Fuzzy Bear

Adding the Devil's Advocate to this forum is like asking for a fifth wheel for a car.

Two guys returned from duck hunting. The wife said, "You have been gone for three days and you have nothing to show for it? The husband, "There wasn't much to shoot at." There isn't too much more here either. FB

Having heroes didn't fit the role of need as much as it was a matter of fact. Baden-Powell, Uncle Dan, James West were founders and they had great personal attributes and characteristics that people loved and respected. I suppose they were even taken for granted while alive. The program grows other heroes that are not as well known but they possess qualities that give the program depth when we are around them or even at a distance. You will recognize them quite easily. They are the ones that take things to a new height and make Scouts believe in themselves. I can recount several of those heroes from my youth up until this very day. These people have made Scouting come alive for me and have allowed me to do some things I did not believe that I would ever be able to do. I try hard to not take them for granted because I know they are not forever. If Scouting is in the doldrums where you are, focus on your own walk because you might be that very person that embodies the qualities that others really need at this time. In Scouting, FB

Since I have read this thread or small booklet, I feel like I deserve the right to comment from my own non-expert viewpoint like so many others. Yes, I agree that thousands have benefited from the BSA program for almost 100 years. The BSA management has continually "tweaked" and changed the program by so many professionals, teachers, lawyers, administrators, child specialists, etc. over all of those years that we must take note. It has been updated, changed, improved, made better over and over again. Many of the basics are there and have shown to be good standards to use but most all of them have been subject to some kind of change since inception. I propose that 100 years from now there will be more changes, additions and subtractions. Tweaking the program has been necessary to continue to make it relevant and safe and so, on it goes. Now, in light of all of the BSA tweaking, should the volunteers that manage a unit tweak the program to make it better and/or make it work for them? Let's take the example of Uniforming. Should a unit be expected to use all of the uniform all of the time according to the Uniforming regulations? The answer of course is yes. To follow the standard is to abide by the yearly Recharter mandate which is to follow the BSA program. But you say most of the boys in my unit are poor and can only purchase the shirt, so why not tweak this one method? Check a couple of things first. Do you know what is expected by the BSA for proper Uniforming? Sometimes people never know what is expected of them, so they use ignorance as a reason to not abide by the Uniforming standard. Next, find out what would make it possible to reach the Uniforming standard. Is there a Unit and individual Budget plan in place to earn their own way to this standard? If you know what you are supposed to do and there is a plan in place to deliver it, isn't the unit accomplishing the goal? I would have to say yes it is and would not count it against the unit because their motivation and actions speak for the standard itself. Does this action make it better instead of simply being a practical fix? Well, it fixes a problem and it stays within the ideal of paying one's own way. This could be thought of as being better because when compared to a unit that is in full uniform but all of the uniforms were purchased by well meaning parents, then it has something more of the BSA program ideal than the all uniformed unit. So, it could be considered better as well as a fix. I have observed many units from being part of the Commissioner's Service. I make program quality the number one issue in what I do. I also try to put friendship and understanding as a priority. This allows me to know and understand the program and also to know and understand what is happening in the unit. A surface inspection is not always the best. I try to go a step further to find out the reason, sometimes what a unit is doing doesn't follow the standard but really has great merit. Those actions need to be recognized. Thank you for your time and patience in reading this. FB

The BOR question is fairly straightforward and already addressed. The choice of Summer Camps and Summer Camp spots may be a tradition that the SM would like to establish for himself. It may also make him feel secure and give him a sense of continuity that he needs at his stage in life. The real fun for everyone is when parents get involved on the committee, committee functions, such as advancement and in support of a program that the Scouts have real choices in making. There are plenty of other decisions that need the SM's input. I can promise him, he won't be left out.

