Fuzzy Bear

Eamonn, What do you purpose to bring in the other 70-80%? Obviously what is happening is not working. You imply that you have an answer or a strong criticism, probably the latter. I am interested in hearing it. BW Your question implies that you are ready to provide the administrative funding and support needs to run the Council that provides program to 20% of the available youth. I am not defending a number but I am attempting to say that when quality program is the main thrust, then all other costs must be reduced so actions and expenditures are directed toward the one goal. I see the football, soccer, basketball, baseball programs run mostly by volunteers with very little administrative costs. I think it could be done in Scouting as cheap with even more interesting year round programs. But then, it is just a thought. FB

Eamonn, I apologize for not properly operationalizing program quality for a five year period. (*I know that I do not have each specific element to fully make it so but bear with me.) This is a top down, bottom up approach. The Council must first agree that most of their efforts, time and money will be expended on program. The Council must agree to increase the quality and number of activities that any unit can engage in year round at the Council Camp. This includes available staffing of activities and well maintained equipment. The Council and District Training committees must agree that they will increase the number of trained volunteers by a magic number. They must stress program in all of their training. Additional film clips of Council Camp and unit activities should be added. The Commissioner Service must buy into increasing service to units to insure that units know about good program and how to properly access it. *As I said before there must be an incentive element to increase Commissioner effectiveness in delivering the message to the units. Some type of special awards might be used. The Districts must buy into the approach by understanding that they are to do their jobs using the Skills of Leadership and not depend on units to staff and run their events. This would mean fewer events but better run events and ones that would support the units. The units must have an incentive to increase their efforts to have good program. One of the incentives would be to demonstrate how good program can assist Scouts in reaching, First Class and then Eagle; this is already one goal that you said most units want, so the Council will be able to assist them. If good Program actually works and I strongly believe it does, then the outcome of a five year effort to turn a Council around in the area of program would be to increase membership by 90%. This would not bring the number to 100% of the total available youth but closer to 35% to 55% instead of the present figure of 20%. This number is still low but there are other activities in the community that have demonstrated program effectiveness and have been imbedded long enough that it will take a longer period to convince them otherwise. It should also be recognized that doubling the size of the population will bring about other problems. FB

I looked up some of the past posts. Nobody knows. National doesn't want people to go out of council so advertising is limited. Most know of a few camps that they are familiar with and others feel it is a matter of taste or the kind of program you are searching for today. So, there must not be an Internet website if others say so. It is just hard to believe there isn't. FB

Eammon, I am not trying to convince you about program and membership being interrelated, although my argument is presented as such. I see that you say you don't understand when you are actually disagreeing, which is perfectly acceptable. In your earlier post, you said Districts were missing 70% when 80% is the figure if we are reaching 20% (*since I know you can subtract, you may be referring to an undisclosed figure). You then make the intimation that you would take numbers over Eagles. My argument is in response to that. Once again, I do not see where troops are acquiring Eagles in vast numbers. Your statement infers that is their present task. If that is their task, then the numbers of Eagles do not reflect their efforts. (*depending on the council or if you have a high number of LDS units) You reverse field by agreeing that you believe that program is the answer to our woes. Then you go on to list those many benefits of good program. I agree that too many District activities are bad. I want QUALITY events not quantity. I am pushing for people to use their resources and not take away from unit leadership to staff events. If a District activity is run using the skills of leadership, then I propose that there would be a turn in the meaning of what a District event means to both Scouts and Scouters. Increasing budget on Council camps means that units then can use them for quality activities more times in the year. It will no longer be used once a year. If is built with various activities in mind, then it will be a camp worth visiting. Increasing Quality in the Commissioner Corps is always a concern. I could list a whole set of problems but the incentives for a Commissioner to effectively assist a unit in achieving quality program are low or do not exist. I am saying that if a Council decided that quality program was the priority, then everyone would be asked and rewarded for achieving such a lofty goal. As far as OJ reaching Eagle (I am sure it is his Father's wish), I think that I know an answer. Your last statement is about Troops with 50 Scouts having adventures versus Troops that work on reaching Eagle and yet you still ascribe it to the efforts of membership. I am the one that is confused now. FB (This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

scoutldr, Then we need a leader with the fortitude to strap a hefty gas tax of $4.00 per gallon onto what ever price exists and use that excess to develop what ever option their brother-in-law has invented in their garage to give us a new people mover. FB

