINGS. Let the parent help control the kids in question. Almost guaranteed, if the NC boys parent had been there, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. Everyone, I'm not a specialist in treating ADD or Asberger's cases, I do treat them however. I mainly treat neuromusculoskeletal disorders. If medication is prescribed, take it. If you or someone you know would like more information on chiropractic and how a chiropractor can help, PM or email me. Gonzo

A couple of comments: Lisa said: "Wow, those must be some pretty horrible meds if a kid needs a break from them on a weekly basis!" This assumes that the kids were correctly diagnosed to start with... That's part of the overall problem, ADD/ADHD is over-diagnosed. Asperger's Syndrome is the "new" ADD by the way. So,don't be fooled if some parent says that their kid has Asperger's. It's basically the same thing with a different name. Antelopedud, I agree and disagree with some things. If the medication were correct, it should be taken all the time, not just during school days. While the 12-13 year old may be old enough to self medicate, the adults need to know who is taking prescription or over-the-counter meds for obvious reasons. Anyone with a child on Ritalin needs to be aware of all of the fine print on the prescription. Some of the known or suspected side effects of Ritalin include withdrawal, depression, mood swings and SUICIDE. Be Careful and become informed. Talk with your child's pediatrician, Ritalin is dangerous, (chiropractic is safe). Basically, try to require parents of these kids to attend EVERYTHING! Treat the lad the same, just have their parent present. Before someone suggests it here, I don't claim that chiropractic can not 'cure' everything. But, chiropractors help many people with many conditions other than back pain and headaches. Gonzo

I'll come at this from two angles: First: A. If a doctor prescribes a medication, it is supposed to be taken as prescribed. Let's say someone has insulin dependent diabetes (Type 1). This person should check blood glucose and take required amount of insulin as prescribed. B. A parent is chronically depressed and is prescribed medication, the parent takes the required medication. There should be no "holiday" because becasue the individual is camping. Second: A. I'm a chiropractor when not scouting. I can tell you all with certainty that ADD/ADHD are OVER DIAGNOSED AND OVER PRESCRIBED. B. If a child is truly, and I mean sincerely ADD, not the kid who doesn't pay attention in class or who gets bored with school work because he is actually a genius, but truly ADD, the kid NEEDS to take medication as prescribed. Anyone who has a prescription should follow it, otherwise don't waste your time and your doctor's time. C. Research shows that kids with ADD/ADHD and who receive regular chiropractic care get better. Just so everyone is clear, I don't push chiropractic to anybody (at socuting events), I don't adjust kids on campouts, etc. I never adjust children without parental consent. It's not the time or place. D. For more info, PM or email me at jgonzalezdc@doctor.com and put scouter in the subject line. I get too much spam.

Glad the scouts made a good decision. SR540, Northeast Georgia Council had Fall, Winter and Spring camp-o-rees, runs 2 summer camps, lots of cub and webelos activities too.

I think sometimes we have too much technology. Why not use the Advacement Chart that you can tape to the wall. Get fancy and put it in a frame. It's easy to use, cheap (thrifty) and can be used by everyone.

I'd say go spelunking, but you could do both, if and only if adults can do both. If they events are 2 or more weeks apart, you could do both fairly easily and maybe drop another outing the month after that isn't as exciting as spelunking.