Ok, I have now read this complete argument, 8 pages along with the name calling. 1. Merlyn comes forth with what sounds to be a large explosion, 'So, no more BSA units charted by military bases anymore', hurrah for somebody! 2. Homeland Security rushes in to to recover the survivors and find the culprits, 'But, all units can still use the same facilities as before.' !! 3. Several by-standers note that things will change but not really, 'Because all units will get other sponsors on all of the same bases.', huh? 4. The populace gives it their own twist, 'It may have to do with discrimination but it really should be about homosexuality.', huh what? 5. The court gives it one more turn, 'Now, the seats on the ship will be moved about to make it look different because everyone agreed to fight no more.' What? 6. The ACLU gets it usual kick in the pants for its' involvement into matters that should never concern them or anyone else ever! 7. The whole thing turns into another Seinfeld episode, much to do about nuthing. or is it? What about the 2 to 5 million lost for the Jamboree? Is the BSA now going to change locations to private land in various parts of the country like it did years ago and somebody else pays? Or will the money come out of a different pocket but the same pair of pants? This has got to be what progress looks like. FB

Carol, Email communication is generally written as if it is coming from an unknown corner of the world. People tend to write things they would not usually say to a person's face or even on the telephone. This makes for unique conversations that would never happen around a friendly campfire. Writing about politics is a good example. Most people won't publicly discuss it because of its volatile nature. Here it is done without a thought. Correcting another person is hardly done in public but here it becomes a personal mission for some to openly reject and contradict even the slightest miscue and then act as if it is not bad manners. My opinion is that we should agree to write like we talk to each other, especially when we disagree. FB

My father was the SM and my older brother was in his Troop. They openly discussed Troop problems and the problem Scouts either at home or at dinner. I overheard some of those conversations and figured that such discussions lead to change. Since I was not yet of Scout age, it lead me to think of how I could be a good Scout not like old so and so. Later, I became a Scout and I held my own discussions on various problem Scouts and Troop problems. What I found was that things could get better by talking about them because action plans could be made on objects. People didn't change so easily because there was no action intended, just frustration relief. So the problem Scouts always remained the same. I had learned to judge people instead of being helpful, friendly, and kind. I hope that if you decide to hold discussions that it is done in the Spirit of Scouting and that "listening ears" are given the opportunity of the right kind of training toward positive change. People follow our examples. Judgment teaches us to rush in with insufficient information and blocks us from effective involvement with others. FB

I visited a new Troop as a UC on their first campout. (Note: Some believe the UC is not really a position of responsibility either.) I offered to take pictures of some of the events during the day while I was there. By the way, I had initially not been invited. I just happened to find out that the SM did not have two-deep leadership during the day, so I offered to come out and visit. I didn't mention anything to the SM about the 2DL issue because he hadn't thought about it and he appeared to have his hands full for the time being. The Scouts began the day by goofing around, so I mentioned to the SM that we could offer some competitions. The boys were interested so we began by having a flag pole set-up competition. Each patrol had to lash two poles together, tie clove hitches to the top of the pole, drive stakes into the ground and tie off each of the three lead ropes to the stakes. They had to learn to tie the knots properly so there was a competition about that also. Then they had to raise their Patrol flags, which had to made and then end it with a Patrol yell that had to be thought up. After this they had to learn how to cook their first meal as a patrol and then clean-up. More instruction was forthcoming. After a prayer and lunch we gathered firewood for the evening campfire and so on for the rest of the afternoon. Each event was photographed and the Scouts had a good time. The ASM came out late that afternoon and I left. Later that week, I sent them photographs of their first campout. This experience should be put into perspective with a campout several years before. I personally knew a green SM out with a new group of Scouts with nobody to take pictures or offer advice or to help with a few ideas. It was pretty ragged and it should have documented for the guys to look at later and laugh at or to take note on how far they had all come together in just a few short years. Some of those Scouts had been with that particular leader since Cub Scouts. That SM needed to have a few pictures of that first event to remember names and faces and deeds. Later some of those same Scouts had become accomplished leaders and had stepped up to take over the reins of the Troop when that SM left. They needed to have their memory of their history to help them teach a new group by remembering how far they had come themselves. So, I would like to offer the suggestion that some positions could be of little use if the person did not apply action to the assigned duties and some imagination. Some positions are like growing trees that must be thought of as future investments. Some positions should be thought of as plants that bloom and then fade with the morning light. It really is a group of people with varying duties for fairly short amounts of time with adult support that helps to raise young men into leaders. May we not underestimate the value of each position. I know I don't. FB

