fred johnson

Fully agree. I've seen three of my sons in Boy Scouts. The one I was most impressed was the patrol that formed by my son and his friends and stayed together for seven years. That's how it should be.

LeCastor ... I know. I probably should not have made it bold red. Another person's comments trigger one of my main thoughts. If you are in BPSA and achieve everything, you still can't claim Eagle. It's Eagle that gets the attention, scholarships and military rank advancement. I can see people wanting to mix and match because of that. The George Washington award may be just as good, but it's completely unknown except as a book award or a George Washington Carver award. I was just thinking it's fine to be in either or both. We just can't make it a cafeteria scouting program where we pick and choose what we want. We can be leaders in both, but when working for one ... you are in that one. ............... "Adult leaders" ... Fully hugely agreed. I also hate the terms Scoutmaster and Cubmaster. Guide, advisor, coach or mentor seems to better describe the role. IMHO, "master" and "leader" derails the intent before learning the details.

The one thing that I really like out of BPSA is that all their documents are available online as PDF files. That's how it should be. We are currently debating in the pack whether to stop buying Cub Scout handbooks: tiger, wolf, bear, etc. Sadly, they are rarely used these days. Very similar for the Boy Scout handbook. The Boy Scout handbook used to be a source of all knowledge. Now, it seems shallow and like a comic book. My sons 2005 Boy Scout handbook seemed much more day-to-day usable than the current handbook. The current one "looks great", but it is far less useful. It's actually what I like about the older scout books. They were much more reference and learning oriented. The current one is introduction and fluff.

BPSA ... Bio-Process Systems Alliance? http://www.bpsalliance.org/ Bicycle Products Supplier Association? http://bpsa.org/ British Pharmaceutical Students Association? duckfoot has it right. .... ====================== As for dual membership, we "the adult leaders" could be registered in both. But when we work with a specific set of scouts, we need to create an organization up front that is either BSA or BPSA. Then, follow those rules and stick with it. It would only be WRONG to run it as a BPSA organization and then use the BSA advancement program or eventually credit a scout with earning the BSA Eagle scout rank. You want a scout to earn Eagle, he should be in a BSA organization. You want him to experience some "traditional" program that you can't do as a BSA leader, then have him in a different organization.

Cupcakes would be applicable under .... IRS publication 535 on business expenses (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p535.pdf) .... IRS publication 526 on charitable contributions (http://www.irs.gov/publications/p526/) depending on whether you are expensing the cupcakes or accepting the cupcakes as a donation. You may also have other tax advantages depending on glueten free, sugarcane source and whether the cupcakes are being donated as relief to a natural disaster. ... since we're going over the top on the subject ...

I dropped the "NOT". ... if you are not legally structured correctly ...

... thank goodness the IRS takes an understanding approach to smaller groups. ... or at least a hands off because the group is too small approach. If you are not legally structured correctly, you owe taxes when you sell stuff. Popcorn. Wreaths.

My favorite so far ... http://soarol.com

Another aspect is that fundraising is not supposed to be the primary focus of the Eagle project. I say that because the $750,000 probably includes installation. If the project is to raise $750k and then pay a company install it, it is not a good project. It would be a good project if the $750,000 is for materials. And then, you, your fellow scouts, friends and family put the physical effort in to install it. The project focus would then be on how you coordinated your volunteers and led the project to completion. Though I admire your ambition, I'd re-scope my project into something that is a stretch but more managable in size

I hate being the bad guy ... How far away is the nearest other healthy pack? Is it a 5 minute drive? A 10 minute? A 30 minute? I say this because though you can and should recruit, recruit, recruit, you also have to think about what is best for your boys. Though you can have a good experience with a small pack, you generally need a critical mass to create the common scouting experience. You could always have your pack meet as a sub-part of another pack until you have enough members. Just remember to spend as much time creating a great experience for your sons as you spend trying to fix a hard situation.