Eamonn, I about busted a gut over your Cold Turkey feature item. They should have interviewed you. Thicker skin would be the order of the day. In the future, you need to only let him Return Thanks after dinner while everyone's heads are bowed and eyes closed. That would get two birds with one shot. FB (This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

Eamonn, I would cast my ballot to increase program quality by 90% over the next five years. I would ask Council to back it up with more money expended on council camp programs and the Districts to back it up with better planning, preparation, and staffing of all District activities. I would ask SM's and CC's to back it up with excellent support for all unit campouts and events. I would ask the training committee to make sure that all leaders are well trained and the Commissioner Staff to make sure that all units are trained and operating effectively. The private sector knows that program draws a crowd. It is time that Scouting did the same. As far as Eagle Scouts go, well if that is the goal, then we already know of that failure rate, 95%. As far as drawing a crowd, 20% hasn't done it. Let's try the next best approach, good program and stick with it. FB (This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

JohnD, You ideas are wonderful and could be used to better Scouting in your area. Equipment sharing would be considered helpful by many units, especially the new ones. The song CD would be great fun and could be used in many ways. For those of us that lack musical talent, a CD sing-a-long would be just the item needed for so many occasions. I do like OGE's request for you to attend Woodbadge. I think you would fit in nicely. As for a list of Eagle Projects, there is another project all by itself. Fuzzy Bear

I believe will you find general agreement that gossip is wrong. Stopping it can only be achieved one person at a time and with good examples set as you say you are doing. My secondary thoughts on this subject are to define gossip as a way to commend someone by putting another person down. Lack of recognition, lack of acceptance, lack of engaging others in planning may engender the type of gossip that you speak of. The rational approach would be to survey the last two District Dinners to find if only a few or many are being recognized and for what actions. By spreading the recognition/power/positions/leadership around is one way to insure that there are too many to speak of during the parking lot visitations. It wont stop it but it will redirect efforts to more worthy pursuits. FB

In all of the years that I have eaten meals in Scout Camps, I have yet to be interviewed. If I were to be interviewed about the prayer, I most likely would have responded that it generally intruded very little with the meal. Most prayers are short recitations that allows me plenty of time to eat, sing and go back for seconds when available. I am glad for the young man that he has so little to deal with and is now in a satisfactory setting. I don't share his sentiments. FB

boleta, I know you are waiting on MikeF's reply but the kids that you are speaking about are "normal" kids. They have a lack of discipline and they act accordingly. That is a different problem. (*as you wrote about them) I have knowledge in the area of disabilities and I deal with these individuals. I find that the answers are not always evident but experience and knowledge does help. As far as having two sets of standards for a unit that has disabled Scouts that should not be the case. Disabilities range in severity and type (physical, emotional, mental). I was addressing the safety issue as being paramount in making choices for inclusion. It is also the easiest way to know if an individual should be included. I would not encourage two sets of standards for behavior. The Scout Oath and Law are to be observed by everyone in the Troop and if a person cannot abide by those standards then there will need to be extra help given to accommodate that individual from outside the unit before they will be included. I want to give one example. It came up several years ago when a young person wanted to be a Scout but was wheelchair bound. The Mother wanted her son to be pushed by another Scout when the Troop went on hikes. This particular unit either went backpacking where the area was not accessible or went to areas where there were few accommodations for her son. The Mother was adamant about including her son. The leader said that until the areas they traveled were accessible and had accommodations, then he could not be involved. If she would have pushed the issue, the unit would have not been able to go to places the Scouts wanted to go and it would have defeated the program for the majority. It is important to know about the disability and to know the functional limitations to determine if the person can function within the unit, event, or set of standards. It is important to set these guidelines for being involved to maintain safety in any of those three areas. Now there is extra work in figuring out if the child can maintain within the parameters of the unit but it does not mean that the expectations of Scouting should be destroyed. The attempt to include those individuals is important to those individuals and if done successfully, you will find a new definition for the word appreciation. FB