We had a great high school football team the year I graduated. It was made up of some very good athletes that received scholarships to several universities. Anybody could see it from a distance even when we were in the seventh grade. We later combined with another Junior High school team in the tenth grade and we knew then that we were to be something very special. By the end of our Senior year, we had several standout players and some that were All-District. We won only 6 of our 10 games that year and we didn't go on to a play-off game. We graduated and went our different ways but to this day I often wonder what happened. To this day my heart is burdened with the loss of the hope of that day. I attribute our failure to materialize on our lack of unity as a team. We were not the victims of hazing, nor the recipients of ugly words for failing. We lost because we failed to learn that a team is of one mind. We had somehow decided to be a group of individuals playing a game together for fun. We received our reward for our goal and a greater lesson of knowledge about ourselves. I will always be disappointed about what I believed should have been because I knew what we really were or hoped we were. That failure has been a hallmark or an incentive for me to go on to do many things as an individual. When I have failed, I understood what it takes to succeed. I understand about persistence and a good work ethic and having focus. I also know that my abilities and my interest must coincide to maintain the daily regimen to complete the total task that I have set before me. Failure and hazing could happen at the same time but they are two different behaviors and should not be confused with each other. Both affect our emotions but in two separate ways. One demeans our efforts and the other means for us to learn what efforts are necessary to go forward to reach a goal. Scouting is an excellent program for a person to learn by failure and success. Some things will be easy and others difficult. The overall goals of character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness are worthy aims for each of us but can only be obtained by sustaining a lengthy learning experience which is rarely accomplished without the benefit of personal hardship. FB

Work with others in your Pack to select another Leader. Don't do this task alone. Here is a list to work from: 1. List the Scouts and the parents of the Den. These parents have a direct interest and are most likely to take over the Den. 2. Work with the Committee Chairman of your Pack to lengthen the list to other parents in the Pack that may be interested in leading the Den. 3. Add to the list any relatives, aunts, uncles, Grandparents that might be possible candidates. 4. Your Pack Commissioner and your Charted Organization Representative may know of others that are in the Chartered Organization that may be candidates. Take care to select a leader that you can trust to do a good job. Make sure that a personal visit is taken to the home of the person being considered. Don't pressure the person. Tell them the truth about the time commitment and let them know of the support they will have. Prior to the visit(s) meet with the other parents of the Den and agree to offer support to the program throughout the year as an added incentive to the person considering the job. This support can be in areas of gathering supplies, transportation, setting up and cleaning up before and after the meetings. Have all parents agree to bring refreshments and to make sure that all Scouts are brought on time and picked up on time. This type of support makes the job enjoyable and the person doing the job a success. The boys will enjoy the program more and should benefit from your efforts. Good Luck in the hard work ahead of you, FB

I would like to pose another consideration. Include the Meeting Place Inspection Checklist as part of your Annual Report to your Chartered Organization. Make sure that they see that your numbers are far beyond the capacity of the small room you are now using. Let them also know about your advancement, training, and outdoors program, as well as the Good Turn Projects that your unit has been doing for the church this year and for the next year, since you can also include your new Annual Plan in the report. Get your Unit Commissioner to be part of the group that attends the meeting to present your Annual Report to the Chartered Organization. Go over the Report with all of the key leaders with your unit and the CO. Discuss with them the findings of the Meeting Place Inspection. The major element of this checklist is that the Charted Organization's agreement is to "provide adequate meeting facilities". This request is one thing the CO can do for a very good unit and will help increase numbers. Let them know that the entire unit will be attending Scout Sunday for the formal presentation of the Charter and would like to be part of the service. (I would like to give you some more pointers but this should get you started.) One note of caution: this is to be used as a way to find a solution together not as a way to discredit the CO. If done rightly, the CO will become aware of the problem and will abide by their agreement. Your unit will be able to commend the CO on how much they have assisted your unit in having an excellent program. Your presence at the presentation of the Charter will hopefully begin a closer relationship with them. In Scouting, FB

You are correct. Nobody needs to insult another person's beliefs. If people believe something and they are in a majority, 51% to 48%, then they are in charge. The winner's agenda is then the agenda of the country. People can still disagree with that agenda but remain loyal Americans. Insulting George Bush's or John Kerry's intelligence based on an aptitude test is missing an important point. Aptitude is indirectly related to intelligence and says more about achievemnet and specific abilities. This type of test is used to place people in vocational tracks. The overall profile is more imortant than the number of points scored in any one domain area. These tests can be used to screen people "out" of a vocation but both person's scored high enough to enter the service. Both went to college. Both served their country. Both are serving their country now. FB

