Gonzo1

Merlyn, You said: "I also don't see what "bending over backwards" is being done of behalf of atheists -- do you have any actual examples?" How about all of the schools that can't charter BSA units. That's about 9,000 examples. I'm sure if you had a groupd of atheists who want to use a school gym or meeting room, you could probably get it. How about towns and cities being sued over Christmas trees, the media calling them Holiday Trees so atheists (and other religious minorities) don't get upset. Do you if all of us on this forum lived in Tehran, we would be allowed to ha

It's not the public school that discriinates against atheists. Could atheists have a group meeting in a school, probably so, maybe now, more than ever. You're civils rights are there for you. But, why is it that the majority must bend over backward for 3% or the populations so you won't be offended? I'm OK with a city spending a few buck for a cross, menora, star of David, etc. Remember, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the peopl

berets? How do you find them?

Merlyn, You said: ... removing public school charters wasn't an attempt to "force" the BSA to do anything; it was to force public schools to disassociate themselves from a program that required those schools to practice religious discrimination. Well, here's the First Ammendment: Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. All of the sep

Many of you are older than I, some are not. some of you study history, I study the human body and radiology. If General Westmoreland were still alive, he would tell you we won, He was the on the ground commander for much of the Viet Nam War. OK, so people get plucked off roof tops, it doesn't look pretty. The media can paint any picture it wants, the media can be wrong adn the American public will see wahat the media want you to know. Here's another of example of the media "tinkring" with fact. Recent polling data show Mitt Romney low in the polls, BUT, he has raised more m

SSScout, #2 made me laugh. Regarding guarding places of interest. Many places were guarded, but not all. Oil fields were guarded so terrorists (or Saddam) wouldn't blow them up like Saddam did in 1991. In some cases, Saddam deliberately poured oil into the Persian Gulf from off shore wells. Actually, WMD have been found, got about 2 days newsplay and then it was dropped. (Mustard gas cannisters and mass graves of people executed) The war isn't about WMD, that's only part of it. Pack, I can't wait to go camping with you. Afterward, I'd like to organize a scoute

Kilo Charlie, Wow, You said: "Seems like a false dichotomy. I think there's a couple more possibilities: (assuming that, in using the word "with", you actually meant "support") 1. You don't support "us", i.e., Bush and his military strategies and priorities, and you do support the terrorists (the terrorists themselves, and those who aid them) 2. You do support "us", and you do not support the terrorists (a good chunk of the American people, probably including yourself) 3. You do support "us", and you do support the terrorists (probably not possible, save for a few wacky consp

These three related: Let's look at philosophy Some say drop DRP Others say no Without Him can't grow 'Cause with Him, the best scouts we'll be With Merlyn or LisaBobbie We'll discuss merits of DRP 'Round campfire we'll chat 'Bout this thing or that Hopefully, friends we can still be I look up to my friend Packsaddle A teacher, not herder of cattle We usually agree But not always you see Down a river we someday can paddle

Professor Packsaddle, Assignment received, but will take some time. I'm going to guess you're a few years older than I, so my research would be like you doing a similar report on WWII, no real first recollection, just reaserch. BTW, I'm 45. I usually see the glass half full as I'm usually optomistic. And while I agree we don't always agree, I enjoy these chats and others and look forward to a visit 'round a campfire, dinner, maybe a canoe trip, etc. I agree that the people in her district elected her. My question is what in the world is the House Speaker doing over there in the fir

OGE, I grew up about 3 miles from National College, but I attended Logan College of Chiropractic in St. Louis. I earned a BS degree from the University of the State of New York. It's ironic that Logan College comes up in this thread. Logan was built from a former monastery (sp) and the library was located in what used to be the chapel. Hmm, monks praying for whatever they pray about and chiropractic students praying for a C or better. OGE, send me a PM, I'll explain more. G

You earn them, wear them. Personal taste will dictate how many rows to wear. I've seen some guys with 7 or 8 rows, IMO, it looks little silly, legal, but silly.

Packsaddle, Ah, fundamentalist. That's accurate. I also know that BSA DRP is stricly flexible and ambiguous. I'm aware and OK with people of others religions come to BSA. Also, if someone's God is a rock, I guess that's OK too, odd, but OK. If you need a guest speaker or sub for your class, please let me know, I'm free Tuesday afternoons. I can put a world real (non-classroom) spin on things with a chiropractic angle.