I work everyday with youth that have various abilities (i.e., disabilities). I understand what boleta is saying about his son having part of his time in camp ruined by a person with a disability. I read the entries in this column and the struggle that confronted MikeF's Scout. My own assessment of MikeF's Scout prior to the final decision was for the Dad to be in attendance if the Scout was to go. I would have pointed out the safety factor involved in taking a Scout up on a mountain ledge and him not follow instructions. The Dad would need to be in attendance to help with giving directions. Safety is always the first consideration when attempting to follow the ADA in any situation. Boleta's son might have had his time ruined by a Scout that was intent on not following directions and the leader might not have had safety as the first consideration but rather participation. There is a balance that is not well defined but adults are expected to be able to know their own abilities, the abilities of the Scout and the danger of the situation. This is not an easy task but is a task of importance. MikeF's Scout has had many days ruined in his own life by people that do not understand him and that are afraid of him. Some find it easier to shun, discriminate and push such an individual away without any consideration at all. Philmont might be the one highlight for this young man in his entire life. Boleta's son may find it easier to experience high adventure where there is little interference from such an individual. His tolerance for diversity may be limited and it might be the best alternative for him. Hopefully, his son is healthy and will find many opportunities in his lifetime for good and happy experiences. Inclusion is a relatively new concept and one that takes problem solving to new heights. Safety is important and participation is important but the Leader and other Scouts need to know that if that individual is included and does make it through the event that they may be instrumental in providing part of the only happiness that person may experience for their lifetime. It is that important and the task completion is worth its weight in gold. I state this without reservation. FB

I did not post about two pages ago when I should have. I wanted to react to Eagle's reply about whether this topic is a two party question or is it a collective question that we as a people are working on. The answer is that this (Philmont) is not a one event problem that has signaled a danger and now we are presently confronted with it. This issue has gone on for years and both political parties and the folks at home have battled over it continuously. When I say "SUV" people it means people driving gas guzzling automobiles without a thought about this issue. Look around. If your town, city, metropolis does not have thousands of these gas guzzlers on the streets, then I would have to believe that you don't live in the U. S. A. The problem at Philmont is but a pimple when compared to the larger festering problem of energy usage/waste. Do we have an answer? No. Are people evil because they are ignoring the problem? Yes. Ignoring a problem is called in Christian parlance "sins of omission". Would Christians see the energy problem as a sin, it depends on the denomination. I would encourage you to survey their parking lot on the one day of the week that they use their huge air conditioned buildings to see the color of their political leanings and religious message. At the turn of the century it was predicted that NYC would be two miles deep in horse manure if there was not a replacement. Was people evil that drove a team of horses? I would imagine the discussion centered on if a family of two drove a team of horses or used a surrey with the fringe on top with one horse. I am sure that it was an issue for some while others went about their daily deliveries without a thought. Most were waiting on Henry Ford to deliver them from evil. I came out of the sixties where energy was one of the top political arguments. The world was coming to an end and we would all die of toxins and air pollution or the world would lose its temperature and go into a deep freeze or the atmosphere would lose its ability to keep the sun's radiation from frying us into a cancerous heap. Some of these things are beginning to look like they are true. Since I work with people with disabilities, I come in contact with some of the victims. As the number grows, so will the concern. Being proactive hasn't worked. Name calling doesn't work. Be frustrated doesn't work. I am left hoping that Henry will return. FB

Twocubdad, You don't need permission to follow through with an answer that you have already thought out. Good luck on this next year with the Bears. It is a great program. FB

FOG, Your behavior puzzles me because of your persistence and defiance of reason after being warned to modify your behaviors. Free speech has boundaries and obviously you have reached them as they exist here. You posted 2,811 times as FOG, plus 422 as yaworski, and you have other names that I am unsure how to add to the list, so you must have a huge amount of free time to spend on the computer. There are so many other sites that you could post on and yet you are drawn to this one specific site. Based on that information, I guess you will miss being here. I must also believe several things about you and your personal life, none are good. I truly wish I could do otherwise. FB

True to his word.