Bob White, I ask your forgiveness for the words that poured through my keyboard tonight. I have disliked your attitude for a long time and I apologize for not being more patient/friendly. I have been unkind towards you with my own attitude. You are able to reach beyond my limits. You have made it difficult for me to maintain the standards that should be easy for me to keep by the time I have reached my age in Scouting. I have failed to keep the Scout Law. I will start again. FB

I am back from New Mexico with my one stick of wood for a fire that appears to be growing cold. One of the Skills of leadership is to evaluate your progress on a specific goal. If the goal is to be "Friendly" and you feel that you are angry at an individual; you have not failed the goal of Friendliness, instead you have encountered your next goal. Any individual in the Scouting program that is attempting to reach the goals (Aims) of Scouting, as agreed on in their entrance into the program, is not considered a failure until they decide the Scouting program is not for them. So, the initial question cannot be answered and is considered a hypothetical case for doubtful discussion with a low probability of resolution because of the circular reasoning involved. FB

Please review these points from two official guidebooks: Troop Committee Guidebook for Successful Troop Operation, 2003, Page 18, last paragraph. "Tenure Like all jobs in Scouting, troop committee members serve for a year at a time. At charter renewal time, a manpower inventory should be conducted to identify leadership needs. The troop committee chair should fill each committee position. Every committee member should be asked to serve in a specific capacity. No one, including the troop committee chair, automatically retains the same position beyond the one-year life of the charter." A further point of clarification and insight but from the Cub Scout Leader Book, 2003 printing, Recruiting Leaders, Page 10-4, paragraph 3. "3. Recruit for one year at a time. Let the prospect know that you are asking him or her for a specific time commitment. This knowledge gives the person a chance to move on gracefully when the year is completed; it also gives the Cubmaster and pack committee a chance to tactfully release leaders who are not adequately fulfilling their responsibilities. You will want to enlist many leaders for another year, but do so one year at a time." Several things (should) happen at charter renewal, according to the official printings by B.S.A. If you wish further information please consult these publications. FB

If the person in question is not a safety threat, then the best way to rearrange the chairs on the deck is at Recharter. People are only appointed for one year. FB

"Now is the time for our esteemed Mr. Baggins, who has proved himself a good companion on our long road, and a hobbitt full of courage and resource far exceeding his size, and if I may say so possessed of good luck far exceeding the usual allowance, now is the time for him to perform the service for which he was included in our Company: now is the time for him to earn his Reward." Although, it appears that one is sneaking into the cave to see about the dragon, it is really only an argument properlly known as a boondoggle. FB

Many of the details are to be filled in by you and the Pack Committee, a minimum of three in number. A strong PC will have the following positions covered: record keeping, finances, advancement, training, membership, public relations and re-registration. The PCC leads the PC and makes assignments as needed. The larger the PC, the better the access to completing and filling in the details that you request. As a group, you can continue to make recommendations for Pack leadership to the CO, such as, more ASCMs. You and the PC will need to ensure the meeting place is safe. Next coordinate your program with the CO through the COR. Proper programming issues from this committee which in turn helps to stimulate interest of the adult family members. The PC supervises finances and equipment and works closely with the CM. The PC makes sure that each of the levels of the CS group receives a quality year-round program. The PC needs to complete the Fast Start Training and the Basic Leader Training for their position. With the help of the CM, conduct periodic training for parents and guardians. Lastly, cooperate with other units that can assist with quality program and give you some of the necessary support and information you seek. Acronyms: PC-Pack Committee (Members), PCC- Pack Committee Chairman, CO-Charted Organization, ASCM- Assistant Cubmaster, COR- Chartered Organizations Representative, CS- Cub Scout See Pack Organization in the Cub Scout Leader Book for more details.