Interesting IRS comment ... Getting an EIN - Purpose - Tax reporting. http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...r-(EIN)-Online Filing for Tax Exempt Status? It’s best to be sure your organization is formed legally before you apply for an EIN. Nearly all organizations are subject to automatic revocation of their tax-exempt status if they fail to file a required return or notice for three consecutive years. When you apply for an EIN, we presume you’re legally formed and the clock starts running on this three-year period.

Ya know ... BSA has started publishing more. It's consistent with what I've learned over the years. It's just relatively new that BSA is commenting more on the financial side. Fiscal policies and procedures http://www.scouting.org/filestore/mission/pdf/Fiscal_Policies_Procedures_BSA_Units.pdf Scout accounts and fundraising http://www.scouting.org/filestore/financeimpact/pdf/INDIVIDUAL_SCOUT_ACCOUNTS_AND_FUNDRAISING_BY_BSA_UNITS_20140226.pdf Getting an EIN - Purpose - Tax reporting. http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-%26-Self-Employed/Apply-for-an-Employer-Identification-Number-(EIN)-Online I'm sure BSA does not provide more because every state is different. The charter org entity greatly affects the tax status. It's just not a simple topic and there is significant liability for doing it wrong.

Pack - $50 dues. Annual cost is about $150 per family. Almost everything paid by pack and funded through unit fundraiser. Very little additional cost to families. Troop - $75 dues. Annual cost is about $700. $30 per weekend camp, 10 of them. $275 for summer camp week. Scouts pay for each camp outs, but can reduce their cost by selling in the fundraiser.

SeattlePioneer ... This tangent started because you indicated Florida requires a vote. I'm just pointing out that it gets way way more complex than you probably intend when we start bringing such issues in. Our pack also transferred bank accounts recently from a long established one to a new bank. The new bank very quickly routed us to creating an EIN. I was surprised by that but I can easily believe the IRS wants better tracking. The issue is that an EIN means you are an entity now. You need to file tax returns. You need to regularly declare your tax exempt status. Even more, there is confusion. jblake47 is right when he asks ... who signs the annual unit BSA charter paperwork ??? If it is the CO, you have redundant EINs and the bank account should have been created under that EIN. If you become large enough such as a band or sports booster club, you could have real issues here. --------------------------------------------------------------- BSA is very vague as this is complex and BSA could get into trouble if they advise badly on business issues. It is intentional. Work with your charter organization and/or their attorney / accountant. It's also one reason we liked our 20+ year old checking account. When we tried to open a new one recently, the bank wanted an EIN and many other pieces of info. So we kept our old account. BSA provides a structure for running a youth program. BSA does not provide the business infrastructure. That's why you have charter partners. That's what they provide.

I've been in a pack where parent paid for special advancements (belt loops, pins, etc) and another where they did not. I can't say which I prefer. Collecting extra $$ from parents is more work and discourages official recognition. Pack paying has a few families more than doubling the annual advancement budget without doing any more work than other kids. It's just they are claiming more advancements. We have one family that each year has incurred at least $50 per kid for belt loops and pins ... EACH YEAR. When most dens (except Webelos) just have rank advancements, that is a huge imbalance. It is a real financial hit. 25 academic plus 31 sports ... times ... belt loop plus pin ... at $1.89 each. $211 total. If every kid pursued them, we would need to more than double our annual dues. I'd be okay with parents paying, but it is a lot more work for pack leaders to track the $$$. ======================== What I'd rather see is academic and sports awards be handed out at the den meetings. Our pack meetings are overwhelmed now with advancements. I'd like to see it shortened somehow. Not sure how, but it should be. We have at least 15 min of awards each meeting.

They are two different topics. ---- Do you ever cancel? ---- Do you allow lousy events? "Generally", I agree with the you never cancel. But I also apply the mantra to that we don't schedule/announce an event until we have committed leaders and a plan. If the leaders are not committed, we don't schedule the event. I'd apply that to training, camporees or anything else in life. Plan to do it well or don't plan to do it. But once you commit and others become committed, deliver the best program possible. So if the camporee has three troops, you can still have a great camporee. If you only have 25 people at training, you can still do great training. It just looks different. Plans change and evolve. But you don't need to sacrifice quality. The trouble with canceling events is that people will start to not believing you. They will hedge their commitments too. And they will find other commitments.