As he was tired and spent

LongHaul, It seem to me that democrats are makingpolitical hay out of the war and THEIR anti-war stance. When I was a general's aide, the insde scoop was that this war on terror would last 7-15 years at the least. It would take place in many countries and allies may change along the way. I thik the media was with "us" (America) until we captured Saddam and Bush declared "mission accomplished" on the carrier. Not the best move in my opinion. It seems that the "mainstream media" turned on us at that moment. I agree that safety is paramount for the troop. I abhor your use of

We still disagree. It's sunny and 75 in Georgia, enjoy the snow. Packsaddle (and Merlyn and Lisa), as long as teachers administer tests, there will be prayer in schools. (wink)

KC9DD1, Now it seems you want to bring "tolerance" into play. Wel,, tolerance is a virtue, not a point in the Scout Law. I encourage being nice to all. About judges, I don't agree that all judges are correct and right. I don't believe that rapists, murderers, drug dealers, child molesters etc should be allowed to walk free. I don't agree that Roe vs Wade should be the law of the land. I think the Supreme Court erred in its ruling. The court should have considered ah, never mind. Those rules and requirements are a good thing BECAUSE they are the rules and requirements. BS

Well now, I think the rules have been in place since 1910? Give or take. BSA is strictly non-sectarian. If someone doesn't want to recite the oath, that's there business. But the person must agree to live by the Oath (promise) and law. I don't know what religious minorities think about the DRP, the USA is about 95% Christian, 4% Jewish and about 1% the rest - give or take. Now, I'm sure one of our colleagues will find actual census data, but that's pretty clos. Lisa, again, I disagree. If a person can't do duty to God, it would be watering down the BSA. At a commissione

I've heard it said that a priest could REFUSE to give comunin just because someone believes in this or that, like say, abortion. I doubt seriously a priest would marry a Jew and Catholic, but I could be wrong. I agree that comparing the two is not quite apples and apples. My point is that both have rules. I think the DRP rule is OK. There are other rules BSA has that I don't agree with, but I'll support them. In your example, you don't believe its' an issue. Well, we're sitting around a campfire and i ask, "so, where do you go to church?" or "hey, what's the matter with you?

LongHaul, I guess we have something in common. I didn't care for the President either. Don't agree with his politics, his leadership of the military or management. I think he should be in jail too. Oh, wait a minute, I'm talking about Clinton, I think Clinton should have been convicted by the Senate and imprisoned. Now, remember, every military today is a volunteer. NONE OF US KNOW ALL OF THE DETAILS. WE ARE NOT THERE. I retired from the Army Reserve in June, 2006. From 2001 to 2004 I served as an aide to a brigadier general, I guarantee you, the general public h

KC9DD1, Welcome. Rules are rules. OK, you declare yourself here to be Catholic. If I'm a Methodist can I just go to church one Sunday and take communion? If not, why not? Can a muslim enter your church? If not, why not? Can a Jewish person marry one of your members in your church?, that is, the actual building? See where this is going? Your church has rules, BSA has rules. The harm is that they don't qualify for membership. Can an atheist truly be trustworthy, loyal, ....... AND REVERENT? Can he do Duty to God? Uh, I don't think so. The adult

evmori, That's my point, he can't. He won't say the Pledge of Allegiance, Scout Oath or Law. He certainly won't say grace. Maybe Spiral Scouts may be in order, check spiralscouts.org

Kudu, I just checked the Camping MB requirements. I didn't know heretofore that rapelling and a foat trip could count toward Camping MB, see requirement 9b. It would be nice if things were a bit tougher.

Merlyn, I Wasn't aware of it, can't comment on it either. But, a brief bit of research thanks to google revealed: In August of 1998, it all came to an end. At that point, National split Exploring in two. The various career oriented Exploring Posts, as well as the Career Awareness Exploring, would be moved over to the BSA's Learning for Life subsidiary, after which they would be refereed to as the Learning for Life/Explorers. By doing so, Explorers would no longer be members of the BSA, no longer needing to adhere to BSA membership standards. The rest of Exploring: the arts/hobbies

AHHHHhhhh, Thanks OGE, I forgot to mention THAT point. Citizenship is encouraged, but no credit for service hours.

It may be a minefield, but I don't see any loophole either. The application, (a useful tool) says "Citizen activities are encouraged, but partisan political activities are prohibited". It may be wise to steer clear, but if some scouts wanted to put up signs, pass out flyers etc, as long there is no reprisal for not doing so, I don't see a problem. I have considered running for office in the past (considered, but never did) and would never think of asking scouts for their time.