fred johnson

Elementary schools have packs and Girl scout troops. Do any packs ever routinely and regularly invite Girl Scout troops from the same elementary school to their pack activities? Just curious

Wow. I didn't expect much thought, but did realize the total disdain. CalicoPenn - I meant involvement versus service because we have many service projects ... building picnic tables, train clean up, etc. But Scouts just are NOT visible much in the community anymore. Groups chartering scouts barely know they exist. Schools and cities with scouts often have citizens asking if scouts exists anymore. It's interesting and sad to see. I am not big on the awards part of JTE either and it is mentioned so often that I get rather sick of it too. And I really don't care if our scouts have a quality patch on their shoulder or not. But it's a BSA program to evaluate troops, districts and councils. I was just thinking BSA should have a measure for how much scouts are trying to be visible and involved in their community. Not just service. Think of it as presence or involvement.

Related to growing membership, a friend shared a discussion he had with others. It came down to ... Why doesn't JTE also have a Community Involvement measure ? We want the community to support scouting, but scouting does not seem to support the community as much except through Eagle projects. It was raised as part of membership growth. Scouting is way less visible than it was 50 years ago. People just don't know scouts exists as before. And when they see scouts, they are selling. What about giving back to the community? What about being visible in the community? Suggestion .... BRONZE ... While in uniform, perform two service projects. One for a local school. One for your charter organization SILVER ... (In addition to bronze requirements) ... While in uniform participate in a community event (fair, parade, city event, etc) GOLD ... (In addition to silver requirements) ... Organize scouting participation in a community event that scouts did not participate in the previous year BSA's vision includes citizenship. But if you don't measure it, do you really value it?

I've been in a similar situation. City with more troops than packs and the packs not creating enough Webelos to sustain the troops. Plus, the city has two or three troops that recruit hard and draw many scouts ... and lose many too. IMHO, eight scouts with many older ... you are going to lose scouts just because it's too small and below critical mass. If it was a startup with the energy of "We're going to grow", then fine. I'd look for a way that your scouts who you serve can land safely and continue in scouting as long as they want with a good experience. I'd recommend partnering or merging with another troop. Your juniors will be gone in a year. It's really the other few scouts who you need to serve and serve well.

That is 100% correct. And then add to also encourage and discuss future advancement. The BOR is not at all about making sure the scout knows a specific skill or answer. That's water over the dam. He's already been evaluated and was passed. It's about improving the troop and improving the scout's experience with the troop.

Agreed. Mix it up. Some low tech. Some high tech. Some "What ifs". Mix it up also about technical details (rules, paperwork, etc) versus philosophy versus how to run a program. Here's a great video that I'd use during the presentation ... It's from BSA and it's about three minutes ... Tracking advancement ... Stick to the main official stuff. Scout handbook. Blue Cards. BSA online advancement. Teach them how to use each or at least introduce. I'd avoid TroopMaster or other tools as they just duplicate what must be done. I'd mention the other tools, but don't waste too much time. There are many scouters like myself who believe TroopMaster does way more damage than it helps. Teach them how to get the answers for themselves ... BSA Guide To Advancement. Teach them about Ask Andy, BSA Advancement News, Scouter.com, MeritBadge.com and other useful sites where you can learn more. Good luck. I think you are teaching a great course and if you do it well you can really help the future of many scouts.

This specific situation is filled with multiple grey lines. Charter org church versus their own. Scout Sunday versus regular Duty To God. Supporting the idea but not the plan. It really depends on the individual scout, but I tend to favor the scout and if they are boxed in and they need this to hit their last critical date or similar, then I'd be okay with it. I'd rather congratulate them for choosing to wear their uniform to church than to nit pick that they did not go to the charter org church. Ideally, it ​should all be moot because your scouts and your troop should have so much going on that having the bare minimum for advancement is effectively never an issue. Another way to put it is our troop has never had an Eagle scout with 21 merit badges. It's always 27, 32, 40 or more. Same with service projects. Same with activities. TANGENT ...

CalicoPenn ... You are right. Without registering with BSA, you are not a committee member. You are just a parent sitting in on committee meetings. On the flip side ... you identified a pet peeve of mine. I know some troops make it work, but I've seen a troop where every parent is either an ASM or a MC. So, they have 25+ ASMs in a troop of 40 scouts. I like the idea in that ... "We want everyone to help." I really dislike the idea in that ... "Who do the scouts work with?" They should work with other scouts or the scoutmaster. Assistants are there to relieve the scoutmaster or to assist. Too often someone gets labeled ASM and feels like they can inject and that really messes everything up. In football, we don't have a coach and then every parent is an assistant coach. We have parent boosters or helpers. But to be an assistant coach you need training and you need to know the game plan. Same in scouts. Give me a troop with SM and two or three ASMs and five committee members anyday over a troop of 20 ASMs and 20+ committee members.