From the Scoutmaster Handbook, Chapter 4, The Boy-Led Patrol: "... patrols may also set out on day hikes, service projects, and overnighters independent of the troop and free of adult leadership as long as they follow two rules: the Scoutmaster approves the patrol activity, the patrol activity does not interfere with any troop function. A patrol activity without adult supervision should be allowed only when it has been thoroughly planned and the Scoutmaster is satisfied that the activity is well within the patrol members' levels of training and responsibility."

I have been collecting Scout books since 1980. I keep away from patches because of the volatile market valuations. I personally understand the collecting bug or "addiction" that tempts people into paying more for an item than it is worth. For those that have reached a certain saturation point or if they have limited what they are collecting, then it is easier for them to decline but not so for others. What I can offer to the discussion in the way of deciding if the limited patch offerings are good or bad is that it can be considered a way to play on a person's addiction. In other words, some cannot decline no matter what the reasoning. It is wrong to set the circumstances for those individuals so that they will pay a high price when something has so little real value. The Beanie Baby craze was exactly that kind of marketing ploy that "extorted" money from unsuspecting customers with a strong penchant to collect. Now, an individual might conclude that the person buying should be aware of such schemes but I feel that the onus is really on the seller. I realize that my little moralizing won't stop Scouts from continuing with their patch craze because it is "easy money". I realize that people who are addicted won't stop buying worthless items no matter what the circumstance. The worth of an item is really an issue of the worth of the individuals own heart. We discuss God and religion allot here on this forum because, as humans, we are drawn to search our soul for God. Religion to me is who we are inside. The truth of God is not what Bible verses we carefully select to quote but how we act toward others. A salesperson that has a good product and is proud to share and sell it to others at a fair price, to me, would be considered good. FB

You may want to consider being a Unit Commissioner. You can use your magic where it will do the most good. He will move on and then you can ease back into something else. FB

John Wayne tried the Barry Sadler routine in his movie, The Green Berets. It was a horrible movie but I still liked it because of the song. It was part of the legend that some were trying to make but just didn't know where to go with it all. If he did kill someone and then himself, I am sure we still don't know what to make of it. I always thought of his song as being who he thought he was or who he wanted to be. Maybe he was for a brief and shining moment. FB

eaglewings, Your name implies strength when it is needed. Cub Scouting is just having FUN. Look at the Program Helps. Gather those people that will around you for one evening, for one hour to talk about Cub Scouting. Of course, these people should be adults because the Cubs need little convincing. Have some food and coffee and punch. Let them know your intentions which is not (first )to have a Cub Pack but (first) to have the most enjoyable bang-up time that any group of kids and adults could have anywhere, anytime and do it for as little money as possible. Let them know what the theme will be at the next Pack meeting and let them see some of your own handiwork. Prepare some costume or implements of fun that you yourself have constructed. Let them know that you are ready. Now then, it is their decision to include you with your costume or to send you Packing. If they decide that Cub Scouting is FUN and they want to lend a hand by doing the second thing on the agenda (Cub Pack leaders) then it is a deal. You are there to be a part of the FUN and if there is no support, FUN can happen to another bunch some other place. It is their decision. The ultimatum of FUN has been thrown down! FB

Should we all be wearing our berets now while we type? FB

He needs to know how gratefull everyone is that he got home alive. FB

OGE, The 70's red beret came after the Green Berets of the 60's elite jungle fighters in VN. FB

Note: People write much more and do a better job of writing when the antithesis to their thesis is available. It is a type of Hegalian dialogue that spirals off into space. Without our nemesis, we quickly disintegrate and have little to say or we speak to ourselves and those answers are well known to the author. FB