A vote by whom? The governing association is the charter organization. Your pack/troop does not exist except under their umbrella ... unless you are chartered by a "parents of unit ###" type organization. It begs the question ... are your committee members automatically voting members of the charter organization? Sometimes ... you just need to ... do your best ... smile ... and move onto the next topic.

I would not sweat it that much. Mistakes like these create the teachable moments that help our scouts grow. How to plan. How to work together. Knowing the plan before just marching forward. Not leaving things for other people to solve. - Where was the menu? Where was the shopping list? - Did they know their budget? In our troop, 5 scouts would have a budget of $50 to $60. We would also resolve if it was purchasing for five or purchasing for six scouts. That is a $10-12 budget difference. - We let the patrol divide up the extra food among themselves. They effectively paid for it. They didn't eat it. So they get it. As long as a member doesn't plan for that and plan to bring home extra cookies or pop-tarts. Thus protecting them from being eaten during the weekend. BUT ... that is also a teachable moment. ============================== We once had a family that had been in the troop for a year do their first food purchase. Scout was slightly spacey. Told his dad they were buying food. Just didn't mention "patrol" (seven) versus "troop" (30 camping). Boy was there extra.

CalicoPenn ... Each group feels strongly about their procedures. If yours work for you, great. Here's our reasoning. Scout accounts ... We'll always have them and they are either positive or negative. Just too much happens that requires us to know if we owe the scout funds or the scout owes us funds. Paid for a trip but canceled before deadline. Went on camp out and troop covered an unknown cost such as ammunition for shooting sports. Scout accounts help us explain the details of the finances and make sure we don't lose money. Two signatures ... We solve this thru transparency. It's all visible. No receipt ... We'll reimburse as long as we can confirm through evidence or reason-ability that it happened. We want to support our volunteers. If they incurred a cost, we want to reimburse them. $150 limit ... We ask they be cleared with another person (treasurer or committee chair). Debit cards ... We find these invaluable. There are some things that we can't do without significantly extra work. Reserve a state park. BSA local council camp reservations. Summer camp advancement purchases. I see no difference between a debit card and a check. Both need transparency and need to be watched.

Ya know I can't say anything bad about our local scout executive. Good guy. My only surprise is that he's been the SE for as long as I've known what a SE is. I really thought SE's were supposed to turn over every ten years or so.

qwazse is right ... moisture control. I also believe 20-40F is more dangerous than -10 to 20. ... read his post. The only thing I'll add is that I like a really loose soft knit hat for at night. I only use a mummy bag when it's significantly below zero. For anything above that, I use a normal bag with a liner and a nice soft knit hat. I do that only because I roll in my sleep and I've had a few times where I'm facing the wrong way in the mummy bag and I really really hate waking up like that.

The parents only option then is to drive in the application or NOT be a leader. Period. As with any other parent, they could still help with some smaller supporting roles and preferably those that do NOT interact with scouts. But they can't be a registered leader. Let them bake cupcakes or umpire a kickball game. Just don't have them be the "leader" who is there for safety and to make sure it's a BSA program. ALSO ... as I am a leader responsible for the whole unit ... my radar would be raised if I had someone volunteering but did not want to provide SSN. ( ... Radar yes, but not an alarm ...) I'd be okay if they provided it to the council and then I saw their registration added to our scouting unit ... especially as I can respect their caution with their personal info. But if I ever have a leader that just does not want to be registered ... then we need to respect their wish and act accordingly ... which means not using them as a leader and not having them guide activities with the kids. ... The registration serves multiple purposes ... back ground checks ... indicates who is to be trained ... serves as a signed commitment to follow BSA policies and procedures.

Agree that it sounds like you are doing it correctly. We don't do it that way. We've had trouble with those kits being poorly manufactured and the beads just don't stay on. Other scouts also leave the kits hope or other. The frustration led to us eventually just not using them. Sad to say, but it has left the lower ranks with little recognition during the year.