Re-reading your question made me realize it can be asking from many different directions ... For the duration of an Eagle Service Project. For their whole rank. Or, someone who serves the troop working with each Life scout to make sure they have a plan to earn Eagle. Or, someone sitting on the troop committee who works a plan to get as many scouts to earn Eagle as possible. ================================================= But per a simple reading ... our troop lets the scouts work with any of the registered leaders as a coach or advisor (for the whole rank or for the project) ... or their parent or another adult they trust. We just make sure we contact that person and make sure they know the eagle process and will give good advice. For the future, if it's not a family member, we'll make sure it's a registered scouter. =============================================== KenDavid500 ... Please note that your question was excellent because it caused me to read and learn something I did not realize. BSA documents the project "coach" in the GTA section 9.0.2.9 "Eagle Scout Service Project Coach". BSA uses the term coach, not advisor. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf I learned that the district / council is supposed to assign a coach (whether from council, district or unit scouter pool) to each scout as part of approving the proposal. BSA writes in GTA 9.0.2.9 paragraph six ... "Regardless, it is considered best for the council or district to designate one for every Scout who submits a project proposal for approval. The coach should then contact the Scout and suggest a first meeting, or telephone or video conference." So ... it's "best" (not an inflexible rule) if a coach is assigned when the proposal is reviewed. Hmmm......

Yeah, it seems wrong. But when we added prizes, our fundraising tripled. Boys want to compete. They want bragging rights and the parents buy into it. It's really no different than BSA and their prize packages for selling popcorn. Goals are good, but young kids don't remember it and the parents won't get hounded by it.

To increase your fundraising, add a few prizes. ... sleeping bag, tent and a big prize of something like a Wii or a Nintendo 3DS or a...

You'll see just about anything you can imagine as an answer to your post. Packs are everywhere on this. Our pack charges $50 dues. The thought is we want families to have skin in the game for whether they are members or not. The $50 saves us money because then we know who we are rechartering and those that we are not rechartering. The rest is fundraising. The pack tries to do as many FREE things as a pack as possible even if it costs the pack $1000 as a pack (parties, events, camp outs, etc). Parents only have to pay extra for council camps. Our annual cost is about $150 per scout. So, we finances the rest with one fundraiser. After that fundraiser, we add or remove things from the schedule and plans based on how much the pack earned.

There are many scouters out there that don't care about what is documented or communicated. They want their own vision implemented. Wish you the best.

ho hum

I did find that wording interesting until I read more. The change was based on a set of public hearings on the topic. IMHO, this is the result of ugly activism as we see on this board. Yelling. Insults. Slanderous statements. It's not about a scouter not being able to be impartial as a judge. I think the use of the word "invidious" is tied more to the definition: "(of an action or situation) likely to arouse or incur resentment or anger in others." I'm betting judges heard plenty of angry opinions at those hearings, similar to the ugly words we've heard on this board. IMHO, that's one reason the word "invidious" appears. What's next? You can't be a member of AA?

Civility is a skill and a grace under fire when dealing with the low behavior others. I am not perfect, but I hope that the contributing members of this board try to avoid insults and inferences targeting the character of others. Leave low behavior to shame itself. These are important, timely and evolving topics. Treat such discussions with respect and those discussing with courtesy. For myself, I will try to do better also.

Wow. I'm upset with the situation, but pleasantly surprised with the responses. My comments are to add that Andysmom understands the roles and BOR purpose. And, I applaud her for having the guts to stop a BOR member who asks for something inappropriate during a BOR. I'd advise do NOT walk away from the BOR. If your son is there, stay in it and try to keep it on-track somewhat. Also, here's the key GTA link. Look at section 8.0.1.5. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf ======================= Many years of experience can also just be many years of doing it wrong.

Calico ... Your point is well made. From what I know, BSA's charter is mostly honorary and BSA has always had a faith component since inception. The scout law is the same as it was in 1911 and includes reverent. Even then, the charter does not give government authority to direct the message BSA communicate. ... but as others state ... we're not lawyers ... It just seems that you don't have to be a "religious organization" to be able to exercise the first amendment rights to religious expression or freedom to assemble and associate. Calico ... I do ultimately agree with you. BSA needs to change. It's not because BSA is wrong. It's because BSA is fighting a losing battle. BSA should and does have a right to manage the message they express. BSA needs to evolve their message as society is way more legalistic than it was a hundred years ago. BSA needs to stop defining right and wrong, clean and unclean. Instead, BSA should leave that to the charter organizations. BSA provides the structure and the program. The charter organizations provide the resources and the membership. If BSA wants to continue to exist as a major youth organization, it needs to evolve.

Atheists, no. I know many very noble and heart felt atheists. And I would never insult the collective group. Actually, I was being rude. I was making a personal comment toward you. That was wrong. My apologies. No, I'm using it 100% right. "... person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people ... ". You show up only to sow discord and start the same old arguments over and over again. You don't participate or add value on any other topic. Your value is sowing discord on the topic to achieve your objective. That is trolling. Because you were not posting that action on this board. You sow a single path of discord and only reappear when it's convenient to your agenda. That is sad and to brag of it is sick. Many people spend lives building up something good. You are spending a life knocking down a very very good organization to achieve an objective. It's the choice between constructive working for change or destroying to achieve an objective. ================================================ I will stop replying to you as it won't help.

Merlyn ... You still trolling around here? Wow. I can't give you credit for much, but I will give you credit for endurance. Fine line you are walking. Blanket exception for religion, but then you decide what religious expression is? Many people believe that sexual orientation is a value decision. First amendment is about "freedom". Freedom of not just "religion" but also "religious expression." ​The fact is you don't like BSA's expression. That is exactly the issue in BSA v Dale. The majority addressed the freedom for a group to decide what it wants to express and to assemble to support it. The minority focused on a specific position, non-discrimination. BSA has a major faith component. It's not a church, but it does have a faith component. Always has. Always will. Even if BSA eventually admits atheists.