Scouting changes, as all things change around us and as we change. We should be ever mindful of those changes and return for training on a periodic basis to relearn and to learn, especially, learning one from the other. Quality leadership is developed first from training and then from experience and then from teaching others and then relearning it all over again. Quality units and quality programs generally will have quality leadership but usually none of it all at once. It is possible to provide the support to a program and make it good quality continuously but the leaders must remain in touch with the changes in the Scouting program and be aware of their own tendencies to stray from that program. I want to review the eight Methods of Scouting, they are: Ideals, Patrols, Outdoors, Advancement, Personal Growth, Adult Association, Leadership Development, and the Uniform. Review these because these are considered the only Methods recognized by the BSA and these are considered as being the only practical ways of achieving the Aims of Scouting (i.e., Building Character, Citizenship, and Developing Fitness, all also known as long-term goals). I want to also note that the eight Methods are difficult to pull apart when discussing them and when used on a regular basis because they become more of a tapestry than individual threads. Now, can a unit complete all of the ideals to the maximum amount all of the time, instantly and is that unit known as a Quality Unit? The answer is no. The way to understand my answer is from the main characteristic of the Methods themselves. The Methods are known as intermediate goals. The Methods are built upon many short term goals. Lets take Uniforming as an example of an intermediate goal. Scout A can only purchase part of the uniform so Scout A is encouraged to purchase the full uniform over a period of time. What might happen for this to occur? The young man may get a job and learn financial responsibility while purchasing the other part of the uniform. When he purchases it, is he through with Uniforming? No. He is also advancing and his patches must be sewn on correctly. He learns another skill, sewing. He must be involved in Uniform inspections so he learns to wash and iron his uniform. He will become a leader for other Scouts and will show others the way(s) and the reasons for correct Uniforming. (Note: Since Leadership is a learned skill, it also takes time to achieve, just like Uniforming). As a uniformed leader, he will belong to a Patrol and will help impart and be part of the spirit of a group of individuals that dress the same and have common goals. He will become an advertisement for adventure and for the outdoors program. He will become an example of what a Scout is and will be expected to show others what good things can happen when a person identifies with the Scouting movement. This one Method is not expected to happen all at once but slowly over a period of time. The question may be asked about Scout B who has the full uniform because his parents bought it for him when he decided to join. Is he through with Uniforming? The answer is no. Scout B must still advance on his own. He must learn leadership on his own. He must become part of a Patrol on his own. He must enter the outdoors on his own. (Note: Others may teach him but he still must decide to use these Methods himself.) He will benefit from Uniforming in many different ways. The uniform will become an equalizer for him. He might be in the same Patrol as Scout A and Scout A may teach Scout B some tricks on cleaning and caring for the uniform while on campouts. Scout A may be able to share with Scout B some Scouting skills necessary for him to make it on his own while camping in the woods for a week. Both Scouts will learn Patrol spirit while deciding on the types of adventures together. Both Scouts might become friends, meaning that few other methods would have brought their friendship together. Both Scouts will then become symbols of a world wide movement that has brought out good things in people over many years simply because they identify with each other through the one Method of Uniforming. Lets take one more Scout. Scout C is in a Troop that has decided that the shirt is enough. The Scouts in his Troop have little money and little access to jobs, so the decision is more practical than one born from embarrassment of the uniform. Is this Troop engaged in the method of Uniforming? The answer can only be no. Harsh answer and terrible person you say? Let me explain. Uniforming is an intermediate goal not a short-term goal. Nobody is saying that the uniform must be purchased upon joining. At the same time, when a unit says that they have made a decision contrary to what the BSA prescribes to be the full uniform, then they have quit on one necessary Method. Tell me, Obe Won, what could they possibly do to make it so? Lets take each solution in order. 1. Make a payment plan and purchase one item at a time over a period of years. 2. What resources are available? Scout C happens to know Scout B that has lots of money and is going to throw his old uniform away. So, recycle uniforms. 3. The District may want to recycle old uniforms. 4. The Council may want to recycle old uniforms. 5. Pool money and purchase one uniform for one Scout at a time. 6. onward and upward, I will leave it up to you to fill in the blanks for the next one thousand ways to obtain uniforms. By the way, Scout C has gotten a scholarship to the Jamboree. Scout A and Scout B will be in his patrol. Remember, this is a growth process not a short-term goal. If there is a plan in place, can the Troop that Scout C is in now claim Uniforming as a Method that they are doing? Sure. FB

Eamonn, There is really only one argument here and you have resolved it well. I want to thank you for your help. your brother in Scouting, FB

Eamonn, I stand corrected. I apologize for the insinuations. I apologize for my rude behavior. I was wrong. Fuzzy Bear

BW, Eamonn did not specifiy the edition of the BSHB. I don't think you get to set the rules in this one. FB

JD, Friendly. I think that is the top one. FB

Rave, possibly a Rant, it had characteristics of both. It may have been too close to call.